Regen for the Masses

[Menelruin]

Breaking cottage rule a bit:  Super Reflexes whole schtick is DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE, but it still has one power that gives scaling RESIST as your HP drops.  What if Regen had one power that gave scaling DEFENSE as your HP drops?  I don't know that SR gives any rationalization for it, but for Regen, you could maybe say enough of your body has been blasted away, you're now a smaller target 😆 

[TheZag]

For a regen overhaul i was considering having an effect as your hp dropped.  But i was thinking more along the lines of increased recharge and enough regen debuff resistance to finish filling the gap once you are around 30-40% hp.  Something like a frenzied regeneration vibe - your regeneration cannot be stopped as your hp decreases and all of your abilities recharge more quickly as a result.

[archgemini24]

9 hours ago, Menelruin said:

Breaking cottage rule a bit:  Super Reflexes whole schtick is DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE, but it still has one power that gives scaling RESIST as your HP drops.  What if Regen had one power that gave scaling DEFENSE as your HP drops?  I don't know that SR gives any rationalization for it, but for Regen, you could maybe say enough of your body has been blasted away, you're now a smaller target 😆 

 

I think the rationalization for SR was that when they are closer to defeat, they enter something like bullet-time where they turn the full impact of attacks into glancing blows and blows at less vital points.

 

As far as Regen getting near-defeat bonuses, I do not think you need to break the Cottage rule for that: the powers would still perform the functionality that they started with and have the slotting options. It would just be an unenhanceable add-on similar to SR's passives. At this point, cascading defensive failure might have already set in due to debuffs the character has already been hit with (could these be coded to be debuff immune?), but this could also have the side-effect of acting as debuff avoidance (debuffs can't affect what they don't hit). The only issue would be if the character regenerated or healed enough to shed the defense bonuses, then immediately ate a follow-up wave of attacks. SR has the same problem to a lesser degree, but they do not have an in-set way to heal themselves out of losing that Resistance the way Regens can.

[Naraka]

3 hours ago, archgemini24 said:

 

I think the rationalization for SR was that when they are closer to defeat, they enter something like bullet-time where they turn the full impact of attacks into glancing blows and blows at less vital points.

 

As far as Regen getting near-defeat bonuses, I do not think you need to break the Cottage rule for that: the powers would still perform the functionality that they started with and have the slotting options. It would just be an unenhanceable add-on similar to SR's passives. At this point, cascading defensive failure might have already set in due to debuffs the character has already been hit with (could these be coded to be debuff immune?), but this could also have the side-effect of acting as debuff avoidance (debuffs can't affect what they don't hit). The only issue would be if the character regenerated or healed enough to shed the defense bonuses, then immediately ate a follow-up wave of attacks. SR has the same problem to a lesser degree, but they do not have an in-set way to heal themselves out of losing that Resistance the way Regens can.

 

Just adding stacking debuff resistance (to -rech, -movement, -ToHit, -def, -END and -HP; -regen should just be naturally high without the extra clicks) to all its click powers would likely be more valuable than a scaling +def buff primarily because of those -def debuffs. As is, there are so many sources of these types of buffs and the resists to the debuffs is the premium.  Basically, +def is cheap and the demand is low because of that...but -def resist? I'd wager 5% -def resist on its own is equal to +3% def BUT once you get past somewhere like 15% +def, -def resist value quickly outpaces +def.  Would you rather +25% def from a passive that is quickly stripped away with 1 Quicksand? or +25% -def resist? One you're going to have to brute-force to defend against while the other, it's only a matter of a small purple and 1 application of maneuvers....but not only that, there are *dozens* of other sources of +def to stack with your debuff resistance.

 

You could apply this buff to regen in 2 ways:

 

Basic Click Application- Using Reconstruction, Dull Pain, Instant Healing, Revive and Moment of Glory apply a base +res to all those debuffs but with small amounts and moderate durations, requiring stacking several Recons and Dull Pains to get a decent baseline with Instant Healing and Moment of Glory giving you that fat dump of extra +debuff resists.  This makes the set more oriented to clickiness and making you want to keep all of your clicks in a moderate rotation rather than saving them up too long.

