On my Shield Scrappers...

[archgemini24]

I am in need of counsel regarding my Shield Scrappers, and I figured the best place to get the most objective advice was here.

 

I currently have a Dark/Shield and Electric/Shield Scrapper as carryovers from before the Snap, and while I love them both, with the changes to powers, sets, and ATs, I am considering the previously unthinkable... stripping them both and rerolling them as a Shield/Dark Tanker and Electric/Shield Stalker. The Dark would have much greater AoE capacity because of the ToF and Tanker buffs, and the Stalker would have the single-target capacity that the Scrapper gives up for... Lightning Clap. Am I just missing something that the Scrapper versions bring to the table that warrant keeping them as such?

 

Follow-up: I really would like a Scrapper on my roster. I had 3 (these 2 and a DM/Regen). The Regen became a Brute to take advantage of the additional HP, and I just feel like I got unlucky with picking the 3 combos that sync better with other ATs. I would very much appreciate any suggestions for combinations where Scrappers are the best version.

 

Thank you.

[xl8]

It really does come down to play style. There's slight differences in the primary and secondaries beyond the obvious Assassin's Strike and Hide. For instance, with scrapper Electric/ you get a PbAoE stun and with scrapper /shield you get slight plus defense from mobs withe Phalanx Fighting. The numbers don't really hold up anymore on the res/def. They used to be much better on a scrapper, but now they're the same with scrapper's having slightly more HP. That said, the auto powers that are missing from stalker sets will give you plus 7% of whatever it is... res/def.

On paper, stalkers will always out-damage scrappers because of the stalker ATO proc. Scrappers have slightly higher base damage, but it's not noticeable.

For Regen, scrappers have quick recovery which stalkers don't, so slightly better end management.

Staff Fighting is the one power that stands out because you don't have the different stances, but even that plays better on a stalker.

Perhaps the only niche answer is Staff/Dark because you can better manage endurance and survivability, but this works better on a tank, so...

 

[ninja surprise]

Like xl8 says it comes down to play style. 

Dark Melee is indeed great on a Tank because Shadow Maul gets bumped up to 180 degree arc with like 10 targets max and it's amazing. You never have to worry about lining up the cone, just attack whatever you see and it punches everything. But you'll never one-shot something with Midnight Grasp... I still haven't tried the new Touch of Fear out. 

 

I didn't like the Stalker version of Elec/Shield because Stalkers have trouble holding aggro. With a Scrapper you can almost herd, but with a Stalker I had to chase down and defeat everything one by one. I like Lighting Clap, I six-slot it with the purple stun and a KB->KD to keep things stunned at my feet.

 

You could try out the Stalker on test, kitting it out for free to see how you like it.

[Heraclea]

Having played a Shield/Dark tanker, I can say that the power sets have strong synergy.  Dark Melee is currently in many ways the premier tanker attack set.  It benefits powerfully from the increased range and AoE potential that tankers get.  Used to be that Shadow Maul was really a single target attack that occasionally got a second mob; now it works as described, at least on tankers.  Dark Melee is also very beneficial to armor sets that lack a self-heal or have a slow self-heal. 

 

That said, are you that close to the 1000 alt limit that you need to strip and delete characters?  Even if you want to give your old names to your new characters, you can always rename your existing characters.  I've done things like given characters a concept transplant, transferring names and costumes to new characters and giving established ones new names and concepts.  Your new character will be easier to build if they have an established level 50 sugar daddy. 

 

And, while resistance sets are for tankers and brutes, defense sets shine on scrappers.  Scrappers will never get as much out of something like Invulnerability or Fire as brutes and tankers do because of their lower resistance caps.  For a defense based set like Shield, the scrapper is on an even footing as the brute.  (Tankers, of course, get better out of the box numbers either way.)  I would keep your shield scrapper one way or another.   The crits and reliable higher base damage may be missed on the tanker. 

[archgemini24]

2 hours ago, Heraclea said:

Having played a Shield/Dark tanker, I can say that the power sets have strong synergy.  Dark Melee is currently in many ways the premier tanker attack set.  It benefits powerfully from the increased range and AoE potential that tankers get.  Used to be that Shadow Maul was really a single target attack that occasionally got a second mob; now it works as described, at least on tankers.  Dark Melee is also very beneficial to armor sets that lack a self-heal or have a slow self-heal. 

