Bill Z Bubba Posted June 3, 2022 Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) ALL scrappers should get the same taunt aura as brutes. Full stop. The dev decision otherwise is based on a crap decision. Edit: I didn't used to care. But since the changes THEY made, runners are now a ridiculous and aggravating issue. Edited June 3, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba 1 1
Bill Z Bubba Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 21 hours ago, Blackjoy said: There's no backpedaling. Regen is getting more out of Savage than SR. If you're on Excelsior, I'll invite you to come duo and we'll see who can take more punishment. Brewin coffee, about to be online. Let's get this over with.
Bill Z Bubba Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, arcane said: Yall bring enough popcorn for the audience? Meh. It's been an hour. I'm gonna go watch The Boys. 1
Stormwalker Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 11 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said: ALL scrappers should get the same taunt aura as brutes. Full stop. The dev decision otherwise is based on a crap decision. Edit: I didn't used to care. But since the changes THEY made, runners are now a ridiculous and aggravating issue. Yeah, I think the moment that really drove home how ridiculous this is was having the Kronos Class Titan (the one in-mission, not the Giant Monster one) run from me. That is not a thing that should happen. 2
Bill Z Bubba Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 Rant to Follow: Time for a relevant story. Back before the snap, before the AT IOs, I did all the math and found brute damage was so damn close to scrapper damage while brutes had more HP (and thus more benefit from the scaling damres in SR, that it made absolutely ZERO sense for Bill Z Bubba to be inferior by being a scrapper so he got moved to another server and fully replaced by BZB Brute. It wasn't until the introduction of the scrapper +crit chance AT IOs that he was able to go back to being a scrapper. And now, with the tank AT IO granting 20.1 damres to all when triple stacked, BZB Brute has become completely superfluous. And then the SuperSecretPrivateServer or Homecoming introduced changes making everything run in terror all the fucking time so even BZB Brute with his inferior mitigation and inferior damage becomes more appealing than the scrapper just to avoid the nuisance created by the devs. I've no fucking clue WHY they changed mob fleeing mechanics but it sucks. It's NOT fun, it's NOT rational and it quite frankly drives me up the fucking wall with their silence on the issue, ESPECIALLY when coupled with the "let's rehash and propagate stone armor but we'll make sure it doesn't have a taunt aura for scrappers" mindset. Yea, I'm pissed about it. Just as I'm annoyed at the origin pools and their BS powers like Rune of Protection. But why NOT use the hell out of the Sorcery pool? It's freaking incredible for a controller with a single pet. Slap the revamped Enflame on Poopy the Animated Stone, keep him buffed Spirit Ward and let him go to town. Power Creep For The Win, Baby! 1 1
Naraka Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 On 6/3/2022 at 5:29 PM, Bill Z Bubba said: ALL scrappers should get the same taunt aura as brutes. Full stop. The dev decision otherwise is based on a crap decision. Edit: I didn't used to care. But since the changes THEY made, runners are now a ridiculous and aggravating issue. Now you're just making an argument for the guy who wants to replace Confront with a teleport to target attack. You can use movement, ranged and pools like everyone else. Jealous of Tankers and Brutes? Good, go play one.
Bill Z Bubba Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 Just now, Naraka said: Now you're just making an argument for the guy who wants to replace Confront with a teleport to target attack. You can use movement, ranged and pools like everyone else. Jealous of Tankers and Brutes? Good, go play one. It's not jealousy, <text removed>. I have a tank and brute and scrapper version of Bill Z Bubba. There's no damn reason for the scrapper to have to deal with the idiotic runners when the brute and tank don't.
Naraka Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said: It's not jealousy, <text removed>. I have a tank and brute and scrapper version of Bill Z Bubba. There's no damn reason for the scrapper to have to deal with the idiotic runners when the brute and tank don't.
Bill Z Bubba Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 Beyond being the stupidest use of that meme.... SR is SR. If Evasion can taunt enemies for 2 archetypes, it can do so for a third.
