Who's good at estimating DPS? Or, the curious case of Fire/Fire

[oedipus_tex]

I played a Fire/Ice to 50, and if I'm being honest, I was disappointed with the results. I thought that the combo of Fire and Ice's damage auras would be complementary, but the endurance bar drain was too substantial given how endurance heavy Dominators are to start.  

 

I've rerolled as Fire/Fire. The results have been good. Consume shelters me from endurance bar crashes, which is extremely helpful. But also there is synergy between Fire/Fire, most due to Embrace of Fire being such a huge bonus. Even though it can only be up 50% of the time, the 85% fire damage bonus goes a long way.

 

 

Anyway, one area I'm not very good is figuring out attack chains and optimal damage. My feeling is that this character has extremely good damage compared to my other Dominators. But I'm a little shy of being able to calculate attack chains well. It's also been ages since I played Fire Assault so may even be off base on which attacks are optimal.

 

During Embrace of Fire, Blaze for example with one stack of the Dom ATO appears to have a DPA close to 625. That's before factoring in the debuff from Sleet. 

 

 

 

I also think this is best way to slot Char. Just proccing it out. Not 100% sold if there are better options. I can reliably stack the Dom ATO 3 times this way, sometimes four, so that's adding around 60-80% total damage on top. I figured with all that plus damage proccing the rest of the power is the way to go. Again this shows the period of time when Embrace of Fire is up.

 

 

 

(Yeah I know I probably need to close the 2% gap and cap Slash/Lethal def. But didn't want to wait to post. 🙂 )

 

 

 

 

I took Sleet on the theory that the -Resist combined with Hot Feet and the damage chain ends up outdamaging Fireball/Rain of Fire. I have no hard evidence of this and could be persuaded. On a team, of course, Sleet is probably superior.

 

 

Any numerically minded people want to take up the number crunch challenge?

 

 

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Char -- UnbCns-Dam%(A), GldNet-Dam%(3), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(3), NrnSht-Dam%(5), SprAscoft-Rchg/+Dmg%(5), GldJvl-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Flares -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- PstBls-Dam%(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(11), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(11), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(13)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 6: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Hot Feet -- SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 10: Fire Blast -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(21)
Level 12: Flashfire -- SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(23), SprAscoft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(23), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(25), PstBls-Dam%(27)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(43)
Level 16: Embrace of Fire -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Cinders -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(27), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(29), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(29)
Level 20: Tactics -- RctRtc-Pcptn(A)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Bonfire -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(31)
Level 28: Consume -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-%Dam(31), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(33), Obl-Acc/Rchg(33)
Level 30: Victory Rush -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(A), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(34), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(34), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(36), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 35: Blazing Bolt -- GldJvl-Dam%(A), StnoftheM-Dam%(36), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(37), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(37), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 38: Blaze -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apc-Acc/Rchg(39), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(40), GldJvl-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Sleet -- IceMisTrmt-Dam/Slow(A), IceMisTrmt-Dam/Rech(42), IceMisTrmt-Acc/Dam/End/Rech(42), IceMisTrmt-Acc/Dam/End(42), IceMisTrmt-End/Slow(43)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(45), GldArm-3defTpProc(46)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Artl-End/Rech/Rng(A), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(48), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(48), Artl-Dam/Rech(48), Artl-Dam/End(50), Artl-Acc/Dam(50)
Level 49: Hibernate -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 1: Domination 
Level 1: Brawl -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(43), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(9)
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
------------

Edited February 16, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[Pzn]

This is definitely one of the highest damage dom combos.  It's hard to guess your exact DPS because the dom snipe having a long recharge makes it's hard to pin down an exact attack chain.  You should turn on Arcanatime in mids (Options>config>effects and math) to get a more accurate animation time and then check out the DPS calculator (Window>DPS calc).  Just looking at the breakdown of DPA on attacks I'll be using lets me get a close estimate. 

 

With fire blast and char at 260 DPA and blaze at 526 I would guess that the DPS is 350+ before even accounting for the snipe.  So you are probably pushing closer to 400 DPS with sleet taking you into the range of 500.

 

I didn't even consider hotfeet or multiple ATO stacks so I think my estimates are pretty conservative.  A bit lower when embrace is down but should have enough uptime to average high.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Pzn

[MoonSheep]

a mind/fire is my main and was back on live - one of the reasons the damage feels high (and is high) is because of the extremely short animation times of fire blast / blaze / blazing bolt

 

if you start on a boss using incinerate and then hit them with the blaze/blazing bolt combo it’s incredibly damaging

 

i’ve never worked out the DPS either but i’d imagine the burst damage is up there with the top scrappers etc

[Mezmera]

Fire Control doms with Embrace of Fire running are just going to do some great damage.  The raw damage output of /Fire and /Nrg doms in their ST attacks I'd pit against even the best of the blasters and wouldn't feel inadequate.  

