MM secondary

[You]

Which MM secondary will do well in zone and arena pvp?

 

Thanks again for the advice!!

[macskull]

Poison is good.

[Ninjaboy]

Back in the day (before the other choices were added) / Poison was second to none.

 

 

I would PvP non-stop in zones and matches with Thugs or Ninjas / Poison. Ninjas were fun because of the massive melee ST damage and they were very high skill cap to control effectively. It has the strongest debuffs in the game (equal to benumb?) but with a much much much lower CD. Envenom and Weaken are fast CD so if you miss you can recast quickly. Also Noxious Gas + TP Foe = Dead anything. It is a unresistible hold with very powerful debuffing secondary effects and is an "auto-hit". Works very well on Thugs Tier 3 Pet the Bruiser. Noxious Breath will bottom out enemy recharge too. All of the other poison items are non-positional meaning you can attack on the go and not have to worry about placing it in a certain spot and hoping someone will run into it.

 

 

/Poison

 

Pros: Most debuffs are not area placement effects. Great vs. fast movement. Debuffs are extremely powerful, effect everything (will stop or slow recovery but not delete end), and are a shorter CD than similar ones like benumb. Ally / Pet mez resist with Antidote. Decent single target heal. Unresistable hold with Noxious gas and less often with Noxious Breath. Now updated so it spreads slightly but with less effect.

 

Cons: Lacks AoE heal for your pet. Single target heal and cannot heal yourself). No self mezz protection. Accuracy check on all except trap and Noxious gas. Debuffs do not remove endurance. Stronger -tohit debuffs with other sets. Noxious Gas is powerful but positional on your pet. No group stealth + resist like in other sets. No buffs outside of mezz protection.

 

 

/Poison is played extremely aggressive outside of Noxious Gas CD. Think of it as your Pets are buffed once you have them debuffed. Zone funsies when Noxious Gas is available you want to TP Foe the enemy into your pet with the Gas and activate an ability with -jump -speed -fly (web nade patron power). TPing them into a buddy's tar patch works too.

 

 

Currently Thugs /Empathy is high on the list right now as a successful favorite. Empathy is so boring to me and pretty much just all buffs. Seems like more a favorite for group PvP?

 

/Thermal is a good compromise as it gives you a little of everything although the debuffs are on a longer CD like / cold. Provides +RES vs. +DEF with cold.

 

/Cold has some really amazing abilities. I just can't get past the fact it doesn't have in set mezz protection, heal, etc. Benumb and Heat Loss are so good but 120 sec and 360 base CD. /Poison has similar effects at 12 sec and 16 sec respectively for the same 30 second duration.

 

/Pain is ok too with an AoE, ST heal, Ally / Pet mezz protection, and ok late debuffs / buffs. The issue with the debuff is it's PBAoE based. This was given to the Villains before Empathy was a choice. Pain Bringer is cool but the pet damage cap is low. You'll going to overextend it and decrease it's usefulness. better to put it on a friendly.

 

/Sonic is hardcore +RES including one power that gives you +RES and mezz protection! I don't like the fact the last ability and main debuff is location (ground) based. Plus the debuffs do not have a mass negative effect outcome outside of -RES except for-DEF and a small -to hit debuff on Liquefy. I really haven't seen many MMs in PvP with this set. More of a cruise control for PvE.

 

/Storm is one of my favorites as a fun factor. It has a lot going for it but can suffer from those location (ground) based issues (freezing rain debuff, storm, tornado, etc. Hurricane is so fun in PvP. Although it is a fun location defensive set for zones or 1v1s. The -tohit is second only to /dark.

 

/Dark can be viable. I PvP'd for years with a Robots/Dark MM and it was very successful. This was before the other sets were available however. You have a no acc check disorient, black hole is interesting, has a lot of -tohit, extra pet with more holds, fears, and -tohit. BUT your only inset heal is an accuracy check :( Tar Pit is one of my all time zone favorites for MMs.

 

/Rad is always decent imho. The biggest issue is with the toggles. Toggles Toggles Toggles. You get mezz'd once and no offensive toggles on the baddies. Thermal, Poison, Cold the debuff stays for 30 seconds regardless if you're stunned :) BUT Accelerate Metabolism and Lingering Rad so good. The only other set that gives you status effect protection outside of /sonic.

 

 

Secondaries are where it's at for MMs as you can make any of the primaries viable. Thugs / Robots / Demos being the best for newer players and vets looking for an easy ride.

 

Obviously there are some set IO considerations for all the above as well.

 

 

Edit:

 

/Time - I have not had a chance to try this to end game yet but it seems like it could be viable? I see it left off of the lists and am curious as to why? It does look like some of the end game effects are changed while in PvP which might be the reason? It looks like it has a toolkit for almost everything although positional issues could be a big factor as well.

 

/Nature - Looks very promising too much it does not have -DEF debuff?

 

 

m3z, malex, and and libertyinc  probably have some thoughts on these sets too.

