[Wishful Thinking] A Knockback Set worth slotting ...

[Redlynne]

So … one thing that I think we can all agree on is that the Knockback Sets from Issue 23 were pretty uniformly TERRIBLE at their job for any power that was supposed to be delivering DAMAGE enhancement onto anything.

 

How terrible?

Well …

 

 

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Invention_Origin_Enhancements

For Set IOs that boost two aspects, each aspect gets 5/8ths the normal bonus – which is more than 1/2 as would be expected, which means a dual-aspect IO gives 5/8 + 5/8 = 10/8ths or 5/4ths or 25% more of a buff in total. Though each individual aspect gets less boost than a single-aspect IO would give, the total combined bonus is one-and-a-quarter times as large.

 

Similarly, triple-aspect IOs boost each aspect by half the normal amount, for an aggregate total of one-and-a-half times, or 50% total buff compared to a single-aspect IO. Quad-aspect IOs boost each aspect by 0.4375 times the normal amount, for an aggregate total one-and-three-quarters times as large (75% extra buff in total).

 

 

 

So in practice, what does this mean?

Well …

 

Let's take reasonably well designed/well rounded Sets such as Crushing Impact or Thunderstrike as a point of reference:

• Accuracy/Damage
  
• Damage/Endurance
  
• Damage/Recharge
  
• Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  
• Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  
• Damage/Endurance/Recharge

 

How much enhancement value is yielded by this combination?

Well …

• +0.625 Accuracy / +0.625 Damage
  
• +0.625 Damage / +0.625 Endurance
  
• +0.625 Damage / +0.625 Recharge
  
• +0.5 Accuracy / +0.5 Damage / +0.5 Recharge
  
• +0.5 Accuracy / +0.5 Damage / +0.5 Endurance
  
• +0.5 Damage / +0.5 Endurance / +0.5 Recharge
  
• Total enhancement values (SO conversion): 1.625 Accuracy, 3.375 Damage, 1.625 Endurance, 1.625 Recharge = 8.25

 

Compare that to the most damaging Knockback Set … Kinetic Crash …

• +0.625 Knockback / +0.625 Damage
  
• +0.625 Knockback / +0.625 Accuracy
  
• +0.625 Knockback / +0.625 Recharge
  
• +0.625 Knockback / +0.625 Endurance
  
• +0.5 Knockback / +0.5 Damage / +0.5 Endurance
  
• +0.5 Knockback / +0.5 Damage / +0.5 Accuracy
  
• Total enhancement values (SO conversion):  3.5 Knockback, 1.125 Accuracy, 1.625 Damage, 1.125 Endurance, 0.625 Recharge = 8.00

 

So, with a Knockback Set … EVERYTHING IS GIMPED to deliver sub-par performance for 6 slots, with Knockback receiving an ED mistake of 3.5 SO worth of enhancement, essentially "wasting" some of the enhancement value of the Knockback itself.  That's basically 4.5 SOs worth of Accuracy, Damage, Endurance and Recharge value out of 6 slots!

 

This is just … dumb … on multiple levels, especially since every other Knockback set offers even LESS enhancement of these core values needed for every damaging power in the game!

 

The Sudden Acceleration Set is ironically even worse, but not by much …

• +0.625 Knockback / +0.625 Accuracy
  
• +0.625 Knockback / +0.625 Recharge
  
• +0.5 Knockback / +0.5 Damage / +0.5 Accuracy
  
• +0.5 Knockback / +0.5 Damage / +0.5 Endurance
  
• +0.5 Knockback / +0.5 Damage / +0.5 Recharge
  
• Knockback to Knockdown
  
• Total enhancement values (SO conversion):  2.75 Knockback, 1.125 Accuracy, 1.5 Damage, 0.5 Endurance, 1.125 Recharge = 7.00 + Knockback to Knockdown

 

So … less Damage output, and less Knockback (which then gets converted into Knockdown), for higher Endurance cost and a faster Recharge that will burn through your blue bar at a higher rate.  And yet you're still getting only 4.25 SO worth of enhancement to Accuracy, Damage, Endurance and Recharge out of 5 slots instead of 6 slots (due to the Knockback to Knockdown converter IO).

 

Gee … (still no) thanks …

 

 

 

Obviously what's missing from this recitation is a Knockback Set that is worth slotting just for the enhancement values of the enhancements themselves … never mind the Set Bonuses.

