AE 801 Incarnate Team Missions

[DarionLeonidas]

2 hours ago, Darmian said:

Just pop a request in to a GM via Discord or the Support option in Menu and ask 🙂 They don't want to hear about more farms though.

I don’t blame them. I don’t do farms. 🙂 Got my answer though, thanks!

[Bastille Boy]

I just ran my first successful +4/8 solo run of AE 801.2. No defeats and 24 minutes to spare. I used a Shield Defense / Energy Melee tanker. The combination of high defense, DDR, and +dam from Shield with a high single-target damage secondary makes this a powerful combination.

 

The build was based on Infinitum's Captain Starburst. I changed a bunch of things. My build (unlike the original) has a moderate psi hole, which doesn't matter for this series. I did not use Taunt or Teleport during the run. I did use inspirations (as they dropped) and lores (which are still T3, as is the Judgment power).

 

Thanks again to Linea for an interesting challenge!

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 3.0.1.9
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/Hero-Designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Arthur Ward: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(5), Ksm-ToHit+(5), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(7)
Level 1: Barrage -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mk'Bit-Dam%(11)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def(13), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 4: True Grit -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(21), UnbGrd-Max HP%(21), GldArm-3defTpProc(23)
Level 6: Teleport -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 8: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Energy Punch -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(23), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(27)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(33)
Level 18: Phalanx Fighting -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), ShlWal-Def(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(33), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(34), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(34)
Level 20: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 22: Total Focus -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mk'Bit-Dam%(37)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntCmb-Knock%(A)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(37), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Dmg(39)
Level 28: Build Up -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(39), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(40), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(40), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(40), GssSynFr--Build%(42)
Level 30: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(42), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(43), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(43), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(45)
Level 35: Power Crash -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(47)
Level 38: Energy Transfer -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(47), Hct-Acc/Rchg(48), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(48), Hct-Dam%(48)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 47: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(A)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- Rct-ResDam%(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(49)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(15), Prv-Absorb%(17), Mrc-Rcvry+(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Energy Focus
Level 1: Momentum
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Seers Total Radial Improved Ally
Level 50: Ion Total Core Judgement
------------

 

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Edited May 31, 2021 by Bastille Boy

[Linea]

Many Thanks to:  MidnightBloom, Sinaptiko, Lowflow, Prophet of Pain, Rosa Crux, Baby Biscotti, Tyrant-Chula, and Lucy Medrano ... For Successfully completing 801.F

[Linea]

Published a shorter version of 801.F  ... no time to test it today, but we'll test it soon(tm).

 

[The_Warpact]

Ok just came across this in AE (yeah yeah where tf have I been).

Did 801.2 IC 6034 on my Rad/Ice tank +4×8, only have my T3 musculature unlocked.

Made it about halfway through the map before I died and actually had to goto the hospital (!!!).

Definitely taking the VG with me for alittle surprise fun. I haven't died yet on this tank so that caught me off guard, I don't use inspirations, and used Frenzy to boost my rech to keep Particle Shielding, Radiation Therapy, and Ground Zero up.

Actually used Meltdown 2x which I've never used the T9 before...ever. What a freaking blast. Thanks!

[twospirited]

On 2/16/2021 at 2:27 PM, Linea said:

•  Some of the maps are semi-random map sets, this does not apply to .2, .5, or .F maps.  The hardest actual maps are unfortunately not randomizable map sets.
• I use 801.2 as my standard proving ground.  If you can solo 801.2 +4x8 with-bosses in the time allotted, you have what I consider sufficient offense and defense to withstand pretty much anything this game can throw at you other than the cheaty stuff.
• 801.6 are larger maps requested by several players.  These can be both easier and harder than 801.5, but are almost always much longer.  I’ve been told 801.F-cit is the hardest map.  My favorite map is 801.5-k.
• 801.5 generates 2k dps sustained damage, with frequent 8k dps, and rare 15k dps spikes vs an unarmored target.  If you are not prepared to take 15k dps to the face, you may want to start with 801.0 set to  +0.
• For reference, I’ve soloed the standard difficulty 801.2 +0x0 no-bosses on SO-Only defenders, blasters, controllers, etc.  I’ve also soloed the harder versions +4x8 on my more durable full T4 IO T4 Incarnate Defenders, Scrappers, Controllers, Etc.  I make the assumption that if I can solo it, you can run it with a team.
• On the Extreme end, I only have one tank build that can Solo +4x8 801.C, and that under extreme duress and difficulty (and with nowhere near enough offense to finish it in time.  It takes 60+m just to clear the entry room solo).

