Ninjaboy

The problem is other sets lack specific damage mitigating tools in exchange for the +PSI resist. If you give sets like Invul and EA *everything* i.e. +HP, Invul +DEF, +RESIST, no PSI hole, Heal, etc. you now expose the other sets to their deficits. +HP for example is native resistance to everything already by simply increase your health pool. EA, Invul have it and other sets like ELEC don't. I understand the premise behind this move as Invul has been lagging behind the newer, flashy sets like RAD, BIO, for a while. However I think you will have to continue the power creep to the other sets to fill in their deficits as well now. Might want to start with /ELECT first with at least a +HP boost in some form perhaps?

Do you know if they are still having Xfer issues to Excelsior? I tested it with one character to Excelsior without issue.

Thank you!

How easy is it to build out +PSI DEF / RES with /EA ? It is great /EA is a jack of all trades except PSI. End game PSI is a pretty big deal and avoiding content has always been a ridiculously silly ideology (unless you are a pure farmer).

Why wouldn't you guys put the link in the HOW2 thread? Even the OP's tagline is just a loop back to the HOW2 thread with no download link.

I just tried the 801.2 at +3/8 completely adhoc with my SS/Electric Brute using the wrong incarnates and only stocked up on a few inspirations (also wrong type). I was just stress testing my build which is heavily IO'd but not a silly no travel power, skip key theme abilities , etc. It was pretty easy if all my protection rotations were up or I had some key inspirations available when those were down. Switching to the right incarnates would have made it a lot more friendly as well as targeting key mobs as you mentioned. I was zerging it unprepared and it took me way longer than it should have to get through the first bit of the mission.

Spider is Amazing and Hulk is Monstrous up to Shift-Y depending on his anger. He has hit class 1000 (remember when he blew the planet up?) But that is an exception and not the rule.

SS/Elec is amazing (Black Adam/Shazam would be this imho) I would highly recommend avoiding Elec melee for Brute. Not enough damage imho. It Electric melee is a lot better on a Stalker.

Am I missing something here? Are we nerfing Brutes to indirectly buff Tankers and Scrappers so they have a purpose?

I just made one of these last week. It's a pretty fun combo. I feel /Nin is overlooked a lot for prettier and shiner things when in fact it's very shiny and pretty.

Primaries: S-Tier: Rad, SS A-Tier: WM, Psi, StJ, TW (maybe savage too?), The biggest issue with Psi is fighting mobs with big time resists. End game you start encountering more mobs with Psi resist which starts making it feel lackluster compared to a Rage + SS. Secondaries: S-Tier: Elec, Rad, Invul, Bio All the above are on pretty even depending on what you want to do and the situation. I would rate: Rad > Elec > Invul > Bio based on my playstyle + fun factor. Bio / Rad are insane but I just don't like the abilities that require X amount of mobs being near you to function even if that happens in most circumstances. I have a SS/Elec veteran and find endgame content is trivial even at +4x8 (although I perfer +3x8). I stayed away from the main builds with this one and instead went into RofP + T9. I am maxed (or near) all resists PASSIVE except for toxic. I don't find a lot of the main builds fun because they min/max to the point of doing silly things like missing a fun power or taking ninja run as your main travel power. Fortunately with this combo you can do almost anything you want and be at S tier. The tier9 is there just for extreme moments (PvP, getting debuffed, etc) but RofP or Incarnate shields will handle most anything without the NEED for the T9. I love the T9 of Electric thematically. The biggest, "I wish this set had" is bonus HP. It makes me sad sometimes.

Everlasting for Villains. There are a lot of dedicated "red only" groups that run most days.

Poison is awesome but can be very player intensive. You have no self heal, no shields, self buffs, etc. Your only defense is to debuff or hold. The good news is debuffs are what make Poison insane. Short of maybe Benumb (single target, long cooldown) you aren't going to find more powerful overall debuffs in the MM sets with very short cooldowns. The last level ability is extremely powerful but is better suited for Melee pets as it casts an aura around a pet that has a hold chance (non-resistible) and constantly AoE debuffs with no acc check. This stacks with Envenom + Weaken as well. All of Poison debuffs require an accuracy check except Noxious Gas (And maybe Trap?). BUT all of poison except for the last two abilities are mob target abilities. You don't have to keep an enemy in a specific location or place the debuff on the ground. Debuff on the go! This is especially good for PVP. They added a small area AoE spread with Envenom and Weaken in one of the later updates. The effect is weaker than the primary target but at least there is one! Poison is known for it's ability to weaken mob negative effects on you, kill bosses, and kill players. Think of it as a single target killer. If you miss your debuff or have too many mobs it is going to be an issue. Noxious Breath / Gas / Trap does help with this late game however. Thugs / Poison was considered to be #1 when it was first launched in PvE and PvP. It is still good today.