 

Mechanic Power Application- Only certain powers would provide certain debuff resists. For example, Fast Healing would be the basic passive that gives a small amount of debuff resist to -rech while Resilience gives a small amount of debuff resist to -def and -movement....using your click powers then applies multiple stacks of those particular powers' debuff resist as a bonus.  The main difference between this is it emphasizes build comp and allows to skip certain powers if desired but you give up certain debuff resists for it.

 

All in all, on any kind of team with buffs flying around, your Regen will just be that much better than other sets because they fill in the gaps instead of just making them one-man islands of self-sufficiency.

 

Conceptual justification for this change: you get your eyes blasted by bright light or smoke or inky blackness, instead of just suffering through it, you regenerate the damage sustained by your eyes and now you can see again (-ToHit resist); you get your body frozen and wracked with frostbite and you're unable to move...instead of forcing the ice to crack, just rip your flesh off and regenerate that and keep on going at a normal pace (-movement). So on and so forth.

 

If there's any set that deserves to just shrug off a portion of these effects, I'd say it's Regen...but only if you don't overbuff it to make it some competitive powerhouse that leaves many other armor sets in the dust....because if you implemented this idea, Regen would then leave other armor sets in the dust under certain circumstances...and that is more balanced.

[Menelruin]

9 hours ago, Naraka said:

 

Just adding stacking debuff resistance (to -rech, -movement, -ToHit, -def, -END and -HP; -regen should just be naturally high without the extra clicks) to all its click powers would likely be more valuable than a scaling +def buff primarily because of those -def debuffs. As is, there are so many sources of these types of buffs and the resists to the debuffs is the premium.  Basically, +def is cheap and the demand is low because of that...but -def resist? I'd wager 5% -def resist on its own is equal to +3% def BUT once you get past somewhere like 15% +def, -def resist value quickly outpaces +def.  Would you rather +25% def from a passive that is quickly stripped away with 1 Quicksand? or +25% -def resist? One you're going to have to brute-force to defend against while the other, it's only a matter of a small purple and 1 application of maneuvers....but not only that, there are *dozens* of other sources of +def to stack with your debuff resistance.

 

You could apply this buff to regen in 2 ways:

 

Basic Click Application- Using Reconstruction, Dull Pain, Instant Healing, Revive and Moment of Glory apply a base +res to all those debuffs but with small amounts and moderate durations, requiring stacking several Recons and Dull Pains to get a decent baseline with Instant Healing and Moment of Glory giving you that fat dump of extra +debuff resists.  This makes the set more oriented to clickiness and making you want to keep all of your clicks in a moderate rotation rather than saving them up too long.

 

Mechanic Power Application- Only certain powers would provide certain debuff resists. For example, Fast Healing would be the basic passive that gives a small amount of debuff resist to -rech while Resilience gives a small amount of debuff resist to -def and -movement....using your click powers then applies multiple stacks of those particular powers' debuff resist as a bonus.  The main difference between this is it emphasizes build comp and allows to skip certain powers if desired but you give up certain debuff resists for it.

 

All in all, on any kind of team with buffs flying around, your Regen will just be that much better than other sets because they fill in the gaps instead of just making them one-man islands of self-sufficiency.

 

Conceptual justification for this change: you get your eyes blasted by bright light or smoke or inky blackness, instead of just suffering through it, you regenerate the damage sustained by your eyes and now you can see again (-ToHit resist); you get your body frozen and wracked with frostbite and you're unable to move...instead of forcing the ice to crack, just rip your flesh off and regenerate that and keep on going at a normal pace (-movement). So on and so forth.

 

If there's any set that deserves to just shrug off a portion of these effects, I'd say it's Regen...but only if you don't overbuff it to make it some competitive powerhouse that leaves many other armor sets in the dust....because if you implemented this idea, Regen would then leave other armor sets in the dust under certain circumstances...and that is more balanced.

Maybe just have it that Regen inherently recovers from all debuffs faster? 

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, Menelruin said:

Maybe just have it that Regen inherently recovers from all debuffs faster? 

I don't believe there is a way to change durations of effects besides mez effects.

 

If they wanted to add new mechanics to allow that, it could be something to uniquely add to the set.