 

holy tiny print, can this be resized for bigger pls? lol  my old eyes can't read it. even tried zooming in via browser and it's hard XD

[Linea]

If you can quote it, select it, or copy clip it, you can resize it inside the editor as-if you were going to post it ... but you don't have to actually post it.

Size 16:

Spoiler

•  Some of the maps are semi-random map sets, this does not apply to .2, .5, or .F maps.  The hardest actual maps are unfortunately not randomizable map sets.
• I use 801.2 as my standard proving ground.  If you can solo 801.2 +4x8 with-bosses in the time allotted, you have what I consider sufficient offense and defense to withstand pretty much anything this game can throw at you other than the cheaty stuff.
• 801.6 are larger maps requested by several players.  These can be both easier and harder than 801.5, but are almost always much longer.  I’ve been told 801.F-cit is the hardest map.  My favorite map is 801.5-k.
• 801.5 generates 2k dps sustained damage, with frequent 8k dps, and rare 15k dps spikes vs an unarmored target.  If you are not prepared to take 15k dps to the face, you may want to start with 801.0 set to  +0.
• For reference, I’ve soloed the standard difficulty 801.2 +0x0 no-bosses on SO-Only defenders, blasters, controllers, etc.  I’ve also soloed the harder versions +4x8 on my more durable full T4 IO T4 Incarnate Defenders, Scrappers, Controllers, Etc.  I make the assumption that if I can solo it, you can run it with a team.
• On the Extreme end, I only have one tank build that can Solo +4x8 801.C, and that under extreme duress and difficulty (and with nowhere near enough offense to finish it in time.  It takes 60+m just to clear the entry room solo).

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Linea

[Without_Pause]

Assumed it was rather doable on a new build, and outside of the -recharge it was. Claws/ea. No accolades, Incarnates, or inspirs. 801.0 -1/x1 no bosses. I'll come back later and try boosting the diff and see where it goes.

[Errants]

O_O

 

Humbled, and too tired to try now. Brought my main (Spines/Ice Scrap) into 801.0 at +4x8 ('cause everyone else is doing it).

Spotted by the first mob... +Per!? Nice.

Corner pull out of paranoia, only half, not bad...

BU>Spine Burst>Jump out to Throw Spines... Dead.

Holy shit.

Nice. Ow.

[Linea]

WTF Killed Me ?!?

So I'm running 801.7 with my Rad/Kat tank, and the exact same thing happened the next day with my Kat/EnA Brute ....

 

We cleared the whole map only one group left, so I say WTH "Hold my Beer!".  Things didn't go well.  What Happened?

 

We had a particularly nasty RNG spawn of Rad Blast Sniper, Cold Domination, and Trick Arrow, as well as a full support crew of Snipers, Nukes, and the works.

• Rad Blast - This guy has BU and Aim, 10 seconds of hell, not that he needs it vs Rad Armor, a resist set.  If he hits you, he can drop you to -50 defense or worse in a blink.  It might only last 10 seconds, but that's long enough if he has support to follow it up and shove a knife into the crack in your armor that he opened up.
  • Now at -50 Defense, everything, and I mean everything is going to hit you.
• Cold Domination - This guy can literally remove your enhancements, and drop you to the resist floor.
  • I'm resist and rdr capped, but that doesn't mean anything vs -special and getting your enhancements ripped out of your guts.
  • Now, I'm no longer resist nor rdr capped.  -enhance drops what was 100+% resist (capped at 90) down to the 80s.  Now not only is there a crack in my defenses, there's a crack in my otherwise impeccable resists.
  • Now at 80% resist ... those -resist debuffs that could drop an unarmored target to -300 or -400, drop me to what might as well be no resist at all.
  • Now with mid 20s resists ... I live just over a second. IF and only IF, I'm lucky.
• Trick Arrow - This guy debuffs everything, and is possibly the single most dangerous mob in the mission.  It's a shame I didn't live long enough for him to kill me. 🤕

If that isn't enough

• Disruptors are Sonic Blast designed specifically to supply additional -resist.
• The AoE support and Nukes are Beam Nukes that pack -resist as well.
• There are also rare /Rad Emission debuffers as well.