That's what I was afraid of lol. Do you think if you switch to Defensive (or even efficient) it could be "comparable" to a traditional PvP secondary?

Not so sure about your primary but Energy Aura is a top tier for Scrapper / Stalker.

Anyone test /Bio armor for PvP yet? The 25% seems like it would be nice for a stalker opener (or maybe a Sentinel)? It looks like the survivability on it might be rough unless you do some magic Incarnates / Pools / IOs end game to offset the holes.

Mercs are probably the worst primary set for anything MM. :( Although the medic doesn't suicide as often now that brawl is suppressed.

Testing out a Ninjas / Cold and it is solid. Maneuvers + Arctic Fog + Ice Shields = Miss fest Benumb is one of the best debuffs in the game. Slot that baby for recharge. Aid Other is kind of bad. The range isn't good tbh and getting interrupted is just awful. Getting the last talent in that medicine pool is tight depending on your build too. /Cold is exceptional for PvP as well.

The thing is you are going to be taking that "lucky" hit as often as a Brute / Tank with +DEF which doesn't happen often at cap. However with +RES you are capped at 75% vs. 90% with a Brute / Tank. the difference could be half your health bar and you have little to no +DEF to avoid. You are going to take everything at minimum at 25% strength which is 2.5x worse than a Brute / Tank. EnA is an excellent set that focuses on the defensive strength of the Sent (+DEF) with some +RES for back up that you can take higher end game. The biggest issue is of course that pesky Psi.

The big issue with /Time is that +recharge is a big component of the set and none of your pets can benefit from it. /Dark is one of the best PvE sets in the game. Only thing big it is missing is a -DEF Also Bots / FF is PvE cruise control. It can be a lot of fun. I think we all made one of these back in the day.

Your "checklist" is pointing to Thermal. I know you already played that..... but Thermal works really with with Demos because it stacks on their inherent +RES protections. Cold is nice for the ninjas because of the positional +DEF stacking. Noxious Gas is like stronger Envenom + Weaken with no acc check plus a chance to hold. I believe it stacks with the Weaken + Envenom too (it is a separate debuff "Noxious Gas"). Not sure of the exact numbers. I suggest jumping on test server and testing it out with a buddy. The hold has enough magnitude to surpass any protection in the game and is unaffected by status resistances and PvP mez suppression. You are right though... poison is squish until the debuff hits. It is a very active set but it is a proven pvp set too. Some things to consider with Dark - - one of the main debuffs is a toggle - heal is an accuracy check. - no -DEF but - Shadow Fall fully slotted provides team PBAoE resist and def ~23% Psi, Energy, Neg resist ~6% Def +resist fear plus stealth mechanic. - Tar Patch can be game over if someone is caught - Loads of -tohit - Extra FF pet with even more -tohit, holds, heals, etc. - Auto hit Disorient with no acc check and -regen, -slow, -tohit, etc. Cold is all about Benumb with a side of heat loss. You work the rest of the debuffs in like a Storm / Poison combo while those are on CD. The +DEF Shields for pets will stack with your Arctic Fog +DEF +RES +Stealth which is nice too. Cold debuffs are powerful but benumb is single target on a base 2 min CD. Heat loss is 6 min CD. You would have some work to get that cut down lol.

Quick take from what I've learned so far - Def > Resists for Sents. Offensive secondaries sets - Bio - 25% damage boost in Offensive mode Fire - 10% passive with Molten Embrace Ninja - 20% first attack breaking stealth Rad - 33% under the effects of Meltdown All will stack with Assault from Leadership Pool. Highest overall DPS seems to be coming from BIO in Offensive Mode. My favorite secondaries - /EnA - +HP, Mega resistance vs. Defense debuffs, +TP Resist, +Repel resist, Lots of Endurance recovery including a sapper ability, in set heal, Overload also grants more HP, +20% to recharge, Overload hard caps your +DEF for 3 mins making you extremely hard to kill. The highest overall passive +RES for a +DEF Set except for no Psi resist. /Bio - Plays a lot like +WP and Regen. You can stance dance like a Warrior in WoW. Activate your shield in Defense mode then change to offensive mode to attack. Will not be as "unkillable" as some of the other sets end game because you will not hit the RES or +DEF cap on Parasitic Leech. /Ninja - Decent set. You can max out the +DEF provided by your main shields early game. You give up a lot of utility vs. EnA for the Psi protection that could be outfitted (somewhat) late game. The extra damage on first attack out of stealth is interesting along with the extra movement speed. /Electric - Solid+RES but Sent resist cap at 75% instead of 90% for other melee. You can get hit for big numbers even at 75% resist. Why are you getting hit though? lol