Rudra Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 Mob flee mechanics: Yes, please fix. It is beyond ridiculous. Confront/AS replaced with combat teleport: No. Maybe give Confront a small AoE effect, but definitely do not replace. SR needing to be fixed: I'm amused by the back and forth. Especially as the author of the thread finds himself backpedaling on his comments. Re-arrange the power order and call it good. 1
Stormwalker Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 I have to admit, I am starting to seriously regret making my Dual Blades/Willpower a Willpower and not an SR. I knew when I made her she should have been SR. But I didn't want to level another SR just yet after finishing Kitten, so I went with WP, and now that I am level 40 and fighting Malta and Knives of Artemis I am regretting that decision. Why, oh, why, does Hover not make us immune to freakin' caltrops (I have to admit, I had forgotten about this fact)? I miss the slow resistance on Quickness so very much. For that matter, I miss the movement speed on Quickness, because Seladri is a hoverscrapper and the extra movement speed really helps. On top of that, I hate the realization that the best attack chain for DB (which requires an absurd amount of recharge) is probably impossible for me because I don't have any recharge boost in my secondary. Even if it is possible, I certainly won't be able to afford a build with that much recharge in it anytime soon. Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be Willpower... (I jest, in part. She's quite strong, as long as I avoid the Sappers. Just not quite as strong or as fun as she would have been if I had made her /SR like I knew I should have).
Blackjoy Posted June 4, 2022 Author Posted June 4, 2022 On 6/3/2022 at 2:03 AM, Bill Z Bubba said: So the set with Quick Recovery is getting more out of Savage's endurance discount than SR with it's complete lack of endurance tools? I'll give you that SR needs no recharge, as Regen does, but of course, SR doesn't need the click heals that Regen so relies upon. Yup. SR gets nothing from the +recharge which is a definite benefit for Regen. Regen also benefits from the endo discount. 1. I have run low on endurance on occasion, especially frighting Freakshow. 2. I don't have to burn early slots on endo reduction or add slots to Stamina and QR. So yeah, I think Regen gets more out of Savage than SR and that is another problem with SR...Hasten does nothing for it as a defense. Quote I am on Excel. Same global name. How about some max diff carnies and arachnos? I'll bring my claws/sr main. Or if it's just the 30s you're worried about, you'll have to give me a day or two to get there on the new savage/sr. Edit: Or if ya like, we can go for broke and duo a max diff, no insps, no temps, no incarnate master run rules ITF. Max diff carnies and arachnos are not an issue for SR. I'm sure Carniers would be deadly for Regen. Arachnos is only an issue for Regen if they start using glue grenades, but Hasten solves that. However, I will absolutely love to see your SR fight 4x8 IDF without any off AT +DEF. No...I'll give you Stealth. And FYI, I'm doing all my Regen testing without using any Inspirations. No purples, no greens, no oranges. Nothing. Wait....wait....I did have to use Insight on an Arachnos boss that kept perma-blinding me with smoke That was just annoying. I do use Hasten on occasion, but nothing else. I took Tough, but don't use it. My Sav/Regen is now 36 and I've done three straight Cimorea missions at +1 (dialed it back from +2 because these guys are nastry). Died three times in two mission getting a feel for how much damage these guys can pump out. The third mission i didn't die at all. Cleared the 1 hour time mission in like 15 minutes. No Inspiration. No resting. To fight +2 r higher, I need FA. Accurac is an issue because I don't have my attacks slotted well and am only running 5 Overwhelming in Shred, no other Set IOs. 1
Blackjoy Posted June 4, 2022 Author Posted June 4, 2022 23 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said: Brewin coffee, about to be online. Let's get this over with. Apologies. Am just seeing this now. I just sent a global chat to bill z bubba, but you don't appear to be on.
Blackjoy Posted June 4, 2022 Author Posted June 4, 2022 On 6/3/2022 at 4:49 AM, Bill Z Bubba said: I dislike the blood frenzy mechanic. Savage's first real AoE is rending flurry. If I use it at 5 stacks of BF, I can't build more BF so seeing the indicator pop up makes me NOT want to click it. Or I can waste brain space on watching the stacks and/or only click it when it's not lit up. It's a distraction. Funny. I went through the exact same through process. Most of that was due to my thinking Exhausted was stopping my endo recovery. Now I am cognizant of the +recharge, but only if I've had to use a clickie. But yeah, I am not a huge fan having to give up the stacks to use Frenzy and Hemorrhage and there was a point when I was using them early to avoid the Exhausted Quote Given that you face so many guns in the lowbie levels, which are ranged with defense debuffs, I can see why the OG devs chose to have agile show up before dodge.... That and you are actively fighting the mobs in melee so your Primary's secondary effects are providing you with some mitigation as well as outright defeating them. My Shield brute friend found out that he was better of capping Ranged than he was capping Melee.
Bill Z Bubba Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Blackjoy said: I will absolutely love to see your SR fight 4x8 IDF without any off AT +DEF. I don't know what the hell this means. I'm not allowed weave or CJ or maneuvers? Why are you allowed pool powers if I'm not? I can be on now. Fire up an IDF mission. Just logged on. Damn typos. Edited June 4, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba
Bill Z Bubba Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, Blackjoy said: That and you are actively fighting the mobs in melee so your Primary's secondary effects are providing you with some mitigation as well as outright defeating them. Just to make sure, you do know that attacks typed range are still typed range even if you're in melee, right?