 

 

So This is Impossible !?!

No, not all.

• Support - All it took in this case was waiting for @Lummi to arrive and buff me, then support as I went all Leroy.
• Barrier - Barrier's main component is entirely too short lived.  But as it turns out, that's really all I would have needed.  However, on my resist builds I almost always run Rebirth or Ageless.
• Candy - I tried this, but didn't gobble up enough.  Barrier is the better choice. 
• And I'm sure there are other solutions ...

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Linea

[Without_Pause]

I see these advertised, but one build I have for it is still waiting to get fully T4ed. I'll look for teams once that's done.

[Linea]

WARNING:  Do not attempt 801.6 and above unless you have tried the lower difficulties and found them too easy.  +4x8 801.6 and higher generate 3.5k+ sustained dps, with frequent 10k+ spikes, and rare 20k+ dps spikes.  This is 98% Fatal to Solo Unsupported 75% resist cap ATs.

 

AE 801.6 - Redesign

For those teams that both obliterate 801.5 but also fail 801.7, I'm redesigning 801.6 to better fit between those two difficulties and present a challenge but not a failure. 

Assuming you have trounced 801.5 mercilessly, but struggle with 801.7, then search for "801.6" in AE. Have Fun Dying.

 

 

Data

tldr: Most Tanks and Brutes built to max durability should be able to solo this, ... but probably can't.

• Armored Squishies Fail Solo - Even my most durable defender only survived 10m +4x8 solo.  However, Armored controllers or dominators might do very well using "Control Is Armor", just try not to blink and/or over-aggro.
• Armored 75% resist cap AT Resist Armors -  with rdr cap will almost always fail due to 2.5x incoming damage.
• Armored 75% resist cap AT Defense Armors - with rdr cap and ddr cap may pass, but will fail if you let either rdr or ddr fail.  The same 2.5x incoming damage leaves you very little room for mistakes.
• Armored 90% resist cap AT Resist Armors - with rdr cap should pass. The builds I tested passed.  I was perma-red -50 defense, rdr capped, but survived over 30m.  An unlucky TA at the just wrong moment could in theory kill me, but never did.  But it would only take one mistake on my part to drop like a rock.
• Armored 90% resist cap AT Defense Armors - with ddr cap backed by above average resists should pass.  There were times my resist dropped dangerously, but I still survived.  There were other times my defense slipped a little, but resist stayed up, and I also survived those.  But If I really messed up and let both slip, I'm sure they could kill me.  But Unlike the squishier ATs, I'd have to try pretty hard to let that happen with the tanks.  Famous Last Words.
• I did not test any of the Heal-Tank armors, as I expect the majority of those fail in 801.5 solo.

 

• I removed blinds completely, due to design issues with the AE spawndefs.  I should probably add ONE EB encounter back in.
• I removed cannons, x-models, and other Rad/ Snipers completely. Replaced them with more distributed -defense that is a bit less likely to take that first bite.  I may need to add ONE cannon back in as well.  Cannons are very effective at Alpha stripping defense armor for a few seconds, but then letting go if you recover.   The current setup is slower to set in and take a bite, and much less likely to sustain.  The downside may be that even minor defense buffs end up being overly effective vs this design, making the missions too easy.  If that turns out to be the case I'll add a single EB Cannon back in.
• I had to back off the raw dps to help ensure Tank Resist armors passed.  This may or may not need further adjustment either direction.
• I had to rebalance -healing and -healing_received multiple times.
• I had to completely remove benumb and then /Cold altogether due to interactions with the new improved /TA.
• I had to remove /Poison as well due to interactions with /TA.
• I may have removed too much -regen.  Currently it shutsdown non-regen sets part of the time, but any +regen buffs from any source kicks regen back in.  This may need just a tiny nudge upwards to be more effective vs some non-regen sets.

