Dark/Dark Newb questions

[Snarky]

While not exactly a newb to City of Villains....errrr herderps? IAnd not exactly new to Dark powersets..... Wow! Am I ever new to Controllers.

 

The closest I have come to Controllers is a few times I poked around on Doms, usually Grav/Energy, and most of that back on live for a month here and there.

 

I know nothing about the Controller other than Dark/Dark is pretty good I hear on it.  

 

Can this run regular content solo? (I run on easy settings solo, it is a journey of discovery, power, and laughs for me)  

 

Does anyone have a decent rundown on powers, must takes, whys?  

 

Power slotting choices?  What is a definiely do this, that doesnt work?

 

Complete builds?  🙂 

 

Thanks

[Two Dollar Bill]

Controllers can solo just fine, though slowly, since most of them have mediocre damage output.

 

Dark/Dark has some features which imply a close-range "standing just behind the Tanker" play style.
- You need to be standing right next to someone to heal them with Twilight Grasp.
- Soul Absorption is a team buff which requires nearby foes to power it, so it won't work if you're hiding in the back.
- Fade is your big defense and resistance buff, and it's centered on you. Unless you find a team that likes to gather for buffs before a fight, you will have to chase them down and trigger it during the fight.
- Heart of Darkness is a PBAoE disorient which can stack with Howling Twilight if you really need it.
- Many people take Ghost Widow's Soul Mastery pool for Dark Consumption and Soul Drain to have even more PBAoE powers.

 

A few other odds and ends....
- Haunt is cast like a ranged attack, but it creates two pets that hang around and fight things until they expire. If your target dies before the animation for Haunt completes, the power is wasted and you get no pets, so don't use it on the first minion in the front of a group.
- Shadow Field is your AoE hold but it's a ground target which creates a short-lived area hold. It's a hassle to cast but you can do some curious things with it, like using Fold Space to drag foes inside. I tend to use Heart of Darkness / Howling Twilight instead since they both recharge faster and don't need to be ground-targeted.
- If you have money to burn on purple sets, or you don't mind slotting everything for maximum +recharge, you can get "perma" Fade and be unnaturally durable for a Controller. I've never had quite that much recharge on mine, but it's something to consider.

[oedipus_tex]

IMO the key to soloing with a Controller is understanding two major things, 1) Containment  and 2) damage procs.

 

Containment is the easier of the two IMO. It's a straightforward doubling of (enhanced) damage. If your power says it hits for 50 after enhancements, it now hits for 50 +50 = 100. Containment damage benefits from +global damage like from Fulcrum Shift.

 

You mentioned Gravity Dominators. What may surprise you is that with Containment, Gravity's Propel and Lift actually do more damage on a Controller than on a Dominator. That's because although the Controller Ranged Modifier is 0.55 compared to a Dominator's 0.95, x2 0.55 = 1.10. Controllers with Containment have better mods than Defender (0.65), Corruptor (0.75), and are actually pretty close to Blasters (1.125).

 

The catch of course is Controllers generally don't have access to T2 or T3 blasts, nor do they get Aim or Build Up, or nukes. So although they can put out some pretty fierce damage mods in theory, the challenge is the actual powers aren't all that suited to receive it, with a few exceptions:

• Hot Feet 
• Lift
• Propel
• Spectral Wounds
• Fireball, etc in the APPs

Note: "true" pets like your dark doggie and the Dark Servant do not benefit from Containment. Some pseudo pets do and other do not.

 

 

Additional sidenote, you get free Containment damage when attacking an iTrial raid boss even if they are not immobilized, held, slept, or stunned. To get containment versus an AV I believe you do need to immobilize or sleep them (it's been a very long time since I really paid attention tbh). 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Procs are a more complex topic because they vary so widely, as do the ways to apply them. For starters though, there are some powers that benefit greatly from procs:

• Single target holds, especially in fast casting powers like Mind and Fire (Dark's is not particularly fast casting but still worth proccing). Some of these can get wild DPAs in the 400s if they land while -resist debuffs are applied 
• The Stone APPs Seismic Smash
• Powers in the secondary like Ice Arrow, Acid Arrow, and Poison Trap
• Powers that apply multiple attrib types that can be procced, like Heart of Darkness 
• Plant's Carrion Creepers 

 

As a reminder, proc damage doesn't help Containment. Proc damage is boosted by -Resist, like from Tar Pit, though. This can make calculating your actual damage difficult on Controllers. To see what you're doing in Mids, turn off procs to see the potential number that is multiplied by Containment. Turn them back on and do some subtraction to see where damage is added back. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[DocMidknight]

  So my main for like.....ever or since homecoming came around. The original Doc M was a dark/dark defender but I really preferred the control aspect and with the dark affinity release this made it so much better. I usually run Doc with 4/8 setting when soloing to great results but do have to use some smarter tactics against a few enemies but on a team.......with soul absorption and fade buffing the team you won't be at a loss for happy teammates. Proc out a few powers and watch things melt.....just wish I had more slots but then again this build has been set for a while with no updates since early 2021.

