DPS

[meyerwolf406]

Which Mastermind pets have the most DPS either single Target or AOE?

[Arbegla]

The short answer, is it depends.

 

It depends on your secondary, it depends on how many procs you can slot in the pet attacks, and it depends on what you're fighting.

 

But, overall, I think Thugs/, Robots/, and Demons/ have the highest DPS potential, but for different reasons.

 

Thugs/ -> Mostly Lethal/Smash damage, BUT almost all of their attacks have -def, which means you can slot damage procs AND -res procs in them. They also have fire patches with the Arsonist, and lots of cones, so their AoE is really good.

 

Robots/ -> Mostly energy damage, which surprisingly isn't as resisted as you would think. The Assault bot also has Fire Patches and -regen, which is a direct DPS increase as the mobs are healing up the damage you're doing.

 

Demons/ -> Mostly exotic damage (Fire/Cold) and spread out over the different pets. Very few mobs have high resistance to ALL of the damage types ALL at once, so your pets are going to deal a fair amount of damage pretty much all of the time.. They also have -res in their attacks built in, and lots of AoEs.

 

Some of the more 'force multiplier' secondaries are /traps, /rad, /dark, and /thermal. I basically just looked at secondaries that have -res and -regen debuffs that can be set up to be perma pretty easily. Your mileage may vary.

[Riverdusk]

A good comparison of clear times (so dps really) for more "normal" mission running is here:

 

 

As mentioned though, this is just one scenario.  If you are looking at something closer to farming (x8) it is going to shift a bit, if you are looking at AV kill times it is going to shift a bit.  But I think it is a good baseline.  Demons and thugs do well as expected and are top choices.  Beasts also do very well in this test and I think are often underrated.  Bots don't come out so well in this test. 

 

[emeyer406]

2 hours ago, Arbegla said:

The short answer, is it depends.

 

It depends on your secondary, it depends on how many procs you can slot in the pet attacks, and it depends on what you're fighting.

 

But, overall, I think Thugs/, Robots/, and Demons/ have the highest DPS potential, but for different reasons.

 

Thugs/ -> Mostly Lethal/Smash damage, BUT almost all of their attacks have -def, which means you can slot damage procs AND -res procs in them. They also have fire patches with the Arsonist, and lots of cones, so their AoE is really good.

 

Robots/ -> Mostly energy damage, which surprisingly isn't as resisted as you would think. The Assault bot also has Fire Patches and -regen, which is a direct DPS increase as the mobs are healing up the damage you're doing.

 

Demons/ -> Mostly exotic damage (Fire/Cold) and spread out over the different pets. Very few mobs have high resistance to ALL of the damage types ALL at once, so your pets are going to deal a fair amount of damage pretty much all of the time.. They also have -res in their attacks built in, and lots of AoEs.

 

Some of the more 'force multiplier' secondaries are /traps, /rad, /dark, and /thermal. I basically just looked at secondaries that have -res and -regen debuffs that can be set up to be perma pretty easily. Your mileage may vary.

I am currently running a lvl 48 Demon / rad MM  I made last Halloween to play with my son who loves MM's.  I am finding out very quickly that MM's don't get the credit they deserve.  It is a very complex set and way out of my wheelhouse as a tank primary.  

I found a build that on paper (or in mids) look very promising but unfortunately getting my only MM from 32 to 48 and filling in the set enhancements that  I found out the very strict requirements for evasive Maneuvers. witch with my pets spawns add absolutely 0+ def witch mids does not reflect.  So I go from 46.97 melee and 46.71 rang def to 20.9 melee and 19.5 rang.  Witch is part on me for not knowing the powers that are in the set but why post a build with that power activated when you know it doesn't apply other then just to make you number look good.  it very frustrating to new comers to the archetype. 

[Neiska]

@meyerwolf406 As mentioned before, it can vary depending on single target vs aoe, difficulty, damage types. Each pet type has its perks though.

 

Note: This is only the pet sets themselves, not taking things like best favorable scenario or secondary into account. Only "base" primaries as stand-alones.

 

Thugs - Thugs are mostly ranged with a mini-brute to tank for you. It has a good mix of ST and AoE and comes with Gangwar. They aren't the "best" in any particular area, but rank "very good" in all of them. A solid 4/5 in whatever circumstance you put them in. The downside is your mini-brute tends to run off, and your pets free toggles only affect themselves, not you. Which "can" make Thug MMs themselves a but squishier than other MM types. But since they come with both 2 free Tactics toggles and -def, they are more accurate baseline than other pets, which indirectly also boosts their effective DPS.

