New Archetype: Commander

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

As I said, if I am wrong, I apologize. I never used sonic or Farrady Cage. (Forcefield generator grants mez protection?! As often as I am held, slept, or stunned through it, that surprises me.)

Then please please please, don't come across as so certain in your responses and/or check the Wiki or in-game power descriptions.  Cheers!

[biostem]

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Forcefield generator grants mez protection?! As often as I am held, slept, or stunned through it, that surprises me.

 

Since the FF Gen itself is a separate entity that has to follow you, if you go outside of its bubble, (or it gets caught on a piece of terrain and can't keep up), then you will be susceptible to mez effects.  It is also targetable and not terribly durable, so it'll often get destroyed.  It does have higher base values than the dispersion bubbles to try and compensate somewhat.  Similarly, Farraday cage is immobile, so you have to recast it as you move.  They have plusses and minuses that you must take into account when selecting and using such powers.

 

Oh!  And going back to the topic of "inherent" status protection - dominators get status protection while domination is running/activated...

[Zepp]

Hmmm...

 

Pets w/o attacks (replace attacks with team buffs / AoE Debuffs focused on mitigation).

Assault...

 

Beast: Regen

Demon: -DMG

Mercenaries: Res

Necromancy: -ToHit

Ninjas: Def

Robotics: -Spd/Recharge
Thugs: Absorb

 

Or, something like that...

[Rudra]

49 minutes ago, biostem said:

Then please please please, don't come across as so certain in your responses and/or check the Wiki or in-game power descriptions.  Cheers!

I did include an "if I am wrong, I apologize" bit in my initial response. Sorry anyway.

 

45 minutes ago, biostem said:

 

Since the FF Gen itself is a separate entity that has to follow you, if you go outside of its bubble, (or it gets caught on a piece of terrain and can't keep up), then you will be susceptible to mez effects.  It is also targetable and not terribly durable, so it'll often get destroyed.  It does have higher base values than the dispersion bubbles to try and compensate somewhat.  Similarly, Farraday cage is immobile, so you have to recast it as you move.  They have plusses and minuses that you must take into account when selecting and using such powers.

 

Oh!  And going back to the topic of "inherent" status protection - dominators get status protection while domination is running/activated...

The FFG was right next to me almost every time I was mezzed through it. At +0/x0 difficulty. (I'm very paranoid about not having my defenses available and wait for all my pets to catch up to me before initiating combat.)

 

Anyway, back to the topic. I still would like more specifics. Especially in regards to the number of pets each pet power summons, type of CC involved, and magnitude per pet.

[Rudra]

How is this:

Commander:

Primary: Assault: (from Dominator secondary) (As is)

Secondary: Pets:

Tier 1: Heal

Tier 2: Debuff pet (Darkest Night or equal tier MM debuff), AoE. Single pet with no attacks (Untouchable?) or tier 1 MM pet basic attack at lieutenant strength. If 2nd pet, gained 6 levels later, grants non-same debuff to account for later acquisition. Level -1 for both pets if have attacks.

Tier 3: Ranged/AoE defense or damage type resist based on pet theme. (So energy/negative for Necromancy.)

Tier 4: Upgrade T1 pet. (Maybe this is how you get the 2nd pet?)

Tier 5: MM style defense + mez protection power appropriate to pet theme.

Tier 6: CC pet. Single target Hold, Confuse, or Stun at Mag 3 or AoE at Mag 2. Single pet with basic tier 2 MM pet attack at lieutenant strength. If two pets planned, reduce Mag to 2 or 1 respectively and 2nd pet gained at later level. Level -1 if two pets.

Tier 7: Melee defense or additional damage type resist.

Tier 8: 4 Minion strength followers a la Gang War except without the timer.

Tier 9: Upgrade T2 pet. (Maybe this is how you get the 2nd?)

 

Not suggesting this be implemented, just saying this could be a good route for it.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to add level modifier to 2nd pet and last line.

[Marbing]

This is an idea I too have had for quite some time. It should be possible to do this and keep it balanced in some way. I would lean away from any support abilities though for the set because this would be more of a DPS AT than a support AT. That would be the trade off. You get pets but are less able to keep them alive than say a mastermind, instead focusing on personal survival.  Primary Assault is a good idea, gives you a mix of melee and range, then of course secondary pets. The attacks would be removed from the pet sets and be replaced with personal defense themes that fit the theme of the pet set.

Just some ideas:
Necromancy = Dark Armor
Demons = Fire Armor
Thugs = Willpower-ish

Ninjas = Ninjutsu / Super Reflexes 

Mercenaries = Invuln-ish (body armor themed)
Beast Mastery = Regen-ish / Bio-Armor
Robotics = Energy Aura or FF type defense 

Obviously with only 3 powers to work with these defensive capabilities would leave the commander with a few holes (that could be fixed with IO's just like EVERY other AT). The commander wouldn't need to be entirely "tanky" because his pets would draw some aggro away from him, depending on they playstyle of the player. He would just need to have enough survivability to not get immediately demoted to floor inspector. EDIT: (You COULD get rid of the last pet (the big one) and replace it with a defensive power also, giving you 4 total, food for thought as well...)

 

Then we would have to get into what the passive would be... 