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Doc Midknight Final: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Darkness Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Grasp -- Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Rchg(3), Apc-Dam%(3), GldJvl-Dam%(5), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(5), UnbCns-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- CldSns-Acc/Rchg(A), CldSns-%Dam(7), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(9), CldSns-ToHitDeb(9), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(27), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Darkest Night -- HO:Enzym(A)
Level 6: Possess -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(11), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(11), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(13), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(19), CrcPrs-Conf%(19)
Level 8: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(13), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(15), BlsoftheZ-Travel(17)
Level 10: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 12: Howling Twilight -- Ann-ResDeb%(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(17), ShlWal-Def(23)
Level 18: Haunt -- SlbAll-Build%(A), CldSns-ToHitDeb(21), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(21), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(23), GlmoftheA-Dam%(25), CldSns-%Dam(50)
Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Fearsome Stare -- CldSns-%Dam(A), GlmoftheA-Dam%(25), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(46)
Level 24: Fade -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(31), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 26: Shadow Field -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(31), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(33), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(34)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(29), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(29), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(31), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(42), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 30: Heart of Darkness -- Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Rchg(34), Arm-Dam%(36), ScrDrv-Dam%(36), Obl-%Dam(36), Erd-%Dam(37)
Level 32: Umbra Beast -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), CldSns-ToHitDeb(37), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(39), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(39), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Dark Embrace -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(39), GldArm-ResDam(40)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-ToHitDeb(40), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(40), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(42), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(43), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(43), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 44: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Weave -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def(48), Rct-Def/EndRdx(48), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), EndMod-I(46)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 10: Afterburner 
------------

[Onlyasandwich]

@oedipus_tex's breakdown of overall controller damage potential is on point.

 

@Two Dollar Bill's power highlights are also very accurate.

 

For those they didn't touch on:

• Don't sleep on the potential to use your T1 immob as a blast, especially in early levels. It does equivalent damage to the blast power in most epics. Not required, but useful if you have room and aren't investing heavily in an epic pool or the blast there seems out of theme.
• Living shadows is never going to be a nuke, but you can do a deceptively useful amount of damage over time with a bit of acc and the Energy Font proc.
• Possess is an amazing solo tool, and really opens up with the Contagious Confusion proc. Still useful on teams to bring problem mobs like ffgens and Tsoo sorcs to your side, but a little slow.
• Your opener could either be Fearsome Stare or Heart of Darkness. I would grab both and rotate as needed. Both will also take some good damage procs, allowing you to incorporate respectable damage into your normal aoe control cycle.
• Shadow Field is a perfectly decent power, but actually one of the few aoe holds I might consider skipping if tight on powers. This is not due to it being bad, but because your needs will be quite well served elsewhere. Still useful as a backup.
• Darkest Night is less useful in this combo than on a Defender, as you will have not only strong lockdown, but also strong tohit debuff in your other powers already. Not a bad one slot wonder with an Enzyme Exposure for truly chaotic situations.
• Shadow Fall is of course always great - consider hybrid slotting for both defense and resist.
• Black Hole is poopoo garbage. I even like other powers like Dimension Shift situationally, but this power is obnoxious. I'd rather have jump kick.
• Proccing strategy for your pets will be a big part of your damage. Cloud Senses damage proc will go off for literally all of Dark Servant's powers, making it ideal. Other procs here will only go off on one power, and aren't so useful (hold procs, heal procs). Both tohit and fear procs are pretty decent on Haunt, as they have one power for each and rotate each decently well.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Onlyasandwich
backwards words

[oedipus_tex]

Special note on Fearsome Stare: there are multiple ways to slot this power, and none of them are wrong. It's an interesting power because how you slot it can radically change how it works.

 

If you put a damage proc in it, it will proc frequently but no longer be "safe" to cast from range. Enemies fear'ed by the power still strike back. For this reason, on Dominators I don't proc damage in it. On a Controller it's a different story because you may feel safer, given you have a whole buff/debuff set to work with, and easy access to heals. Just be aware when you start fighting end game enemies, the hail of return fire you get from opening with this power can be a lot to deal with. 

 

If you put -ToHit in it (highly recommended) it's more of a ToHit debuff. This is how I usually slot it on Controllers.

 

More of a Dominator thing, the power is an excellent place to put that class's +global Damage ATO. This is very play style dependent because sometimes there are better spots for the proc. (When the proc fires it does not allow an enemy counter strike).

 

One proc I've never played with is Unspeakable Terror: Chance to Disorient. I imagine proccing it and being able to position yourself with Heart of Darkness fast enough is difficult to pull off. 

 

 

OTOH, Heart of Darkness absolutely stacks with the Earth APP's Fissure. Although the chance to Stun is only 50% it's still pretty effective, especially if you're willing to hurl the occasional Howling Twilight offensively. 

[Onlyasandwich]

Another consideration is Combat Teleport, assuming it fits your concept of course.

 

Getting into range quickly for HoD is a neat trick, and being able to back out with a quick keybind womp womp is perfect for throwing your cones (Fearsome, Living Shadows). This lets you dance around as needed very smoothly. 