 

Robots - Robots are the AoE set, and are all ranged. Which means you can use things like group fly/immobilize/holds to out-shoot your enemy, so melee simply never occurs. They are energy type which is good, but the mixed bag with robots is they are a very back loaded set. 80% of your total damage comes from your big robot, and only one of his attacks - missile fire patches. The best way I have found to use this is to stand in your own fire puddles, making things have to come to you, so they stand in it in order to fight you, which you can then trap and CC them into. It is a long climb to level 32 though, so robots don't "exemplar down" as well as other pet types. They also have a lot of knockback, which actually works against you if you are trying to keep things in your fire, so slots are lost with KB to KD slotting. But if you manage all that, Robots are second to none in the AoE department. If you can keep things in your fire, they will melt before your eyes.

 

Demons - Demons are the best ST damage. They have both a mix of damage types and kinds of attack, from ranged to melee, ST to cones, fire, ice, slashing, so on. They have Hell on Earth for a nice buff too, and come with resist buffs and a bit of healing built in. The downside to demons is the noise for some players, as well as being the worst AoE damage out of the "big 3" pet sets. They aren't "bad" at aoe per say, just not as good as the others, but do have a bit of debuffs built in as well, a bit of -resist, a hold, but a bit of -speed.

 

Beasts - Beasts are a bit of a mixed bag. An all melee pet set, with only one area attack on your t3 big dogo. They come with defense, but you have to give up stacking buff mechanic built into the set to utilize it. The pets can crit though, and you can slot them very heavily for damage procs. (Some say they are the best pet set to slot for damage procs, but thats a long conversation.) The issue with beasts is, they seem to be missing a bit of recharge for a full cycle of attacks, so at times they stand there for a moment. Which is problematic for enemies that run. There are various ways to deal with this such as CC or fold space, but it is annoying to deal with constantly. Still, they are a solid pet choice.

 

Ninjas - Ninjas are actually very good DPS. The problem is they are also very squishy. They are a Smashing/Leathal set, with the t3 pet doing fire damage. They are mostly melee attacks with a few debuffs sprinkled in, namely -defense. So Ninjas are sort of the "glass cannon" of pet picks. While not regarded as a top pet pick, they are among the damage-doers, so I felt they were worth mentioning.

 

If you were only concerned with Damage and no other consideration, I would suppose a Thug, Demon, or Ninja /Storm or Kinetics would be the best. The problem would be the playstyle, as /Storm is mostly knockback/knock down with AoE, and Kinetics are mostly a heal and some buffs, but has Fulcrum for a big damage buff. But I imagine this sort of setup might be difficult to play, at least for me personally. Some do fantastic with /Storm but it's not my bag of tea.

 

But there are a lot of other things that determine what your total net effective damage is. With MMs more or less the question is, what are you giving up to push your damage higher, because you can't "have it all."

 

Hope this helps

Edited May 20, 2022 by Neiska

[Neiska]

25 minutes ago, emeyer406 said:

So I go from 46.97 melee and 46.71 rang def to 20.9 melee and 19.5 rang.  Witch is part on me for not knowing the powers that are in the set but why post a build with that power activated when you know it doesn't apply other then just to make you number look good.  it very frustrating to new comers to the archetype. 

 

You can't really trust Evasive Maneuvers, as its defense only applies as long as you aren't doing anything. The moment you do something you lose the DEF bonus. It's main use is to resist -fly powers, and yes it won't affect your pets either. I would make sure you have all of the pet aura IOs that boost their survivability, and fit them in somehow while leveling up. You can always respec and fix your slotting once you are level 50.

 

I have no great experience with /Radiation on MMs, but from what I remember others saying about it is you have to make sure you are applying both Radiation Infection for the -def/-hit and Enervating Field for the -damage/-res, so the two of them together sort of effectively both raise your effective durability and lowers theirs. According to MIDs a fully 6 slotted Radiation Infection is - -31% defense, -30% tohit. And Enervating Field is -22% res and -15% damage. So you are more or less relying on your debuffs to make your pets survive.

 

Aside from that I would boost your pets in any way you can - Maneuvers toggle as always. But I have found Spirit Ward to be a noticeable help too, giving one of your pets a persistent absorb shield. On my Robots/Dark MM the shield actually refreshes before they break it, so my T3 robot more or less never really takes damage. Finally you can take either Bonfire, Electric Fences, or Web Grenade as epic pools no matter what kind of MM you are to add a bit of CC and added damage. You can slot Bonfire for Proc Damage and -Res, and change KB to KD. With enough recharge you can have it up 100% of the time, and thats 45 seconds of enemies flopping about like rag dolls getting wailed on by your enemies, on top of more -res and damage.

