Mind Control/Mass Confusion recharge needs a buff

[Super Atom]

Just now, Mezmera said:

 

If I can do it so can you is the gist of what I'm saying.  How easy do you want this game to become?

 

I don't know how else to explain to you that it isn't about in game ability or skill levels. At this point, you're either trolling or just intentionally being insulting.

[Mezmera]

5 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

 

I don't know how else to explain to you that it isn't about in game ability or skill levels. At this point, you're either trolling or just intentionally being insulting.

 

I see, the old "troll" defense.  Well you have a good day then.  

[ScarySai]

I think people who want to nerf seeds are totally in the wrong here.

 

I think slashing mass confusions CD and turning Telekinesis into some Jean gray level mass murder would be more than enough to fix mind without neutering other sets.

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

I think people who want to nerf seeds are totally in the wrong here.

 

I think slashing mass confusions CD and turning Telekinesis into some Jean gray level mass murder would be more than enough to fix mind without neutering other sets.

 

100% Nerfing seeds would hurt Plant far more than people seem to understand.

 

Not even a big reduction is needed either, we're talking like like 240s to like a 140s-160s area would be enough to smooth the set over.

[SwitchFade]

2 hours ago, Super Atom said:

@Kaballah Your post is being brigaded by never changers, have solace in that it didn't stop the EM changes, so there might be hope anyway.

Or perhaps there's people who know that mind is incredibly potent?

 

 

[Super Atom]

Just now, SwitchFade said:

Or perhaps there's people who know that mind is incredibly potent?

 

 

 

Potent at what? Doing the same thing as every other control set but with a larger recharge?

[ScarySai]

1 minute ago, SwitchFade said:

Or perhaps there's people who know that mind is incredibly potent?

 

Gravity was potent, and it still got an awesome change to singularity.

 

Ice blast is potent, but I wouldn't say no to a BFR buff.

 

Tac arrow was potent, and now it's god status in the right hands.

 

So I don't see why Mass Confusion and TK couldn't get looked at.

[SwitchFade]

42 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

 

I don't know how else to explain to you that it isn't about in game ability or skill levels. At this point, you're either trolling or just intentionally being insulting.

Sorry, you're also not explaining it well to me, either.

 

I can do absurd things with mind/

 

Much like people who misunderstand storm, it IS about the use. Mind could use a tweak, but what's being championed here is unnecessary.

 

If you reduce MC down to even 180sec recharge and change nothing else, my Dom will now have exactly 1 "I win" button instead of 2. I can solo just about any 4/8 content effortlessly now, and some want to make it so that I could do it 50% faster? Uh ok, sure.

 

Edit: fixed typo 189 to 180sec

Edited July 12, 2021 by SwitchFade

[ScarySai]

People still misunderstand storm? I thought it was generally considered to be god status in the right hands once you get tornado, nowadays.

[SwitchFade]

3 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Gravity was potent, and it still got an awesome change to singularity.

 

Ice blast is potent, but I wouldn't say no to a BFR buff.

 

Tac arrow was potent, and now it's god status in the right hands.

 

So I don't see why Mass Confusion and TK couldn't get looked at.

TK for sure. MC, if there were a recharge redux, mentioned in previous replies. Commence 1 button faceroll.

[SwitchFade]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

People still misunderstand storm? I thought it was generally considered to be god status in the right hands once you get tornado, nowadays.

People still turn on hurricane and leave it on.

[ScarySai]

2 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

TK for sure. MC, if there were a recharge redux, mentioned in previous replies. Commence 1 button faceroll.

 

So what? I must have missed the memo where faceroll on trash in this game is a bad thing.

 

2 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

People still turn on hurricane and leave it on.

 

I don't even take hurricane on mine. >_>

[Sunsette]

6 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Sorry, you're also not explaining it well to me, either.

 

This game is badly balanced, a goal mostly abandoned in favor of allowing conceptual freedom. Even in more tightly designed games, balancing things primarily or substantially off of the top end performance of the tiny fraction of players who are very build-polished AND specialized in a particular powerset is a design choice.

 

Not necessarily a design choice that a lot of people think is good, and it's not done a lot unless the top end has a competitive scene. 

 

I don't have strong opinions on this topic though, just insomniac and bored. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Sunsette

[Super Atom]

8 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Sorry, you're also not explaining it well to me, either.

 

I can do absurd things with mind/

 

Much like people who misunderstand storm, it IS about the use. Mind could use a tweak, but what's being championed here is unnecessary.

 

If you reduce MC down to even 189sec recharge and change nothing else, my Dom will now have exactly 1 "I win" button instead of 2. I can solo just about any 4/8 content effortlessly now, and some want to make it so that I could do it 50% faster? Uh ok, sure.

-everything can solo +4/x8 effortlessly now-

 

Yes, it'll make mind control even better at doing it, that's the point of making the change so the set feels a little nicer and the powers come up a little faster so you can use it more often as you go from group to group in 3 seconds because thats all it takes anymore to kill groups.

 

Assuming everyone here who wants the recharge reduced is just bad at the set is the most awkward approach to discussion to date.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Super Atom

[Mezmera]

There's Mass Confusion and Total Domination which you can alternate for perma control.  On top of that you have a sleep which is actually the most effective control (which I don't take for those pointing out the aoe carnage) and also terrify, both as soft control which accentuate your already hard control you can do throughout the map.  

 

Sure it's no broken bonfire or training wheels easy plant control with SoC and creeper vines that each hold their own aggro.  Mind control can already control the map with ease permanently which most sets can not do unless you're the abusively bad habit forming powersets mentioned above.  

