justicebeliever Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Redside has always been less populated. Always. I imagine that it's only moreso now that all ATs are available on both sides. Incentivising villains with extra xp, inf or merits won't work - unless it's so off the scale good that it outdoes blueside teaming, blueside TFs, maybe even blueside AE, and all that will do is annoy players who already like redside and find themselves being involuntarily PL'd by the game itself. I think the only way to bring people over to the Isles is to point out that there's a lot of good story and atmosphere that they're missing out on if they never leave Paragon City. I think we know that there is a sizable amount of player base that will go anywhere they can get more inf, merits, and/or xp. There are some (me) who won’t go regardless of the offer, and there are some to whom those 3 specific rewards won’t motivate them. But let’s not kid ourselves that XP/Merit/Inf gain is not a motivating factor for most of the player base. If the problem is that redside needs more people team, why not test a double XP week for redside? Who does it hurt? No one. Will it be a magic bullet? Probably not, but if the stories and lore are so good, then no doubt many will stay once the XP disappears and the problem becomes smaller. And smaller problems are better than bigger ones. "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Jackson Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Redside has always been less populated. Always. I imagine that it's only moreso now that all ATs are available on both sides. Incentivising villains with extra xp, inf or merits won't work - unless it's so off the scale good that it outdoes blueside teaming, blueside TFs, maybe even blueside AE, and all that will do is annoy players who already like redside and find themselves being involuntarily PL'd by the game itself. I think the only way to bring people over to the Isles is to point out that there's a lot of good story and atmosphere that they're missing out on if they never leave Paragon City. I think we know that there is a sizable amount of player base that will go anywhere they can get more inf, merits, and/or xp. There are some (me) who won’t go regardless of the offer, and there are some to whom those 3 specific rewards won’t motivate them. But let’s not kid ourselves that XP/Merit/Inf gain is not a motivating factor for most of the player base. If the problem is that redside needs more people team, why not test a double XP week for redside? Who does it hurt? No one. Will it be a magic bullet? Probably not, but if the stories and lore are so good, then no doubt many will stay once the XP disappears and the problem becomes smaller. And smaller problems are better than bigger ones. Everyone can have double xp these days so I would say make it quad xp but toons that accept quad xp can never side switch at most being Rogues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikis Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Why not join an active supergroup? We hold "terrible Tuesdays" where we all play villains together. If only it were "Mettlesome Mondays" where you play heroes on Mondays only, and the rest of the week you play villains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justicebeliever Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I think we know that there is a sizable amount of player base that will go anywhere they can get more inf, merits, and/or xp. There are some (me) who won’t go regardless of the offer, and there are some to whom those 3 specific rewards won’t motivate them. But let’s not kid ourselves that XP/Merit/Inf gain is not a motivating factor for most of the player base. If the problem is that redside needs more people team, why not test a double XP week for redside? Who does it hurt? No one. Will it be a magic bullet? Probably not, but if the stories and lore are so good, then no doubt many will stay once the XP disappears and the problem becomes smaller. And smaller problems are better than bigger ones. Everyone can have double xp these days so I would say make it quad xp but toons that accept quad xp can never side switch at most being Rogues. Yes, it would be double whatever your current XP gain is, if you already boost to double XP, it would be quad. Imposing restrictions on this (like you can't change alignment) means a.) it won't have a lot of takers, b.) those takers will be PISSED when they find out later (rightfully so) they can't switch because no matter how it is communicated people will miss the fine print, and c.) Now we have moved from simpler solutions - temporary boost to redside XP, to more heavy duty coding solutions (restricting alignment) without even knowing that there would be benefit. /Jranger to that... How would it hurt if for a week/month, redside (and to be clear, we need to include Praetoria in this as well) got double XP? I don't see how it would hurt me on the blueside at all. And it seems like it would definitely help on the red... "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clave Dark 5 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Assuming that individual players will play the content they wish to play, coupled with the fact that alignment can be changed at will, why would playing one side or the other need incentivization? Why assume that? Why not assume there are a number of factors guiding their choices such as wanting to play where everyone else is playing, for example. Another interesting point I see being used here is "red side has always been lower pop" which is true, but that never stopped me from PUGing until near close when it seemed most everyone was only playing their 50s; PUGing now is nigh impossible, at least at the hours I tend to play (Late because of shift work)*. The pop was low, but not like this. The other side of that is "OK, so it's always been low, why not work to fix that?" Why leave it "broken" that way? *Coincidentally, when that pop shift happened near closing, I finally had to give up and create some heroes to play, just so I had the chance to PUG or team. Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney: Matt (Posi) used to say that players would find the shortest path to the rewards even if it was a completely terrible play experience that would push them away from the game... ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise. This game isn't hard work, it's easy! Go have fun! ╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikis Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Assuming that individual players will play the content they wish to play, coupled with the fact that alignment can be changed at will, why would playing one side or the other need incentivization? Why assume that? Why not assume there are a number of factors guiding their choices such as wanting to play where everyone else is playing, for example. Another interesting point I see being used here is "red side has always been lower pop" which is true, but that never stopped me from PUGing until near close when it seemed most everyone was only playing their 50s; PUGing now is nigh impossible, at least at the hours I tend to play (Late because of shift work)*. The pop was low, but not like this. The other side of that is "OK, so it's always been low, why not work to fix that?" Why leave it "broken" that way? *Coincidentally, when that pop shift happened near closing, I finally had to give up and create some heroes to play, just so I had the chance to PUG or team. I agree wholeheartedly, I played red only on Live (except for a short stint to power level a hero to 50 just to unlock Warshades, but that stint was about 2 hours long and I never left Atlas, it was right when AE was released). Here, I play red only and there is a difference, at least between here and Virtue. I could easily get a PuG going during my usual play times, which admittedly were mostly prime time. Here, while I'm off work for a bit, finding a team redside in the morning has been painful. The issue aren't players who are blue only, the issue are the ones who are willing to do both, but have no reason to come red side (because reading the amazing content found here is of no interest to them, as they won't read the content in Paragon City either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlindGirl Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Everlasting usually has a more even hero:villain ratio than other servers, and it's probably not a coincidence that it's also the unofficial RP server, where more of the population is likely to care about the quality of the writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiarius Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Why assume that? Why not assume there are a number of factors guiding their choices such as wanting to play where everyone else is playing, for example. The concept that you do the things you wish to do encapsulates all those factors. In other words, given freedom of choice, it's a reasonable assumption that you're ultimately going to choose based on whichever of a manifold of factors presents itself most strongly. If you're deliberately making a decision to play one thing instead of another, even though the second option offers better opportunity for some facet of gameplay (e.g. grouping), then the determinant in making that choice was that you were willing to sacrifice what you're losing in order to get something of greater value to you personally. Is that not how at least some decision-making works? You minimize the loss, or maximize the gain, based on personal preference. And in this case you can do BOTH-- the mechanic is already in place for you to play to whatever your preferred style at any time. You can play one way today, and a completely different way tomorrow, if that's your fancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legree Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 How would it hurt if for a week/month, redside (and to be clear, we need to include Praetoria in this as well) got double XP? I don't see how it would hurt me on the blueside at all. And it seems like it would definitely help on the red... The only thing double/quadruple/whatever XP would do to Praetoria is screw up the pace of the story. I don't want to be level 15 upon entering Imperial City, or 20+ by the time I reach Neutropolis. Praetoria is also - by design - very story driven, and I doubt that anyone who plays there currently is doing so for any reason other than story, fidelity to character concept and/or challenge.* Even if the zones were higher pop it's still not very team friendly, and again I feel that's by design. I don't see increased XP being that much of an incentive to visit redside either. If a player is that motivated by their rate of XP gain then they'll probably just keep running DFB/DIB or AE anyway, because that'll still be faster and easier XP. *all three of which are likely among the reasons why people play redside too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OEM61 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Why not join an active supergroup? We hold "terrible Tuesdays" where we all play villains together. No offense, but I don't join your SG, or quit it if you tell me "It's Tuesday. You have to play a villain today". Even if you do not, I may end up running my hero while the rest of the SG is running their villain but hey, at least I am on blueside, right? If I need help I can probably find someone. If I decide to run my villain on some day other than Tuesday? Maybe not so much. Let's face it, this is probably a blip; Nothing more. On one day a week some villains might find grouping slightly easier. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you have a massive SG and the redside population is noticeably affected on Tuesdays. But that still doesn't help redside Wednesday through Monday. How would it hurt if for a week/month, redside (and to be clear, we need to include Praetoria in this as well) got double XP? I don't see how it would hurt me on the blueside at all. And it seems like it would definitely help on the red... That is a temporary fix at best. Players jump on redside, level up faster if that it the goal, and then jump to blueside. This isn't only for toons rolled on redside from the start, but some people will just flip their heroes, get to cap, and then flip back. Players that did not want double XP, and I would count myself among that group, wouldn't not only not care, but may actively avoid the faction(s) in question because they just want to play and enjoy the story as they go without having to figure out when they need to turn off XP gain so as not to out-level some content. I won't claim to have any answers here, but whatever the change it has to be something that will not only get people to play redside, but keep people playing redside. Creating a situation where redside gets a boost for a month and then things return to normal is not a "fix". Trying to achieve perfect parity is folly, but I think that the ideal would be that every player would have toons on both sides and that at any given time at least 25% (but no more than 75% because it goes both ways) of the currently logged-in players are playing redside. But that may be folly, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sura Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I run almost all my blueside characters as Vigilantes, and if LFG comes up with a good redside offer I just tool on over to the Isles and join up with those villains to run some missions. Works out great, and there's no Null shenanigans. I had to swap to Rogue to get my Villain Epics, but then I went right back to Vigilante when done. I'm not totally sure why more people don't align Rogue/Vigilante. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clave Dark 5 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Why assume that? Why not assume there are a number of factors guiding their choices such as wanting to play where everyone else is playing, for example. The concept that you do the things you wish to do encapsulates all those factors. In other words, given freedom of choice, it's a reasonable assumption that you're ultimately going to choose based on whichever of a manifold of factors presents itself most strongly. If you're deliberately making a decision to play one thing instead of another, even though the second option offers better opportunity for some facet of gameplay (e.g. grouping), then the determinant in making that choice was that you were willing to sacrifice what you're losing in order to get something of greater value to you personally. Is that not how at least some decision-making works? You minimize the loss, or maximize the gain, based on personal preference. And in this case you can do BOTH-- the mechanic is already in place for you to play to whatever your preferred style at any time. You can play one way today, and a completely different way tomorrow, if that's your fancy. Then it's a pointless thing to assume because of course it works that way. Yes. I read your assumption as the player is making an unfettered choice, "I wanna play hero!" free to go wherever without having to concern themselves with other factors that may leave them going "well, blue side is where everyone is, sooo...." Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney: Matt (Posi) used to say that players would find the shortest path to the rewards even if it was a completely terrible play experience that would push them away from the game... ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise. This game isn't hard work, it's easy! Go have fun! ╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clave Dark 5 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I run almost all my blueside characters as Vigilantes, and if LFG comes up with a good redside offer I just tool on over to the Isles and join up with those villains to run some missions. Works out great, and there's no Null shenanigans. I had to swap to Rogue to get my Villain Epics, but then I went right back to Vigilante when done. I'm not totally sure why more people don't align Rogue/Vigilante. I'm still fuzzy on how that whole system worked, but it sounds like a good idea to me. So if I set my toons as Vig, do I show up on local map searches ("Search For Players" option under the team tab) for whatever side I happen to be on? How about on the other side? Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney: Matt (Posi) used to say that players would find the shortest path to the rewards even if it was a completely terrible play experience that would push them away from the game... ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise. This game isn't hard work, it's easy! Go have fun! ╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justicebeliever Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 k How would it hurt if for a week/month, redside (and to be clear, we need to include Praetoria in this as well) got double XP? I don't see how it would hurt me on the blueside at all. And it seems like it would definitely help on the red... That is a temporary fix at best. Players jump on redside, level up faster if that it the goal, and then jump to blueside. This isn't only for toons rolled on redside from the start, but some people will just flip their heroes, get to cap, and then flip back. Players that did not want double XP, and I would count myself among that group, wouldn't not only not care, but may actively avoid the faction(s) in question because they just want to play and enjoy the story as they go without having to figure out when they need to turn off XP gain so as not to out-level some content. I won't claim to have any answers here, but whatever the change it has to be something that will not only get people to play redside, but keep people playing redside. Creating a situation