 

Sorry I am not a /Radiation expert. Everyone I have asked has said that the MM's got the worst Radiation power pool which is a bummer.

 

Hope this helps! And I think it's really awesome you play with your Son!

[emeyer406]

I hear a lot of talk about EA secondary  so might play around with that. I dont  plan on farming just a lot of teaming with family and friends on TF's.

[Neiska]

13 hours ago, emeyer406 said:

I hear a lot of talk about EA secondary  so might play around with that. I dont  plan on farming just a lot of teaming with family and friends on TF's.

 

/Electric Affinity is very strong, borderline OP. Here are the highlights -

First the set uses a chain mechanic, you target one thing with most of your abilities and it jumps from target to target. You build charges by standing in your cage or using abilities. 

The set has an AoE -10% damage debuff, and a ST -20% debuff, (and yes they stack on one thing for -30%)

 

You have both a heal and a +absorb, both of which are fairly fast to recast.

 

But Faraday's Cage is the real T9 of the set. Fully slotted it provides about 17% all resist, but the main feature is it makes everything inside of the zone immune to many effects, like knockback. This is extended to you, your pets, and team mates. (The only other way to get this effect is from Clarion Incarnate.)

 

You also have a very strong +END tool which refills targets endurance. Fully slotted you gain back more than you use when you cast, which more or less gives you infinite effective END for you, pets, and team mates.

 

So if you are playing /Electric, you sort of more or less get two incarnate features - Clarion and Ageless +END, which leaves you free to take Barrier as a Destiny slot, making an already durable set, even moreso. 

 

The downside to the set is its almost entirely focused on Surviving, which is not everyone's cup of tea. Aside from the two -dam debuffs it has little else to boost your pets. Another downside is the actual T9 "amp up" is nonfunctional on pets, and only works on other players. It also tends to favor melee, due to Faradays Cage and the Chain mechanic. If your targets are too far away, the chain will break and stop.

 

So what you bring to the team is Status Immunity, Resist Buffs, Healing, Absorb, and Infinite END for everyone.

 

Electric is very strong, my favorite secondary along with /Time. It pairs well with Demons, Robots, Thugs, and Beasts. A friend of mine also says it pairs well with Necromancy but I have not yet tried it myself. A special mention goes out to Demons/Electric, which is almost tank like in the levels of punishment it can just brush off. Pretty much everything will be resistance capped, and there are several ways to boost Defense. That combined with bodyguard, absorb, healing, status immunity, etc etc, makes for one very tough cookie.

 

But you might want to look at /Time too, /Time is also quite good with any pet set.

[emeyer406]

Thank you Neiska for that  detailed explanation witch for what I'm finding out is my preferred play style for MM.  A more support role in my team and letting pets and other team members handle the damage aspect of things.   

So with that being said, with that secondary and my playstyle in mind I would love recommendation for a pet primary. I have only played bots (back on live) and this Demon that I just made a few months ago but am no really impressed with.  The lack of damage.  On a +4 ITF after I hit 50 and got all my set bonus enhancements in  place they were still only doing 1's and 4's (and not much of them) with a 20 or 30 point damage from the demon prince here and there.  Could be the build just isnt good enough or what it could be. ill add a link. you guys probably wont be fooled by the number like I was lol.

 

Mastermind - Demon - Radiation.mxd

Edited May 20, 2022 by emeyer406

[Neiska]

@emeyer406

 

Welcomes. 

 

As far as MMs go, Damage is a bit of a quagmire due to all the various things in play. But I will offer what I can.

 

Demons are actually one of the top Damage-Doers as a standalone. Definitely the top ST one, weaker AoE. If you are comparing your damage to say, the hover blaster over there nuking every 60 seconds then yes, your damage will pale in comparison. So I would urge you to keep objectivity in mind. MM's will never be top shelf DPS, but they can be middle shelf DPS.

 

Incarnates

My first question after you hit 50 is did you have your T3 alpha incarnate power? And was it Musculature? A fresh 50 MM will feel weak, no matter how you are slotted. This is because of the level shift mechanic. Your T3 pet is your level, but your other pets are below. Which is even worse if you are on a +4 ITF. For example, if you are on a +4, your T1 pets are effectively fighting things +7 to their respective levels. So the first thing a new 50 MM should get is their T3 Alpha ASAP, because its a fairly significant power boost in pet damage, both for the level shift as well as the 45% damage bonus.