Back in the day (before the other choices were added) / Poison was second to none. I would PvP non-stop in zones and matches with Thugs or Ninjas / Poison. Ninjas were fun because of the massive melee ST damage and they were very high skill cap to control effectively. It has the strongest debuffs in the game (equal to benumb?) but with a much much much lower CD. Envenom and Weaken are fast CD so if you miss you can recast quickly. Also Noxious Gas + TP Foe = Dead anything. It is a unresistible hold with very powerful debuffing secondary effects and is an "auto-hit". Works very well on Thugs Tier 3 Pet the Bruiser. Noxious Breath will bottom out enemy recharge too. All of the other poison items are non-positional meaning you can attack on the go and not have to worry about placing it in a certain spot and hoping someone will run into it. /Poison Pros: Most debuffs are not area placement effects. Great vs. fast movement. Debuffs are extremely powerful, effect everything (will stop or slow recovery but not delete end), and are a shorter CD than similar ones like benumb. Ally / Pet mez resist with Antidote. Decent single target heal. Unresistable hold with Noxious gas and less often with Noxious Breath. Now updated so it spreads slightly but with less effect. Cons: Lacks AoE heal for your pet. Single target heal and cannot heal yourself). No self mezz protection. Accuracy check on all except trap and Noxious gas. Debuffs do not remove endurance. Stronger -tohit debuffs with other sets. Noxious Gas is powerful but positional on your pet. No group stealth + resist like in other sets. No buffs outside of mezz protection. /Poison is played extremely aggressive outside of Noxious Gas CD. Think of it as your Pets are buffed once you have them debuffed. Zone funsies when Noxious Gas is available you want to TP Foe the enemy into your pet with the Gas and activate an ability with -jump -speed -fly (web nade patron power). TPing them into a buddy's tar patch works too. Currently Thugs /Empathy is high on the list right now as a successful favorite. Empathy is so boring to me and pretty much just all buffs. Seems like more a favorite for group PvP? /Thermal is a good compromise as it gives you a little of everything although the debuffs are on a longer CD like / cold. Provides +RES vs. +DEF with cold. /Cold has some really amazing abilities. I just can't get past the fact it doesn't have in set mezz protection, heal, etc. Benumb and Heat Loss are so good but 120 sec and 360 base CD. /Poison has similar effects at 12 sec and 16 sec respectively for the same 30 second duration. /Pain is ok too with an AoE, ST heal, Ally / Pet mezz protection, and ok late debuffs / buffs. The issue with the debuff is it's PBAoE based. This was given to the Villains before Empathy was a choice. Pain Bringer is cool but the pet damage cap is low. You'll going to overextend it and decrease it's usefulness. better to put it on a friendly. /Sonic is hardcore +RES including one power that gives you +RES and mezz protection! I don't like the fact the last ability and main debuff is location (ground) based. Plus the debuffs do not have a mass negative effect outcome outside of -RES except for-DEF and a small -to hit debuff on Liquefy. I really haven't seen many MMs in PvP with this set. More of a cruise control for PvE. /Storm is one of my favorites as a fun factor. It has a lot going for it but can suffer from those location (ground) based issues (freezing rain debuff, storm, tornado, etc. Hurricane is so fun in PvP. Although it is a fun location defensive set for zones or 1v1s. The -tohit is second only to /dark. /Dark can be viable. I PvP'd for years with a Robots/Dark MM and it was very successful. This was before the other sets were available however. You have a no acc check disorient, black hole is interesting, has a lot of -tohit, extra pet with more holds, fears, and -tohit. BUT your only inset heal is an accuracy check :( Tar Pit is one of my all time zone favorites for MMs. /Rad is always decent imho. The biggest issue is with the toggles. Toggles Toggles Toggles. You get mezz'd once and no offensive toggles on the baddies. Thermal, Poison, Cold the debuff stays for 30 seconds regardless if you're stunned :) BUT Accelerate Metabolism and Lingering Rad so good. The only other set that gives you status effect protection outside of /sonic. Secondaries are where it's at for MMs as you can make any of the primaries viable. Thugs / Robots / Demos being the best for newer players and vets looking for an easy ride. Obviously there are some set IO considerations for all the above as well. Edit: /Time - I have not had a chance to try this to end game yet but it seems like it could be viable? I see it left off of the lists and am curious as to why? It does look like some of the end game effects are changed while in PvP which might be the reason? It looks like it has a toolkit for almost everything although positional issues could be a big factor as well. /Nature - Looks very promising too much it does not have -DEF debuff? m3z, malex, and and libertyinc probably have some thoughts on these sets too.