where redside gets a boost for a month and then things return to normal is not a "fix". Trying to achieve perfect parity is folly, but I think that the ideal would be that every player would have toons on both sides and that at any given time at least 25% (but no more than 75% because it goes both ways) of the currently logged-in players are playing redside. But that may be folly, too. Well in it's entire existance, CoV never performed as well as hoped. As you said, nothing is going to being parity to the game. But that's not the request either. The rquest is to have more players to team with. You are righ that a double XP weekend would drive over a lot of people who will just flip back. But if 20% of the heroes flip over for a weekend, and only 10% stay after readng some of the storylines and interacting the Rogue Isles? That's 90 people, and a 10% increase in the server pop. And that's better. Add to that getting a server flagged as he “Unofficial Villain Server”, and a dedicated forum section, that's better. And better is good No solution is going to be perfect, so you figure what can get you the most bang for the least amount of development cost/time. This just feels like that sweet spot in between. It’s not a magic bullet, or a perfect solution, but a start. There would be consequences (players who might want to turn off XP), but that impact would be temporary "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clave Dark 5 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 The thing to keep in mind about these possible XP bonuses or merit increases or whatever would be that these are "nudges," small treats to get some people to taker a look, whereas currently they are not. Some economist (I think) wrote a book about how a government can encourage people to do something; they can make it law, YOU WILL PLAY REDSIDE AS OFTEN AS YOU DO BLUE OR ELSE, or they can encourage people, nudge them to consider acting a desired way.* And it's easier to reverse or adjust nudges if they're not working out. *Even tho no one here is trying to get people to stay to make more money for the company anymore, we all want players to stay so we have others to play with, right? Having a whopping amount of content sitting unplayed is then something we players should desire other players to spend time with, see? Tim "Black Scorpion" Sweeney: Matt (Posi) used to say that players would find the shortest path to the rewards even if it was a completely terrible play experience that would push them away from the game... ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗ Clave's Sure-Fire Secrets to Enjoying City Of Heroes Ignore those farming chores, skip your market homework, play any power sets that you want, and ignore anyone who says otherwise. This game isn't hard work, it's easy! Go have fun! ╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost49X Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 If the problem is that redside needs more people team, why not test a double XP week for redside? Who does it hurt? No one. Will it be a magic bullet? Probably not, but if the stories and lore are so good, then no doubt many will stay once the XP disappears and the problem becomes smaller. And smaller problems are better than bigger ones. Doing something like that would cause more problems in the long term for those having trouble finding a team. As toons created after that weekend have trouble finding players their level as everyone else are now close to or at cap already. Besides, the type of players this would attract aren't the type to read missions and enjoy lore. They'd stash themselves at the AE or what ever content is rated to be the best xp/min and farm that until they hit cap or whatever their goal is (probably before switching over back to blue). I think the best option is to advertise on other servers, in the forums (here and elsewhere) and recruit like minded people into your SG. Then you can slowly build a community and do content together. The thing to keep in mind about these possible XP bonuses or merit increases or whatever would be that these are "nudges," small treats to get some people to taker a look, whereas currently they are not. Some economist (I think) wrote a book about how a government can encourage people to do something; they can make it law, YOU WILL PLAY REDSIDE AS OFTEN AS YOU DO BLUE OR ELSE, or they can encourage people, nudge them to consider acting a desired way.* And it's easier to reverse or adjust nudges if they're not working out. *Even tho no one here is trying to get people to stay to make more money for the company anymore, we all want players to stay so we have others to play with, right? Having a whopping amount of content sitting unplayed is then something we players should desire other players to spend time with, see? There are indeed nudges that the devs could provide, but it would need to be additional interesting content starting at the lower levels to draw and keep a crowd interested. Bonus xp is just going to be taken advantage of and won't have the desired effect, worse it'll probably have a counter-productive effect unless what you want is more people strictly for level cap content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaeon Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 The fastest way to get people flocking to a certain faction in an MMO is to release new content exclusive to it after a drought. Of course this also tends to create some degree of salt which is part of why new zones in CoX were nearly always dual side zones after CoV's release. "Titan/Bio scrappers are the stealthiest toons in the game." "How's that possible? They don't have any inherent stealth and you'd never take concealment pool powers on them!" "You see; they're perfect at stealth because nobody will notice if there's nobody to notice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00baka Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I run almost all my blueside