 

Files

• Order and Sorting Matter.  To be able to use the files you'll need to use the command line to 'type "ic - 6041.bvg" > "ic - 6041.cvg"' while editing the cvg in-game, in order to force the spawndef order.  Otherwise it just clumps it all up alphabetically and you'll get erratic undesirable results in the spawns. 
• Even done correctly the spawns are a bit erratic as the spawndef isn't setup for this kind of group.  It iterates 'Random index, Sequential 4' over and over till it gets 16 entities.  This WILL create not entirely intended results. 

 

 

BA-45a Archer        (B) Super_Strength     (.1...56...) / Trick_Arrow        (....4.6.8.)
BA-45b Hunter        (B) Super_Strength     (.1...56...) / Trick_Arrow        (0.2....7..)
BB-45j Javelin       (B) Beam_Rifle         (.1234.67..) / Gadgets            (...3.5....)
BB-45s Resonator     (B) Super_Strength     (.1...56...) / Sonic_Debuff       (012.......)
BC-45i Storm Trooper (B) Super_Strength     (.1...56...) / Storm_Summoning    (...34.....)
BC-61e Shocker       (B) Electric_Control   (01234567..) / Gadgets            (...3.5....)
Corporal             (B) Mercenaries        (012..56...) / Pain_Domination    (....456...)
DA-53s Disruptor     (B) Sonic_Attack       (012.45.7..) / Gadgets            (...3.5....)
Engineer             (B) Beam_Rifle         (.12.4.6...) / Radiation_Emission (..23..6...)
Heavy Gunner         (B) Beam_Rifle         (.12.4.67..) / Gadgets            (...3.5....)
Marksman             (B) Assault_Rifle      (0.23...7..) / Gadgets            (...3.5....)
Operative            (B) Beam_Rifle         (.1..456...) / Willpower          (012..56...)
Ranger               (B) Beam_Rifle         (.1234.6...) / Ninjitsu           (012..5..8.)
Rifleman             (B) Assault_Rifle      (.123...7..) / Gadgets            (...3.5....)
Scout Sniper         (B) Beam_Rifle         (.1234.6...) / Ninjitsu           (012.45....)
Sergeant             (B) Dual_Pistols       (.1..4.678.) / Gadgets            (...3.5..8.)
T-31 Interceptor     (B) Savage_Assault     (.1234.6.8.) / Gadgets            (...3.5....)

 

IC - 6041.cvg ic6-6041.r220321.txt ic6-6041.r220321.7z

IC-8016-Static.storyarc

IC - 6041.bvg

cvgui.pl

Edited March 23, 2022 by Linea

[Linea]

Primary Design:
    801.6 uses a 4 div pattern since the primary spawn tech does groups of 4.   loop(Random_Index, Linear(4));  This means that since they are grouped in 4, and 4 are always picked (+4x8), then you always get the same ratio of (debuff,damage,dangerous,filler) even if the random index starts in the middle of a give set of 4, it just picks the other two missing types out of the next set.
    [(1,4,5,6), (2,4,5,6), (3,4,5,6), (8,0)]

Notes:
    There are an odd number of entries on purpose to force a shift in composition if the RNG goes wonky.  That should actually never happen due to the Random_Index called every 4 mobs.
    There are over 16 entries because 16 is standard mob size.
    There are significanlty over 16 because that's what it took to cause sufficient statistical dilution that the spawns didn't double or triple too much and just jumble into oblivion.  Note many of the other 801s use as many as 100 entries for the same purpose.  But as these are 'supposed' to be difficult, they use a lower number, and the debuffs were adjusted in-game using the combat monitor and various tank builds and hours upon hours of in-game testing.  
    801.6 passed all the Linea Armors when facing only one spawn group at a time.  Multiple spawn groups at once can still stack random jumbles of debuffs that can quickly overwhelm non-defense_armor non-Linea builds.
    TA was split in half into Archers and Hunters because it was entirely too powerful when left as a single entity.  Spliting was required for debuff dilution.
    -ddr averages 80 long term sustained, but the stormers and TA can spike that to double for short periods of time from 10 seconds to 30 seconds, every 5? minutes.
    -resist averages -25 vs 75% resist cap, but can also double for short periods of time of 30+ seconds, and in a few very rare cases spiked to -75 vs 75% resist cap for a short burst, again due to Stormers and TA.
    If you are a non-armored AT, or you neglected your ddr or rdr, you will get hit hard in your weakest spot.