Masterminds have Supremacy:
 

A good Mastermind knows how to manage his Henchmen. The Mastermind imparts a bonus to his Henchmen's Accuracy and Damage only if he is nearby and has line of sight.

Supremacy gives +25% Damage and +10% ToHit. It has a radius of 60'.

So then a Commander could have, Tactician (or whatever you want to call it):
 

A good Commander knows how to keep his soldiers ready for battle. The Commander imparts a bonus to his Soldier's Defense and Resistance only if he is nearby and has line of sight.

Tactician gives +10% Defense  (Melee, Ranged, and AoE) and +25% Resistance to all. It has a radius of 60'.

 

That would help shore up the Commanders lack of ability to keep his/her pets alive a little better.

I know it probably isn't a perfect solution, but I can see this being workable so long as the appropriate base index values (damage, secondary effects, etc) are set such that the AT wouldn't be OP.

Edited January 28, 2022 by th0ughtGun

[AgentForest]

I'd been toying with the idea of an AT like this for a while.  I also am sold on having the Assault set as a primary and the pets as secondary.  My main concern is pet and personal durability.

The best way I can see to do this is that, because your pets are secondary sets, they have lower damage scaling, but benefit from any of the "armor" effects you grab from where the attacks used to be in the pet powers.  If you have some Dark Armor style toggles on, so should your undead.  If you have barriers and armor plating on, so should your robots.  Your pets just don't have the damage output a Mastermind's pets would have, and you don't provide the utility and support a Mastermind would.  Instead, you're shifting the damage more toward you, and making the pets harder to get rid of.

I also feel like a way to differentiate it from the Mastermind would be granting the pets a reduction to the AoE damage they take in exchange for making it so you can't order them around in complex ways.  You could get stances like Defensive and Heel, but not direct orders, making the pets focus any targets you've damaged, prioritizing your current target.  You wouldn't need the "attack" order if you can just hit an enemy to make the pets start fighting.  This would make it a very easy to play pet class than MM without making MM obsolete.  I'd imagine it feeling more like a scrapper in that you're able to take a few hits, but don't really have to think much beyond "kill things".  You just have average damage, bolstered by your minions.

[AgentForest]

As for what defensive powers each minion set should provide, I feel like the pets should be made T1, then the following would fit.  I drew many of the following moves from Sentinel power sets, as they were made to work better with sets that include ranged attacks.  I also feel most of these should provide some level of bonuses to the pets as well if they're near you.  Like, a small heal and increase to max HP if you pop Dull Pain, a regen boost if you have Up to the Challeng on, etc.  Smoke Flash would be a larger area and stealth your ninjas too.  But generally, these are the only survival moves you'd have room for, so they'd have to get their mileage through helping your pets too.

 

Ninjas: Ninjitsu

T2: Ninja Reflexes
T3: Danger Sense

T5: Shinobi-Iri
T7: Smoke Flash

 

Necromancy: Dark Armor

T2: Dark Embrace
T3: Murky Cloud

T5: Obscure Sustenance
T7: Cloak of Fear

 

Robotics: Energy Aura

T2: Kinetic Shield
T3: Power Shield

T5: Energize
T7: Power Armor
 

Demon Summoning: Fiery Aura

T2: Fire Shield
T3: Plasma Shield

T5: Cauterizing Blaze
T7: Molten Embrace

 

Mercenaries: Invulnerability
T2: Temporary Invulnerability
T3: Invincible

T5: Environmental Resistance
T7: Dull Pain

 

Thugs: Willpower

T2: Mind Over Body
T3: Up to the Challenge

T5: Heightened Senses
T7: Resurgent (can self-rez, but also usable as a sort of Dull Pain if not downed, like Second Wind)

 

Beast Mastery: Regeneration/Super Reflexes

T2: Focused Fighting
T3: Focused Senses (maybe modified to grant some AoE defenses like Danger Sense, or work AoE defense into the pet roar buffs and grant them to you too)

T5: Instant Regeneration (providing both Absorb shields and a flat regen bonus at all times since Integration would have granted CC protection)
T7: Second Wind (can self-rez, but also usable as a sort of Dull Pain)

[AlwaysAPrice]

I rather like this AT concept just because if it existed, I think it would actually shore up the Mastermind's "class identity" rather than detract from it. The Mastermind's Support secondary means it doesn't just empower its minions, it enhances its whole team's performance, treating other players as additional minions in a way. The Commander would provide a nice contrast to that with a focus on individual offense (I like the set-up of Assault Primary/Pets Secondary with the attacks in the pet sets changed to thematically appropriate defensives), and conceptually fits the different pet-centric role of lieutenant/elite henchman/squad leader that Mastermind isn't that good a fit for. The only thing I would want not to be overlooked is having Assault options that mesh with the themes of the pet sets, which could be a good bit of extra work since most MM attacks use weapons, which no current assault sets do (except for Martial, somewhat, which could take the place of archery powers to provide an Assault match to Ninjas).

[biostem]

13 hours ago, AgentForest said:

The best way I can see to do this is that, because your pets are secondary sets, they have lower damage scaling, but benefit from any of the "armor" effects you grab from where the attacks used to be in the pet powers.

I wonder if the armor powers could all be made into 25' or 50' auras, then benefitted you and your pets...