[Troo]

On 3/8/2022 at 4:00 AM, Menelruin said:

Breaking cottage rule a bit:  Super Reflexes whole schtick is DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE, but it still has one power that gives scaling RESIST as your HP drops.  What if Regen had one power that gave scaling DEFENSE as your HP drops?  I don't know that SR gives any rationalization for it, but for Regen, you could maybe say enough of your body has been blasted away, you're now a smaller target 😆 

 

I see where you are going.

Understand that without any defense debuff protection the attacks that caused the HP to drop would likely have defense debuffs that could easily cancel out any scaling defense.

That's one of the advantages of resist. 

Your idea could potentially be applied to recharge to help heals come back faster or to some of the debuff holes to provide some debuff resistance to mitigate that which can cause regen trouble.

 

[edit] I see some other responses were similar. Didn't mean to pile on but rather acknowledge that the idea could be potentially applied elsewhere and have a more beneficial impact.

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Troo

[MTeague]

21 hours ago, archgemini24 said:

SR has the same problem to a lesser degree, but they do not have an in-set way to heal themselves out of losing that Resistance the way Regens can.

 

No, but I'll tell you.  Slotting a Panacea proc in Health, and a Power Transfer proc in Stamina, goes a long, LONG way on a Super Reflexes character.  Depending on the SR character's other powerset / epic power choices, you might be able to have four different IO's pulsing periodic heals, and of course a Prevenative Medicine absorb, too. It can make them quite resiliant against the occasional whammy that streakbreakers it's way through. 

 

For a Regen character, I'm pretty solidly in the camp that Recharge and Recharge Resistance are the two most important things you can slot for, with Resistance right on their heels for a photo-finish third place.  My spines/regen STALKER sometimes feels more Brute-y in combat than than my energy/energy BRUTE!  (Though to be fair, I've spent a lot more effort optimzing that stalker....)

[archgemini24]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

 

No, but I'll tell you.  Slotting a Panacea proc in Health, and a Power Transfer proc in Stamina, goes a long, LONG way on a Super Reflexes character.  Depending on the SR character's other powerset / epic power choices, you might be able to have four different IO's pulsing periodic heals, and of course a Prevenative Medicine absorb, too. It can make them quite resiliant against the occasional whammy that streakbreakers it's way through. 

 

For a Regen character, I'm pretty solidly in the camp that Recharge and Recharge Resistance are the two most important things you can slot for, with Resistance right on their heels for a photo-finish third place.  My spines/regen STALKER sometimes feels more Brute-y in combat than than my energy/energy BRUTE!  (Though to be fair, I've spent a lot more effort optimzing that stalker....)

 

All fair points. I always figured all the Heal Procs firing could be a huge boon to SR, but hopefully not so much that it made the set too... yo-yo-like above and below the health values needed for bonus Resistance.

 

My Regener built for Defense after Recharge and Recharge Resistance hoping I could avoid most of the initial salvo of attacks and some of debuffs, and then defeat a significant portion of the group and have any debuffs worn off by the second salvo. I'll have to DM you to talk shop, because I would have liked to build for Resistance since I feel it plays better with Regen, but I did manage to get 40% S/L Defense (45 with the Amplifier, but only because the build isn't finished) and damn does it make me almost feel like I have a solid secondary.

[Troo]

2 hours ago, archgemini24 said:

My Regener built for Defense

 

at least this was third.

defense just melts on my regen characters. i'd rather have -tohit and some incidental def that happens chasing regen, recharge, +hp, and damage.

 

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

 

at least this was third.

defense just melts on my regen characters. i'd rather have -tohit and some incidental def that happens chasing regen, recharge, +hp, and damage.

 

 

Well, my /regen is Katana so I've got some defense to spare lol

 

My other regener is Electric Melee and relies on incidental CC which is better...or -recovery to eventually wear down the target to be helpless.

[archgemini24]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:27 PM, Troo said:

 

at least this was third.

defense just melts on my regen characters. i'd rather have -tohit and some incidental def that happens chasing regen, recharge, +hp, and damage.

 

 

Funny you mention -tohit, lol! My Primary is Dark and I run Soul for Darkest Night, so I am stacking -ToHit and some mid-chain healing, as well. Admittedly, the -tohit is reduced in strength, but I manage to get out enough debuffs to prevent the same from happening to me.