 

My second question is do you have your interface slot? Pet attacks do benefit from the X effect and X damage. It is actually fairly easy to keep the buff capped with MMs, as each of your pets can proc it. I usually recommend Degenerative, for the -Maxhp debuff, which is an effect you cannot get elsewhere.

 

Lastly for Incarnates, you should take Support for your Hybrid slot. You "can" take Assualt, but I felt that was too much effort for too little reward. If you go Assualt you have to use Assualt, then recast all your pets. From then on as long as the pets are in play, they will benefit anytime you re-use your assualt power. But that only lasts until they either A.) Die or B.) you change maps. It "can" work but I felt it was much too gimicky, where as Support is fire and forget. True, it doesn't give as much +damage, but it gives a bit of everything - Damage, Defense, so on.

 

Powers/Build

For Demons specifically, I usually try to fit Enflame in where I can. It is sort of like having another Hellfire Aura in play. I usually put it on my Prince or my Hellfire Gargoyle. You can also slot it for -res and damage procs as well, which I usually do, but I have no idea if it can go off each tic or when its casted. Still either way, it does provide a noticeable area damage boost. I don't recommend taking Enflame on each pet type however, but I have had the best results with Demons and Beasts who need all the AoE they can muster. Plus you can take Shield Ward as a bonus, which is a nice little +absorb shield for your T3 pet.

 

Another source of damage for Demons is your Hell on Earth power. People use it as a mule power but I always put a recharge or two in as well. It is possible with a set like /Time to get enough recharge to make it Perma. With /Rad though I don't think this is reachable. But you can still have more than 50% uptime on it I am sure, which is a nice damage boost as well. You should be recasting it on cooldown anytime you can, just brace for a bit of END drain when it wears off. But it isn't as bad as Gangwar's end drain is.

 

Enhancements

I can't look at your slotting this moment (posting from work), but I will have a look when I get home. But here are a few tidbits -

Soulbound Allegance Build up - Stick this in either your T3 or T2 Pets, depending if you want your big boy to hit harder, or for you T2 to have a stronger hellfire aura.

Damage Procs - Putting one in each of your pets does make a difference.

Tactics - Another chance to build up goes here. It has a very low chance of going off, but every bit helps.

 

I am afraid aside from that, that's all the advice I can offer without actually seeing what you use. But I will take a look when I can and see what you have. Just a bit of forewarning though, I am no /Rad expert. But just a bit of forewarning, even the best MM will never compete with Blaster, Scrapper, or Brute levels of damage. But it is possible to do respectable damage. The good news is you have one of the best pet sets to do so. So I suspect its an Incarnate and Slotting issue.

 

Will post more soon!

[emeyer406]

I do not have any incarnates at this time just hit 50 and just unlocked alpha.  need to unlock the rest and max tier them out  probably wont have that done until vet 35ish but i will definitely prioritize Alpha and Interface 

[Latex]

I do not play MM, but I have heard insane things about Thugs/Storm burst damage being highest in the game, Burnout and double Gang War?

[Neiska]

11 hours ago, emeyer406 said:

I do not have any incarnates at this time just hit 50 and just unlocked alpha.  need to unlock the rest and max tier them out  probably wont have that done until vet 35ish but i will definitely prioritize Alpha and Interface 

 

Hi hi! 

 

Well I had time to take a look at your build, and yes I see a lot of room for improvement. Here's my findings -

1. First off you were missing quite a few of the Pet IOs, thats free defense/resist they were missing.

2. You yourself was missing several unique IOs as well, such as Shield Wall, Steadfast, and Gladiator.

3. You had a few questionable power picks/slotting.

 

So I made another build for you that should be pretty well improved. Here are some features -

1. Swapped Stealth for Sorcery. You will have Mythic Flight for mobility, Shield Ward for your Prince, Enflame for more AoE damage and a -res proc, and Rune of Protection. Why Rune of Protection? Because the Achillies heel to toggle heavy MMs is being Mezzed. Since you are more or less relying on your toggles to make sure pets survive and they can't hit you, being mezzed can be an instant game over, because being mezzed instantly turns off all your toggles. Plus the way I have it slotted it can be a big RES boost and adds some cooldown to boot. 

2. Swapped your Epic pool to Bonfire, I will explain why in a moment. But you should be able to have 100% uptime on it! Its seriously one of the best tools MMs have access to.

3. Added tough/weave, for more self-durability.

4. Added in all the pet Aura IOs. Most of them are on Hell on Earth.

5. My hell on earth will perform much better. Your original cooldown was 226, I got it down to 169 with a duration of 90 seconds, so that's more than 50% uptime.

6. I made room for haste, but didn't have room for burnout. I don't think this setup would perform well with burnout anyway.