characters as Vigilantes, and if LFG comes up with a good redside offer I just tool on over to the Isles and join up with those villains to run some missions. Works out great, and there's no Null shenanigans. I had to swap to Rogue to get my Villain Epics, but then I went right back to Vigilante when done. I'm not totally sure why more people don't align Rogue/Vigilante. I'm still fuzzy on how that whole system worked, but it sounds like a good idea to me. So if I set my toons as Vig, do I show up on local map searches ("Search For Players" option under the team tab) for whatever side I happen to be on? How about on the other side? Going Vigilante is more of a change in contacts than anything else. You go Vig, and can now travel to Red side and access the newspaper missions and use Arbiters and quartermasters and such. You can still access all of Blue content, but they turn Inactive while on Red side. You can EARN Red side contacts, but they won’t talk to you until you go full Villain (either through Tips or Null Gull). All of that holds true when going from Red to Blue. Honestly it’s the best way for me to play myself. Make a Hero / Villain, then if I see a Task / Strike Force I want in on, or a team my level searching, I’ll change alignment and hop over to join. With such a small player base, I feel like that should be the standard, and the actual “Hero / Vigilante / Rogue / Villain” titles and powers should be pure flavor. Villain in Paragon? Go ahead! Hero in Rogue Isles? Why not? Opening up the game to everyone would help distribute players better. No one bats and eye at jumping from Steel Canyon to Skyway for level 17 missions, so why not make it that easy to get to a Cap au Diable team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OEM61 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Well in it's entire existance, CoV never performed as well as hoped. As you said, nothing is going to being parity to the game. But that's not the request either. The rquest is to have more players to team with. You are righ that a double XP weekend would drive over a lot of people who will just flip back. But if 20% of the heroes flip over for a weekend, and only 10% stay after readng some of the storylines and interacting the Rogue Isles? That's 90 people, and a 10% increase in the server pop. And that's better. Add to that getting a server flagged as he “Unofficial Villain Server”, and a dedicated forum section, that's better. And better is good No solution is going to be perfect, so you figure what can get you the most bang for the least amount of development cost/time. This just feels like that sweet spot in between. It’s not a magic bullet, or a perfect solution, but a start. There would be consequences (players who might want to turn off XP), but that impact would be temporary Maybe. I didn't consider this while writing, but did think of it later. +1 influence for you. Maybe this would be a way to at least get some people that may have never tried redside to give it a shot, and maybe some of those people might stay, or at least find it interesting enough to revisit from time to time, and some quantity of those people might be amenable to teaming up with others. So it may just be a fraction of a fraction, but it would be something. Worth a try, I suppose. If it results in nothing, if the worst-case scenario plays out and people just use it as a chance to level up faster and everyone ends up back on blueside when it's done, there was no real harm done and life goes on. But I think that the best solution is probably for the villain toons to concentrate on a couple of servers. I know, I know... If you are on a different server then you risk losing your name, but if everyone that really wanted to team up would move to Indomitable (unofficial PvP server) and Everlasting (unofficial RP server) then this "problem" goes away. At least as completely as it can. If they want to keep their heroes and villains together because they want to monitor the chat for both sides then they can move their heroes, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sura Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I run almost all my blueside characters as Vigilantes, and if LFG comes up with a good redside offer I just tool on over to the Isles and join up with those villains to run some missions. Works out great, and there's no Null shenanigans. I had to swap to Rogue to get my Villain Epics, but then I went right back to Vigilante when done. I'm not totally sure why more people don't align Rogue/Vigilante. I'm still fuzzy on how that whole system worked, but it sounds like a good idea to me. So if I set my toons as Vig, do I show up on local map searches ("Search For Players" option under the team tab) for whatever side I happen to be on? How about on the other side? I'm not sure about "Search for Players", I just watch the LFG channel and jump in when I see something that looks good, red or blue side. "A Vigilante will have hero-content mission contacts and access to the hero version of the Ouroboros zone. However, Vigilantes may also move to the Rogue Isles via Cooperative Zones or by using Submariner Janus's submarine. While in the Rogue Isles, a Vigilante can team with Villains and Rogues to do villain-side content, start and engage in Strike Forces, visit the Black Market, and perform Newspaper Missions and Mayhem missions." https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Vigilante_(Alignment) Essentially you can do pretty much everything without changing your alignment. Which is nice when you're actively doing Tips for Merits. When you use Null to change alignments all your Tips progress and any alignment powers you have are lost. I love doing alignment Tip missions, I think they're a little deeper and well done; so not losing progress is something that appeals to me. And from an inspiration standpoint there's a TON of Marvel/D.C./Other characters that would fit into Vigilante/Rogue alignments IMO that I