 

Lets make every powerset have 1 I win button so we don't need to leverage the rest of the trash in these powersets eh.  

[Super Atom]

4 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

There's Mass Confusion and Total Domination which you can alternate for perma control.  On top of that you have a sleep which is actually the most effective control (which I don't take for those pointing out the aoe carnage) and also terrify, both as soft control which accentuate your already hard control you can do throughout the map.  

 

Sure it's no broken bonfire or training wheels easy plant control with SoC and creeper vines that each hold their own aggro.  Mind control can already control the map with ease permanently which most sets can not do unless you're the abusively bad habit forming powersets mentioned above.  

 

Lets make every powerset have 1 I win button so we don't need to leverage the rest of the trash in these powersets eh.  

 

City of heroes is not balanced around the top players or IO's.

 

What you're suggesting is that we balance the set around a fully IO'd character.

 

this is fundamentally against the games design.

 

Also; A lot of changes are made for power use pre-50 as well as that is the majority of the content in this game.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Super Atom

[Mezmera]

2 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

 

City of heroes is not balanced around the top players or IO's.

 

What you're suggesting is that we balance the set around a fully IO'd character.

 

this is fundamentally against the games design.

 

Also; A lot of changes are made for power use pre-50 as well as that is the majority of the content in this game.

 

 

 

Don't feed the "troll"

[Super Atom]

If you do not understand how this game is balanced or adjusted, That's fine. You can live in max'd out IO world and think everything is overpowered, but don't come here and call people bad at the game because you lack a fundamental understanding of balance.

 

Balance is primarily around SO, though a healthy mix of keeping IO's in mind. Not fully IO'd, max incarnate characters.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Super Atom

[oedipus_tex]

Total Domination doesn't fill Mind's control hole IMO. It's just too inaccurate. I've never found any of the AoE Holds other than Earth or Dark's modified versions to be worthwhile while leveling up. They have a place once I've got a lot of global Accuracy from set bonuses, in most cases as a back up to a back up.

 

It's possibly true that the "always up" control Mind is missing is Telekinesis and not Mass Confusion. Its Recharge certainly suggests that. The fact that an unmodified version of Telekinesis exists in the Defender APPs may speak otherwise, though. You wouldn't see, say, Flashfire in an APP (though Tankers do get a version of Stalagmites, so I could be wrong).

 

I never did get to play with the original, no target cap Telekinesis. I bet that was fun. 

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

Total Domination doesn't fill Mind's control hole IMO. It's just too inaccurate. I've never found any of the AoE Holds other than Earth or Dark's modified versions to be worthwhile while leveling up. They have a place once I've got a lot of global Accuracy from set bonuses, in most cases as a back up to a back up.

 

It's possibly true that the "always up" control Mind is missing is Telekinesis and not Mass Confusion. Its Recharge certainly suggests that. The fact that an unmodified version of Telekinesis exists in the Defender APPs may speak otherwise, though. You wouldn't see, say, Flashfire in an APP (though Tankers do get a version of Stalagmites, so I could be wrong).

 

I never did get to play with the original, no target cap Telekinesis. I bet that was fun. 

 

Take Tactics?  Kismet?  Slot some accuracy? Controllers get self buffs with +tohitt.  There's no reason to skip your standard AoE hold, you're doing your team a disservice not taking them.  You can also proc the hell out of the aoe hold for some real nice damage for those of you wanting that.  I have the purple and pvp proc in mine and it feeds well into my aoe damage without adding all the other procs you can into this one.  AoE holds are just too good and adaptable to find excuses not to take it.  

 

TK was broken good long ago the way it was, same would have been true for Mass Confusion had they not changed that before IO's came on the scene.  TK is easily skippable now.  A happy medium for TK sure, add some kind of -tohitt to the aoe sleep and reshuffle the first 4 powers in Mind and call it a day for those clamoring for a change to the set.  

[SwitchFade]

I could go for all controller AoE holds not having a penalty on acc, at least. I would not necessarily rubber stamp a blanket recharge redux. There are many ways to buff acc, but in an SO environment, perhaps both 240 and an acc penalty are a bit much.

 

Seeds needs to be detuned so these threads aren't spawned comparing broken to anything.

[SwitchFade]

TK.... Would be really neat if it was a targeted aoe that did the reverse repel thingy that singy now does.

 

I am a fan of the re-application of sleep that elec does.

 

Thing is, if you give mind these changes, now mind has...

 

MC

Total dom

Revamped pulsing sleep

Revamped pulling TK AoE

 

You add -recharge on that? I would think not. So that's the point, do we want a perma 1 button neuterfest? If not, then MC is not the issue, the other powers needing a refresh are. Keep in mind, on a Dom, mind does really absurd things.

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, SwitchFade said:

I am a fan of the re-application of sleep that elec does.

 

Honestly, i kind of wish all sleeps just did this in general.

 

For balance reasons, the reapply time could vary power to power.

[oedipus_tex]

TBH I don't think anything is likely to happen to Seeds. Roots is bugged so I can see changes there, and Carrion Creepers is a likely target because the proc rate is dizzying. As we're writing this though I'm looking at a Water Blast build that's half finished but has Geyser recharging in 35 seconds. Seeds recharge and duration hardly matter when Blasters can nuke as frequently as the top tier Ice Dominators can drop an Ice Slick.

[Mezmera]

59 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Seeds recharge and duration hardly matter when Blasters can nuke as frequently as the top tier Ice Dominators can drop an Ice Slick.

 

That my friend is the Pandora's box that was opened while this was away from live.