 

That said, are you that close to the 1000 alt limit that you need to strip and delete characters?  Even if you want to give your old names to your new characters, you can always rename your existing characters.  I've done things like given characters a concept transplant, transferring names and costumes to new characters and giving established ones new names and concepts.  Your new character will be easier to build if they have an established level 50 sugar daddy. 

 

And, while resistance sets are for tankers and brutes, defense sets shine on scrappers.  Scrappers will never get as much out of something like Invulnerability or Fire as brutes and tankers do because of their lower resistance caps.  For a defense based set like Shield, the scrapper is on an even footing as the brute.  (Tankers, of course, get better out of the box numbers either way.)  I would keep your shield scrapper one way or another.   The crits and reliable higher base damage may be missed on the tanker. 

 

 

Quoting Heraclea, but Thank You all for your insights. Replies to various points will be all here.

 

I put together both sets on Test already, which is what prompted the OP.

 

On the Tank: While I did lose out of the fun large numbers of MG crits, running Shadow Maul, Touch of Fear, and Dark Obliteration was inspiring, and even with the Scrapper I never was able to put the DPS needed to the greatest of the Scrapper feats for some reason (and I run Smite-Siphon-Smite-Grasp). Another point for the Shield/Dark IMO was that the higher base values for Defense let me get him up to 59% for Incarnate running without too much in the way of sacrificing for other build goals. Darkest Night, OwtS, and Rebirth on top of what I had for steady-state mitigation made me feel like this is the first build my playing skills could get Linea Approved instead of just close. He didn't have Taunt, but only because I wanted OwtS instead. If I planned on teaming more than I ever actually get to, I would make the switch.

 

On the Stalker: I did not notice a substantially more chasing with the Elec/Shield Stalker versus what I experience running the Scrapper. Lightning Clap has just never appealed to me, but I am just willing to admit that is a "me" problem. Trading it for Assassin's Strike and Controlled Crits was a win all the way around for me, but I admit I did not feel as significant a change in playing between the Stalker and Scrapper than the Tanker and Scrapper.

 

I am also no where near 1000 slots, but the biggest reasons I was thinking of strips was because I was concerned the Scrappers collecting dust once the Tanker and Stalker were finished. My Market Fu is weak to the point where kiting out their replacements would be far less fun than just dealing with the "shortcomings" of the Scrappers. Anything easily acquired with Converters is fine, but I am trash at flipping to get the INF needed for AT IOs and Purples. Oddly enough, that is probably the easy part, and I just need to get over my hording and be willing to sell stuff.

 

All that said, I will likely roll the Tanker (probably the Stalker, but that one is a bit iffier), get them to 50, and see how far I can get them with what I know I can do without the super-high-end enhancements.

[xl8]

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Just saw your edit.

Ofc you should roll a Titan/anything scrapper as TW isn't available to stalkers. Titan/Bio was fotm, but /rad and /sr are also very good.

[Hjarki]

10 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

But you'll never one-shot something with Midnight Grasp... 

Midnight Grasp can take 6 procs on a Tanker and the 15 sec recharge means they essentially auto-proc. So that's something like 420 damage before the ability does it's own damage.

 

[Riverdusk]

19 hours ago, xl8 said:

---

Just saw your edit.

Ofc you should roll a Titan/anything scrapper as TW isn't available to stalkers. Titan/Bio was fotm, but /rad and /sr are also very good.

 

Or war mace if you don't like the feel of TW.   I honestly prefer stalkers most of the time over scrappers now a days, but war mace is amazing and it isn't available for stalkers either.  

[MTeague]

The advantage for Scrapper to me?

1. Nobody really expects me to tank.
2. They all expect me to scrapperlock. 

[archgemini24]

23 hours ago, MTeague said:

The advantage for Scrapper to me?

1. Nobody really expects me to tank.
2. They all expect me to scrapperlock. 

 

I actually really feel this. Even most PuGs I run with really only need someone willing to eat the alpha, so either Scrapper can run point with just Against All Odds with little problem (plus the Electric starts most fights by blowing up most of the spawn, anyway). I know the Tanker could, as well, but knowing Tanking is more about about tactics than powers, I still felt some of the weight of expectation of having to have Taunt instead of just using Gloom to grab a runner.

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by archgemini24
Clarity