 

Another great thing about the longer recharge on their attacks is it makes slotting procs much more optimal.  Snipes on doms are a great place to get creative and with all the global recharge you're building for they still remain a great part of your attack chain.  

[Outrider_01]

On 2/16/2022 at 2:57 PM, oedipus_tex said:

played a */Ice to 50

I got a dark/Ice dominator, it's beyond disappointing. Power Up is useless, yet /Fire gets a +DMG boost, /Psi gets an amazing +HP/END recovery, /Martial gets a small damage proc and an a pretty decent tohit buff if mids is correct. Still leveling the dominator.

 

The high end attack, has no hold attached like Psi with stun or earth with KB. A single PBAoE and cone attack, ok but not useful. All the single targets are decent but BIB comes way to late yet its a single target unlike snipes or PBAOE, Ice is exclusively single DPS so it should be like lvl 28 for BIB. The toggle makes no sense, it was a plain slow until the buff but the damage is sub par considering the set and is detoggled easily if domination is down. 

 

All ice has is 3 single targets, 2 melee, and the rest are an awkward AoE of various types: Melee, Cone, and a toggle.

 

Then there is Power Up, a 10 sec crappy version of domination (Dom doubles mag, PU just lengthens it...70 sec double mag is pointless when you can just chain cast it).  Sure it's nice for fearsome stares tohit buff, if I wanted to slap them with -25%, if they could hit me when not feared for 80 seconds 🤔🤨😞(they could retaliate but will be dead by the group).

 

/Ice assault need an overhaul focused on single DPS. And something like procing or stacking minor holds with the attacks, the slow doesn't really cut it on mezzed mobs except for AV.

 

[Mezmera]

3 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

I got a dark/Ice dominator, it's beyond disappointing. Power Up is useless, yet /Fire gets a +DMG boost, /Psi gets an amazing +HP/END recovery, /Martial gets a small damage proc and an a pretty decent tohit buff if mids is correct. Still leveling the dominator.

 

Power Up gets you a 34% dmg boost so I don't know where you're getting that it doesn't boost damage.  It is also FAR from useless if you know how to use it.  Power Up boosts your controls to last much longer than any of those other unique powers in the other sets.  Plus it boosts all kinds of other things while still getting you your damage. 

 

I wouldn't trade Power Up from my Energy dom for anything else.  Dark is light on control and more about damage, you might not have a pairing to your liking that benefits very much from what Power Up can do if you're not taking a lot of controls.  

Edited February 18, 2022 by Mezmera

[oedipus_tex]

FWIW I find Ice Assault on the okay but bland side. Power Up is probably the best feature of the set IMO. Note that Power Up on other servers is Power Boost, the damage was added for Homecoming, and the +special durations cut by 5 seconds. TBH I prefer the original Power Boost, but Power Up is nice too.

 

Chilling Embrace is at least better on Homecoming than on live or other servers, where it is legendary for being hands down one of the worst powers in the game's history. (The Jack Frost pet still has this version of Chilling Embrace, a 8ft or so -RunSpeed and -Recharge aura). I like what Homecoming did with it, even if overall I still find it drains a lot of endurance, and endurance is something few Dominators can spare. It's basically Hot Feet-lite, which isn't bad to have. Unfortunately, prior to incarnate levels, few builds can sustain that level of endurance drain while still running enough armor toggles to make a 15ft damage aura toggle worthwhile. 

 

I do wish Ice Assault had either at least one hold or some version of Ice Patch in its set. It doesn't feel particularly "icy" to me. In the past I've suggested that Power Up drop an Ice Patch under the caster. Wouldn't do much for the sets atrocious endurance usage, but would make it more fun.

Edited February 19, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[nihilii]

I had a fire/fire dom a while back that dealt comfortably above 400 DPS with minimal practice.

I think the results were closer to high 500 range with more refinement, but I don't have those numbers on hand. I seem to recall I settled on Blaze -> Blazing Bolt -> Char -> Fire Blast -> Blaze -> Char -> Fire Blast -> [x] as an attack chain, where "x" would be Sleet/Hasten/Ageless/Bonfire/Imps/Hoarfrost. It always felt very powerful.

Your choices look sound to me. Proccing out Char including the dom ATO, getting Sleet, all good stuff.

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by nihilii

[smnolimits41]

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=980&c=419&a=838&f=HEX&dc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

 

Here's my build, i have finished slotting.  It's a Fire/Fire build.  

 

I also have a couple of questions.

 

1)  Do i need Tough and Weave,or is that just for farming ??

2)  What would you change about the build?  I find i mostly team.  Lots of TFs (blue side)

3)  Did the link above work ??

[Outrider_01]

On 2/18/2022 at 2:26 PM, Mezmera said:

Power Up gets you a 34% dmg boost so I don't know where you're getting that it doesn't boost damage.  I

It's still too short of a duration, can eat a couple reds and it lasts longer.  I personally do not care for the status increase to duration but thats me, you can slot for that and enough recharge requires just another application.