 

I personally use this set of binds to be able to pop in any direction around the battlefield however I please. Incorporating them was a real game changer!

 

bind Lshift+W powexec_location forward:max combat teleport

bind Lshift+A powexec_location left:33 combat teleport

bind Lshift+D powexec_location right:33 combat teleport

bind Lshift+S powexec_location back:33 combat teleport

 

This lets you hold shift plus a directional key and instantly pop in that direction. I also bind lshift+f to "powexeclocation Target Combat Teleport" so I can pop straight to the target of my choice. Also good for playing catchup with the team through cave walls. 😄 

 

You can play with the range numbers here to match your preference for best cone alignment. I find 33 back is pretty universally good.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[oedipus_tex]

8 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

bind Lshift+W powexec_location forward:max combat teleport

bind Lshift+A powexec_location left:33 combat teleport

bind Lshift+D powexec_location right:33 combat teleport

bind Lshift+S powexec_location back:33 combat teleport

 

 

This is hot. Thanks for sharing the commands. I've long been too lazy to look them up.

 

I agree Combat Teleport on Dark Control is a huge help. I mainly just /macro TLPT powexeclocation target "combat teleport" to teleport right to the feet of whoever I have selected. Can be a big help if OP decides to go with the Earth APP, since you can TP right to a bosses feet and hold them instantly.  

[Onlyasandwich]

3 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

/macro TLPT powexeclocation target "combat teleport" to teleport

For sure! I bind this to lshift+f myself for easy access. Whatever fits you fingers.

 

I'm typically using the target and the back binds most frequently. 

[Uun]

Living Shadows works well as a proc bomb. It takes at least 6 damage procs, plus the Annihilation -res proc.

 

I slot Dark Servant with a combination of Cloud Senses (including the proc) and Touch of the Nictus. Fluffy spams Twilight Grasp quite a bit.

[Onlyasandwich]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

Living Shadows works well as a proc bomb.

It takes a ton of procs, but they aren't super impactful. The energy font proc works out pretty well, but regular damage procs will not contribute much due to proc rates. It's a fun place to throw them if you have extra slots, but would be a lower priority if other damage opportunities are under slotted.

 

You also want to be sure it has the accuracy to hit.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[Lyrium]

On 3/28/2022 at 1:49 AM, DocMidknight said:

  So my main for like.....ever or since homecoming came around. The original Doc M was a dark/dark defender but I really preferred the control aspect and with the dark affinity release this made it so much better. I usually run Doc with 4/8 setting when soloing to great results but do have to use some smarter tactics against a few enemies but on a team.......with soul absorption and fade buffing the team you won't be at a loss for happy teammates. Proc out a few powers and watch things melt.....just wish I had more slots but then again this build has been set for a while with no updates since early 2021.

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Doc Midknight Final: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Darkness Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Grasp -- Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Rchg(3), Apc-Dam%(3), GldJvl-Dam%(5), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(5), UnbCns-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- CldSns-Acc/Rchg(A), CldSns-%Dam(7), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(9), CldSns-ToHitDeb(9), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(27), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Darkest Night -- HO:Enzym(A)
Level 6: Possess -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(11), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(11), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(13), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(19), CrcPrs-Conf%(19)
Level 8: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(13), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(15), BlsoftheZ-Travel(17)
Level 10: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 12: Howling Twilight -- Ann-ResDeb%(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(17), ShlWal-Def(23)
Level 18: Haunt -- SlbAll-Build%(A), CldSns-ToHitDeb(21), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(21), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(23), GlmoftheA-Dam%(25), CldSns-%Dam(50)
Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Fearsome Stare -- CldSns-%Dam(A), GlmoftheA-Dam%(25), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(46)
Level 24: Fade -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(31), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 26: Shadow Field -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(31), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(33), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(34)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(29), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(29), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(31), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(42), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 30: Heart of Darkness -- Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Rchg(34), Arm-Dam%(36), ScrDrv-Dam%(36), Obl-%Dam(36), Erd-%Dam(37)
Level 32: Umbra Beast -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), CldSns-ToHitDeb(37), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(39), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(39), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Dark Embrace -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(39), GldArm-ResDam(40)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-ToHitDeb(40), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(40), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(42), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(43), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(43), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 44: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Weave -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def(48), Rct-Def/EndRdx(48), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), EndMod-I(46)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 10: Afterburner 
------------

 

How do you have enough damage for +4/x8? I see Dark Obliteration as the only aoe power?

 

I just returned recently and wanted to rescue my old D/D troller (like you, I started back in Union as D3). I like this build a lot, I'm just not getting where do you get the aoe damage 🙂

[DocMidknight]

@Erhnam.....heart of darkness proc'd out can do insane amounts of damage, toss in puppy and the haunts........not much left to do but pick off the stragglers

[Lyrium]

17 hours ago, DocMidknight said:

@Erhnam.....heart of darkness proc'd out can do insane amounts of damage, toss in puppy and the haunts........not much left to do but pick off the stragglers

Understood, can't wait to try it 🙂