can draw upon. I feel like not many people pay attention to the Vigilante/Rogue alignments and what they can bring to the game, and if more people knew about the possibilities then red side might see more action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiarius Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Were some type of bonus granted, it'd likely need to be such that it only took effect were the player actually grouped, and since multi-boxing is a thing, even that condition is easy to bypass. If the rewards are greater on one side, then it's a pretty simple matter to find a way to turn that to one's advantage while circumventing the intended effect -- earn rewards on one side, send them to yourself on the other, and it hasn't affected one whit on which side people prefer to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OEM61 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Were some type of bonus granted, it'd likely need to be such that it only took effect were the player actually grouped, and since multi-boxing is a thing, even that condition is easy to bypass. If the rewards are greater on one side, then it's a pretty simple matter to find a way to turn that to one's advantage while circumventing the intended effect -- earn rewards on one side, send them to yourself on the other, and it hasn't affected one whit on which side people prefer to play. But it has affected which side they are playing on to get those benefits. I do not have to like playing redside, I just have to play redside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justicebeliever Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Were some type of bonus granted, it'd likely need to be such that it only took effect were the player actually grouped, and since multi-boxing is a thing, even that condition is easy to bypass. An interesting idea...If it's easy enough to do, just make the teaming bonus bigger (there is already an XP boost for teaming). I like that If the rewards are greater on one side, then it's a pretty simple matter to find a way to turn that to one's advantage while circumventing the intended effect -- earn rewards on one side, send them to yourself on the other, and it hasn't affected one whit on which side people prefer to play. So I come back - how does that hurt anyone? Not everyone is going to behave like this...Some people won't go regardless...Some people will go and exploit...Some people will go and have fun and then switch back...And some people will stay. If even 2% of the Hero population continues to play redside, that's a 10% gain for redside content. And even if it fails completely, you haven't spent massive amount of development time failing. The solution is targeted and temporary... Doing something like that would cause more problems in the long term for those having trouble finding a team. As toons created after that weekend have trouble finding players their level as everyone else are now close to or at cap already. Besides, the type of players this would attract aren't the type to read missions and enjoy lore. They'd stash themselves at the AE or what ever content is rated to be the best xp/min and farm that until they hit cap or whatever their goal is (probably before switching over back to blue). I think we are painting this as an all or nothing solution. Unless EVERYBODY goes over to the redside, this doesn't work. Unless EVERYBODY who goes over teams up with someone, this doesn't work. Unless EVERYBODY who switches doesn't stay afterwards, it doesn't work. We aren't trying to get parity between Blue and Red...We just need SOME people to stick around afterwards...those people who have never played redside before, because your first character is a Hero (typically), and then you just stick with what you know. Or those people who feel that NO ONE is on redside, so why bother, or those people who remember fondly playing redside, but just haven't gotten around to it yet. Like I said, a 2% switch from blue to red is a 10% win for redside... So it's not a perfect solution...just a nudge for a small part of the population...But it's a low cost nudge and it's a low risk nudge. There are indeed nudges that the devs could provide, but it would need to be additional interesting content starting at the lower levels to draw and keep a crowd interested. Additional content is great, but that's a high risk move. No doubt the redside population will love it, but if that truly fails to move the needle, that's a lot of effort wasted. Now I also think, it would be great to have an unofficial redside server...It would be great to have a forum for redside...these are even lower cost moves. It would be great if the truly passionate redsiders who have the skills contributed to making redside content... "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiarius Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 The best non-exploitable incentivization would be like a one-shot promotional: +33% rewards for a weekend, or a week or two. Hype it up, advertise it, use whatever marketing tools are to hand. There'd still be some exploiters, but it'd be limited in duration. A perpetual or long-term imbalanced rewards system between red and blue would ultimately create bigger problems than the one it purports to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justicebeliever Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 The best non-exploitable incentivization would be like a one-shot promotional: +33% rewards for a weekend, or a week or two. Hype it up, advertise it, use whatever marketing tools are to hand. There'd still be some exploiters, but it'd be limited in duration. A perpetual or long-term imbalanced rewards system between red and blue would ultimately create bigger problems than the one it purports to solve. Always suggested it be temporary...we are on the same wavelength... "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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