7. Your health and stamina were slotted incorrectly. You "really" want chance for hp/end and end procs there, so "any" attack can give you free hp/end.

8. Added damage procs to pets!

9. Added chance of buildup to both your Prince and Tactics. There is room to move them to your T2 pets if you prefer it there.

10. My version has 8% more defense, and about 20% more resist across the board in most resists. So you yourself are much tougher.

11. Lastly, I made the slow on your lingering radiation "much" stronger. Your slow was -60%. How I have it slotted gets that all the way up to -122%.

 

So, here's the details -

You should start with Radiation Infection. It has a -29.53% to hit, when combined with your 30% defense, you are effectively defense capped. Then drop a bonfire. This is to both CC them for 45 seconds, doing more damage, and adding a -res to increase all other incoming damage, but more importantly to keep everything nice and clumped together for your debuffs, which will also give your pets time to do their job. After that, use Lingering Radiation to help keep them trapped and slowed down in your debuffs and AoE. Use Accelerated Metabolism on cooldown to help manage your END. Use Hell on Earth on Cooldown, either on Prince or Hellfire Gargoyle. If you find yourself struggling with END, you can turn off Shield Ward, Mythic Flight, and Enflame. (But you should have enough END to manage fine, I only mention that in case you are under pressure and need to cut some END costs, those 3 are your best bets without affecting your overall performance overly much.)

 

For Incarnates I suggest: Musculature (Core), Degenerative (Both are fine), Ageless (if you find yourself having END issues, if you don't, go Barrier), your Lore pet of Choice, and Support (Core) for your Hybrid.

 

So overall, with my build your debuffs should be stronger, you are tougher, pets are tougher, pets do more damage through procs and added -res debuffs, with some additional tools to help control the fight.

 

And here's some pics of our totals side by side - 

Your totals - 

 

My totals (without RoP) -  

 

Anyway, here is the build! 

 

Let me know if you have any questions! Hope this helps!

 

PS - Made one final tweak, saw that Assault really wasn't worth the END cost, so I re-added Choking Cloud, so you have Knockdown, Slow, and Holds for battle control. How I have it slotted it can also proc a bonus hold. So you really are sort of a Mini-Controller as well, to a point. Combined with all your Debuffs, this actually should perform quite well! Tempted to make one myself! 

 

Demon-Rad-For Emeyer406.mxd

Edited May 21, 2022 by Neiska
Had to edit build

[Neiska]

10 hours ago, Latex said:

I do not play MM, but I have heard insane things about Thugs/Storm burst damage being highest in the game, Burnout and double Gang War?

 

I have heard that as well, but I have very little experience with /Storm. I messed with it once, but it felt strange. Several people swear to it though! I think it's more about using as many recharge pets with knockdown and more damage than debuffs/buffs/healing and so on. Which I am kind of split on. What it does, it should do well, but might struggle elsewhere as you are relying almost entirely on knockdown to protect you and your pets. At least that's how I read it, I could be wrong, as I said I have little playtime with /Storm.

[tidge]

I have no experience with /Storm. I suppose that it offers some chances for %+Recharge, but that isn't what I would do with it. Keep in mind that for the Pseudopet powers it may not be possible to expect much in the way of %procs (some are likely to happen on cast, some may 'tick' at reduced rates... as I wrote, I have no experience with this set) My (offensive) foci would be:

1. Knockback -> Knockdown, as a "soft control" as mentioned by @Neiska; This should be very reliable.
2. %-Resistance, mileage may vary depending on particular power

If there is one excellent reason for a MM to consider spamming attacks, it is to get (PB)AoE -Resistance on enemies so that the henchmen do more damage. If multiple different %-Resistance procs are in play, there is the potential for more -Resistance. If the same %-Resistance proc is in play in multiple powers, there is the potential for longer application of -Resistance. My experience has been that because of the MM AT penalties for Endurance and Damage, it is generally better(*1) to focus on putting the %-Resistance pieces in AoE instead of single-target. I should also note that it is very rare that any of my MMs take attacks until very late in the build. I find that earlier power choices are much more necessary to make the henchmen as effective as possible, and that I need accolades and set bonuses to get Endurance (Max, Discounts) and Recovery to where I need to be to even consider spamming attacks. If I really want to be throwing personal attacks in low-level content, I'll just use P2W powers. I should also note: despite %damage (from procs) being a good option for MM attacks to increase total DPS potential from the MM, I almost always find myself using the attacks to slot for set bonuses plus %-Resistance. YMMV... there is a balance to be found.

 

(*1) "Better" depends on what type of content and what difficulty settings a player will choose.