[You]

Do the effects of Envenom and Weaken stack from the same caster?

 

Thanks!

[macskull]

They do not, but that's true for most powers like that.

[You]

In which case, I assume each shot from Acid Mortar does not stack too...  (if so, it will be great)

[macskull]

I don't think it does. But, Traps is... meh. It's not very mobile which works okay with an MM, but it's not the best.

[Dan Petro]

Don't quote me on this.  But I believe debuffs from psuedo pets can self stack.

 

I.e Sleet, shots from two different acid mortars, freezing rain (and maybe something I'm missing) but you specifically need to summon a second instance of those things.  They don't self stack from an individual cast.

 

[You]

I am more inclined to choose a debuff orientated set over a buff set. That’s because I used to have a FF and a thermal main (and an Emp defender) before the close down. It’s good to try something else. I want to like Rad, Kin and Time but since +recharge buff does not apply to pets, it lowers the “force multiplication” potential of those three powers. That leaves me with the debuff sets, which both the pets and the team can take full advantage of the force multiplication potential. 

 

Poison is good but the lack of group heal (for instance remedial action) or shielding (for preemptive protection) makes me feel squishy. Yes, I am sure if I can debuff the target first, and thus conversely means I am buffed (and my pets and my team too). But having the first strike capability is not something always available. Besides, I am still trying to find out how much debuff does Noxious Gas do - still can’t find the numbers.

 

That leads me to Cold and Dark. Cold and Dark both have locational patches that do -res and/or -def. TP for is highly recommended to get the most of those powers. Both are strong in either +recharge or -to-hit, which are both good in their own right. That said, Dark build seems to be more flexible as one can skip at least two powers from it. Besides, Fluffy is kind of a fire-and-forget T9, which does it own things and that leaves me focusing on other matters at hand.

 

I want to like trap too but it seems to be the most stationary sets of all. Apart from Web Grenade, I frequently find myself unable to offer more in a fast moving battle.

 

Sonic and Storm are both good but I think their numbers on a MM is rather low. I am sure Pain is good too but I had an Emp before and want to try something else now. Arrow is just outshone by other sets, which I am going to leave it aside for now. Nature is too new for me and I have no comment to it.

 

So... I am now debating whether to choose a Cold, Dark or a more adventurous Poison. Primary would most likely be Demons.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks!

[Ninjaboy]

Your "checklist" is pointing to Thermal. I know you already played that..... but Thermal works really with with Demos because it stacks on their inherent +RES protections. Cold is nice for the ninjas because of the positional +DEF stacking.

 

 

Noxious Gas is like stronger Envenom + Weaken with no acc check plus a chance to hold. I believe it stacks with the Weaken + Envenom too (it is a separate debuff "Noxious Gas").

 

Not sure of the exact numbers. I suggest jumping on test server and testing it out with a buddy.

 

The hold has enough magnitude to surpass any protection in the game and is unaffected by status resistances and PvP mez suppression.

 

You are right though... poison is squish until the debuff hits. It is a very active set but it is a proven pvp set too.

 

 

 

Some things to consider with Dark -

 

 

- one of the main debuffs is a toggle

 

- heal is an accuracy check.

 

- no -DEF

 

 

but

 

- Shadow Fall fully slotted provides team PBAoE resist and def ~23% Psi, Energy, Neg resist ~6% Def  +resist fear plus stealth mechanic.

 

- Tar Patch can be game over if someone is caught

 

- Loads of -tohit

 

- Extra FF pet with even more -tohit, holds, heals, etc.

 

- Auto hit Disorient with no acc check and -regen, -slow, -tohit, etc.

 

 

Cold is all about Benumb with a side of heat loss.

 

You work the rest of the debuffs in like a Storm / Poison combo while those are on CD.

 

The +DEF Shields for pets will stack with your Arctic Fog +DEF +RES +Stealth which is nice too.

 

 

Cold debuffs are powerful but benumb is single target on a base 2 min CD.

 

Heat loss is 6 min CD. You would have some work to get that cut down lol.

 

 

[You]

Nature is too new to me. But I have looked into numbers. It seems ok: it does decent -regen and -res for bosses (obviously not as high as Poison Trap and Howling Twilight but it’s serviceable).

 

Heals and other things are good too. I can skip the rez and hold in order to make the build a bit more flexible.

 

Anyone has any experience on the set?

 

Thanks!

[thorsmitersaw]

so traps sucks? :/

I was hoping it would be good in pvp... I guess I should reroll then

 

are mercs ok in pvp? did I gimp myself at both ends?

[M3z]

Once tp foe intangibility gets reversed, I think traps can work in zones.

[Ninjaboy]

so traps sucks? :/

I was hoping it would be good in pvp... I guess I should reroll then

 

are mercs ok in pvp? did I gimp myself at both ends?

 

Mercs are probably the worst primary set for anything MM. :( Although the medic doesn't suicide as often now that brawl is suppressed.