Dangerous Debuffs:
    1: Hunter and Archer are extremely dangerous Debuffs.
    2: Javelin and Resonator are Dangerous Damage and Dangerous Debuff/Damage (-res is damage)
    3: Storm Trooper and Shocker, are Dangerous Debuffs.  I could have put Storm in 1, and Shocker in 2, but the pattern fills the (3,4,5,6) even if 3 is empty, so I pulled these down here for this sequence

Dangerous Damage:
    4: Disruptors are -res and damage, Mez Protected Snipers, Rangers are T9 Armored Snipers, Operatives are Snipers with Always on Armor.

AoE Damage (and to a lesser extend filler and aggro mechanics)
    5:  Gunners are AoE Damage, Sergeants are filler, Corporals are aggro mechanics.

Fillers
    6: These are all light damage.

Special
    0: Interceptor is special.  It's designed specifically to take out lightly armored fliers, but also functions as the primary always on -ddr.  If you are not heavy armor, you do NOT want to mess with this guy.  He'll drop you -100 armor and mag 10 immobilize and -fly you.  *IF* the RNG is fair, he'd never show up more than once per spawn, but the RNG is notoriously prejudiced.

Code:
        foreach ($bins[1],$bins[4],$bins[5],$bins[6],$bins[7],   $bins[2],$bins[4],$bins[5],$bins[6],$bins[7],   $bins[3],$bins[4],$bins[5],$bins[6],$bins[7],    $bins[8],$bins[0]) {
            my $tmp = pop(@{$_});
            if (defined $tmp) { $array[$#array+1]=$tmp;}
        }
        
Data:

    Bin[0] := 0
    "X-31 Interceptor",
    Bin[1] := 2
    Engineer, "BA-45b Hunter", "BA-45a Archer",
    Bin[2] := 1
    "BB-45j Javelin", "BB-45s Resonator",
    Bin[3] := 1
    "BC-45i Storm Trooper", "BC-61e Shocker",
    Bin[4] := 6
    Operative, "DA-53s Disruptor", "Scout Sniper", "DA-53s Disruptor", "DA-53s Disruptor", Ranger, Operative,
    Bin[5] := 6
    Corporal, "Heavy Gunner", "Heavy Gunner", Sergeant, "Heavy Gunner", Corporal, Sergeant,
    Bin[6] := 6
    Rifleman, Rifleman, Marksman, Rifleman, Marksman, Marksman, Rifleman,
    Bin[7] := -1

    Bin[8] := -1

    Bin[0] := -1

    Bin[1] := -1

    Bin[2] := -1

    Bin[3] := -1

    Bin[4] := -1

    Bin[5] := -1

    Bin[6] := -1

    Bin[7] := -1

    Bin[8] := -1

    Array
    "BA-45a Archer", Operative, Sergeant, Rifleman, "BB-45s Resonator", Ranger, Corporal, Marksman, "BC-61e Shocker", "DA-53s Disruptor", "Heavy Gunner", Marksman, "X-31 Interceptor", "BA-45b Hunter", "DA-53s Disruptor", Sergeant, Rifleman, "BB-45j Javelin", "Scout Sniper", "Heavy Gunner", Marksman, "BC-45i Storm Trooper", "DA-53s Disruptor", "Heavy Gunner", Rifleman, Engineer, Operative, Corporal, Rifleman,

 

[Linea]

Finally burned out my first wedding band.  It took 9 months of running multiple 801s daily, all most all of those 6 and above.  An average of less than 10s per mission, to fill in gaps.  Maybe less than half that.

[Texman]

Has anyone tested 801 content with ss/def builds (ie /shield, /ea)?  Does the rage crash def debuff screw you in the higher 801 content?