 

So just for comparison purposes, here's what happens if you take the Crushing Impact or Thunderstrike enhancement layout and simply add a Knockback modifier to each of the enhancements:

• +0.5 Knockback / +0.5 Accuracy / +0.5 Damage
  
• +0.5 Knockback / +0.5 Damage / +0.5 Endurance
  
• +0.5 Knockback / +0.5 Damage / +0.5 Recharge
  
• +0.4375 Knockback / +0.4375 Accuracy / +0.4375 Damage / +0.4375 Recharge
  
• +0.4375 Knockback / +0.4375 Accuracy / +0.4375 Damage / +0.4375 Endurance
  
• +0.4375 Knockback / +0.4375 Damage / +0.4375 Endurance / +0.4375 Recharge
  
• Total enhancement values (SO conversion): 2.8125 Knockback, 1.375 Accuracy, 2.8125 Damage, 1.375 Endurance, 1.375 Recharge = 9.75 (6.9735 not including Knockback enhancement)

 

Okay, NOW we're finally looking at something worth slotting into a Damage power for the purposes of doing DAMAGE while also doing Knockback at the same time.  Instead of self-gimping down to 4.5 SO worth of enhancement values, this layout offers 6.9735 SO "worth" of enhancement to Accuracy, Damage, Endurance and Recharge … which obviously lags behind the 8.25 SO "worth" of enhancement to those same values offered by 6 slots of Crushing Impact or Thunderstrike, while at the same time "wasting" less of that enhancement value on Damage that will be capped by ED.

 

This means that even though each enhancement in this (proposed) Knockback Set is "weaker" than its counterpart in Crushing Impact or Thunderstrike due to "diluting" each of the enhancements even further by adding Knockback to all of them (in order to "port" the Set over into being a Knockback Set), the entire set winds up being "more efficient" at distributing its enhancement values such that they are all better balanced and none of them are by design running afoul of the ED cap for enhancement values.

 

 

 

In other words … it's perfectly possible to create a Knockback Set that isn't GIMPED BY DESIGN right from the outset(!).

 

I'd even go so far as to say that duplicating the Level range (21-50) and the Set bonuses of the Kinetic Crash set exactly would be perfectly fine, as a way to provide an "alternative" that respects precedents for Set Bonuses.  That way, you aren't getting Set Bonuses that haven't already been Balanced For with the number of slots that have to be invested to get those Set Bonuses.

 

 

 

As for what to name this set … how about …

 

Force Multiplier

• Knockback/Accuracy/Damage
  
• Knockback/Damage/Endurance
  
• Knockback/Damage/Recharge
  
• Knockback/Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  
• Knockback/Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  
• Knockback/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

The following set bonuses apply when slotting more than one of the enhancements in this set into a single power:

• 2 enhancements: Improves your Run Speed by +4.5%.
  
• 3 enhancements: +2.25 Smash/Lethal Resistance, +3.75% Mez Resistance.
  
• 4 enhancements: MAG -3 Knockback Protection.
  
• 5 enhancements: +6% Regeneration.
  
• 6 enhancements: +7.5% Recharge Time.

 

Finally ... a Knockback Set worth slotting based on the enhancement values of the enhancements themselves ...

 

 

 

What say you, Homecoming Dev Team and Homecoming Community?

[Sunsette]

The lack of efficient use of tri- and quad-piece enhancements in the knockback sets definitely caught my eye when I was designing my own proposal. The amount which these sets are uniquely shortchanged is baffling to me.

 

For a six piece enhancement bonus, I'd nudge it up to 8.75% Rech speed on the last, since you're committing to having Knockback if you go all-in. Like heal, there's rarely a strong reason to go all six points with KB, and the 8.75% speed is rarely used, so it'd be desirable for a number of reasons.

[Redlynne]

Granted.  But I'm not the one who gets to make those decisions if ideas like this get developed.  ^_~

[Herotu]

On 6/3/2019 at 4:58 AM, Redlynne said:

What say you, Homecoming Dev Team and Homecoming Community?

I say, "bump"

and, "QFT".

[justicebeliever]

/signed...and /signed again, in case someone misses the first one...

[Zep]

I'd use it.

 

Though your leaving out an important part of the balance, that being the set bonuses. I seem to recall using some of the kb sets on live... though dont recall specifically why for the character.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Zep

[Redlynne]

9 hours ago, Zep said:

Though your leaving out an important part of the balance, that being the set bonuses.

 

On 6/2/2019 at 10:58 PM, Redlynne said:

The following set bonuses apply when slotting more than one of the enhancements in this set into a single power:

• 2 enhancements: Improves your Run Speed by +4.5%.
• 3 enhancements: +2.25 Smash/Lethal Resistance, +3.75% Mez Resistance.
• 4 enhancements: MAG -3 Knockback Protection.
• 5 enhancements: +6% Regeneration.
• 6 enhancements: +7.5% Recharge Time.

 

Um ... copy/pasted from Kinetic Crash ... as advertised?