Stormwalker Posted June 4, 2022 Posted June 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said: I don't know what the hell this means. I'm not allowed weave or CJ or maneuvers? Why are you allowed pool powers if I'm not? I can be on now. Fire up and IDF mission. Just logged on. I still struggle to understand why anyone would build any scrapper (regardless of secondary) with the intent of fighting +4/x8 anything without taking Weave and either Hover or CJ. I've always considered those mandatory.
Luminara Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, Blackjoy said: Regen gets more out of Savage than SR and that is another problem with SR...Hasten does nothing for it as a defense. Most of us have two power sets, a primary and a secondary. Unless you're playing your own private server, I'm confident that you have a second power set, which can benefit from Hasten. Have you considered using that second set, instead of bitching and whining because you can't pwn the game with SR alone? Also, there are a lot of damage mitigation sets which don't get much, or anything, from Hasten. SR isn't special or unique in this regard. There's no argument you can contrive to make SR a poster child for sad-faced players using Hasten. 13 minutes ago, Blackjoy said: No...I'll give you Stealth. Ah, so you're allowed to select the pool powers you want, the pool powers which will benefit your build, but @Bill Z Bubba is restricted in his choices. And you refuse to test unless you can select an enemy group which you have some confidence of surviving against, whereas you insist that @Bill Z Bubba has to fight the enemy group that many players actively avoid because they're such a pain in the ass. Sounds like it's not about real information, it's about "winning", and you're refusing to participate unless you can use loaded dice. 1 Get busy living... or get busy dying. That's goddamn right.
Rudra Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Stormwalker said: I still struggle to understand why anyone would build any scrapper (regardless of secondary) with the intent of fighting +4/x8 anything without taking Weave and either Hover or CJ. I've always considered those mandatory. You are missing the OP's point entirely. SR needs to be able to tank everything in the game at +4/x8 without enhancement set bonuses or using pool powers. It doesn't matter that every other armor set needs those enhancement set bonuses and to use pool powers. It only matters that SR has to. (I am being facetious in my commentary, so please don't think I agree with the OP.) Edit again: If my comment is not what the author actually means, then please clarify. Because your comments read like this to me. Edited June 5, 2022 by Rudra Edited to add "at +4/x8".
Luminara Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 33 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said: Just to make sure, you do know that attacks typed range are still typed range even if you're in melee, right? He "knew" that Exhausted imposed -100% Recovery. And that Staff/Willpower is unplayable without dumping multiple slots in Stamina. So... probably not. 1 Get busy living... or get busy dying. That's goddamn right.
Stormwalker Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Rudra said: You are missing the OP's point entirely. SR needs to be able to tank everything in the game at +4/x8 without enhancement set bonuses or using pool powers. It doesn't matter that every other armor set needs those enhancement set bonuses and to use pool powers. It only matters that SR has to. (I am being facetious in my commentary, so please don't think I agree with the OP.) Oh, I realize that's the OP's point. I'm just mystified by it. To me, an SR scrapper who doesn't take Weave is basically that would-be hero that says, "Eh, my natural talent is enough. I don't need to actually learn to dodge." Who wants to play that hero? Not me! 1
Bill Z Bubba Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 OP and I had a long discussion. He watched me faceplant against +4 IDF a couple times and slaughter a bunch of them as well. I wasn't allowed to use incarnate powers and in my defense, BZB scrap is designed for Barrier usage. We discussed the Rad armor scrapper that managed it. We discussed fair testing. There's, of course, common ground in our views. We both see the leveling process as a bit unfair for SR. Thus the need for the power order change. We both agree that the newer sets are OP AF compared to the older sets. We agreed that even giving SR the Master Brawler treatment from Sentinels would be a good thing. I'm sure he'll add his takes on the events later.
Blackjoy Posted June 5, 2022 Author Posted June 5, 2022 Great teaming up. Looking forward to more Savage duoing.
Naraka Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said: Beyond being the stupidest use of that meme.... SR is SR. If Evasion can taunt enemies for 2 archetypes, it can do so for a third. That's not how proliferation works. You don't port it to the ATs that have the effects you want then import their unique effects that aren't for your AT. If you were against swapping Confront for a teleport attack, now you're in the position asking for unnecessary things. Go get a pool power, use other tactics or play the AT that is made to bunch enemies up.
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