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Posted

Put together a build for a cold/sonic defender and would love some advice! Goals were to just make a stellar debuffer with great survivability (for a defender) and good recharge. I wanted to ensure that most of the great cold debuffs would have a recharge that roughly matched their effect duration to always keep them up on enemies. No intention of solo content, just good support for small to large teams in 50+ content. One thing I'm not too sold on is how I slotted Sleet as I'm not sure if the bonuses are worth the six slots there (as well as the enhancement of the debuff), and if those slots could be put to better use elsewhere.

 

Also please let me know if my incarnate selections look ideal:

-Alpha: Agility for end mod and defense

-Interface: Degen for -max hp (is diamag a contender for -to hit and -regen?)

-Destiny: Barrier for res and def buffs. Hoping between Alpha agility and Conserve Power I won't need ageless for End issues.

-Hybrid: I guess Support since my toon won't be focusing too much on DPS, figured the extra def was a bonus?

 

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Posted (edited)

Some random thoughts

My computer died so using Mids is problematic.  If I can't see it in your post I can't really comment directly.

  • Once you get the recharge down on Heat Loss any endurance issues should be history.  No need for your Incarnate to solve endurance issues.  The +recovery buff portion lasts 90 sec so as long as your endurance doesn’t bottom out before you can recast it you should be good to go.  It is possible to make this perma but requires a relatively high global recharge.
  • Sleet - first and foremost you want to enhance the recharge.  Set bonuses would need to be really useful for me to go beyond 3 slots.
  • Can't tell if you have Screech (dead computer and all) but I wouldn't skip.  Only Dreadful Wail has a longer lasting resistance debuff nevermind the CC mez.  Screech+Dreadful Wail is also mag 6 stun.
  • Glacial and Ice Shield take both Defense and Resistance set IOs.  This means they'll take all those yummy special IOs.  You don't have to try and squeeze them all in Steamy Mist woops, Arctic Fog or other spots they traditionally go into it.
  • Benumb - if you're pushing HL towards perma, you're also pushing Benumb towards perma status.  Make sure it has sufficient accuracy and to hit to push the final hit to 95%+.  This is a place where with enough global accuracy you can 2 slot 50+5 recharge IOs.
  • Infrigidate is often used as a proc attack these days.
Edited by Doomguide2005
Posted

Huh how do you export a build to have all the details in text? Every option just results in the import brick of text. Either way I made some changes so if you do get a chance to open it in Mids let me know! Also could you maybe shed some insight on if the accuracy enhancements on Heat Loss and Benumb aren't really useful given global accuracy? I'm not too sure how that system intricately works.

 

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Posted

     Short answer about accuracy and global accuracy.  Global accuracy, like what you get as set bonuses, acts like accuracy enhancements in every power that accepts accuracy.  Powers typically have a base 1.0 accuracy (some have more, some less).  In the case of Benumb its base accuracy is 1.0.  

 

     The HCwiki article "Attack Mechanics" goes into details how it all works.  In Mids this is all done for you but it defaults to assuming you're attacking an even level foe and therefore your Base To Hit value is 75% (vs 39% vs +4's).  You can change this in Mids to account for fighting higher level foes.  It's been a while so memories of what the tab in Mids is called is getting a bit foggy.  Something like Math and Exemplar Effects iirc.  Hopefully someone else pops in with current information about both how to post and where you can change your base hit chance.  In general it'll take a lot of global accuracy if you're base hit is set for vs +4's and have no to hit powers active (Tactics, Amplify, Kismet IO, etc.) when you use Benumb.  Defense debuffs like Infrigidate and Sleet also help but the Purple Patch roughly halves their effectiveness vs +4's.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Short answer about accuracy and global accuracy.  Global accuracy, like what you get as set bonuses, acts like accuracy enhancements in every power that accepts accuracy.  Powers typically have a base 1.0 accuracy (some have more, some less).  In the case of Benumb its base accuracy is 1.0.  

 

     The HCwiki article "Attack Mechanics" goes into details how it all works.  In Mids this is all done for you but it defaults to assuming you're attacking an even level foe and therefore your Base To Hit value is 75% (vs 39% vs +4's).  You can change this in Mids to account for fighting higher level foes.  It's been a while so memories of what the tab in Mids is called is getting a bit foggy.  Something like Math and Exemplar Effects iirc.  Hopefully someone else pops in with current information about both how to post and where you can change your base hit chance.  In general it'll take a lot of global accuracy if you're base hit is set for vs +4's and have no to hit powers active (Tactics, Amplify, Kismet IO, etc.) when you use Benumb.  Defense debuffs like Infrigidate and Sleet also help but the Purple Patch roughly halves their effectiveness vs +4's.

 

Ah thank you, it's this side of mechanics I am not too familiar with. What is the max Tohit value where any excess no longer provides a better chance to hit? I would probably aim higher than the cap to account for some Tohit debuffs from enemies, but it would be nice to know if my accuracy enhancements on Benumb and Heat Loss are effectively providing no extra value (and could be moved to another power).

 

But your memory serves you well! In 'Options>Configuration' there is an "Exemping & Base Values" tab where you can change the base ToHit. Good to know for future reference thanks!

Edited by foosbabaganoosh
Posted

Well your attack is broken into 2 overall steps.  First you figure out the net value of all your defense/defense debuffs and to hit/to hit debuffs involved.  These values are all additions and subtractions.  That's applied to your base hit and the resulting value is "clamped" between 5% and 95%.  Next big step is where accuracy is dealt with.  All the accuracy mods are multiplied by the net result of that first big step.  Again this value is clamped between 5% and 95% and that gives you your final hit chance

 

HitChance=Clamp(Accuracy mods×Clamp(BaseHitChance+ToHitMods-DefenseMods)  where the defense and to hit mods are the net of the buff and debuff values.

 

So the answer to how much is needed is complicated but Tactics is a good place to start on a Defender.  It offers around +18% To Hit on a Defender when enhanced.   The Kismet special IO offers +6% To Hit (it calls it accuracy, it is in fact a to hit buff).  Those are the readily available full time To Hit buffs.  At 63% hit chance you need about 150% accuracy.  Then there are a few other powers offering To Hit buffs --> Amplify, Soul Drain, Combat Teleport, Power Build Up, etc..  Global accuracy on the other hand is almost always a product of set bonuses rather than powers.   Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control set has a proc which when triggered offers a large boost to To Hit and Damage.  Often the proc goes into the Aim or Build Up type power (Amplify in Sonic) allowing the user a degree of control when it triggers (as it checks when the power is clicked) as compared to a toggle which checks every 10 secs and may fire while you're moving between mobs or after you've nuked essentially wasting the trigger.

 

 

 

Posted
18 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Well your attack is broken into 2 overall steps.  First you figure out the net value of all your defense/defense debuffs and to hit/to hit debuffs involved.  These values are all additions and subtractions.  That's applied to your base hit and the resulting value is "clamped" between 5% and 95%.  Next big step is where accuracy is dealt with.  All the accuracy mods are multiplied by the net result of that first big step.  Again this value is clamped between 5% and 95% and that gives you your final hit chance

 

HitChance=Clamp(Accuracy mods×Clamp(BaseHitChance+ToHitMods-DefenseMods)  where the defense and to hit mods are the net of the buff and debuff values.

 

So the answer to how much is needed is complicated but Tactics is a good place to start on a Defender.  It offers around +18% To Hit on a Defender when enhanced.   The Kismet special IO offers +6% To Hit (it calls it accuracy, it is in fact a to hit buff).  Those are the readily available full time To Hit buffs.  At 63% hit chance you need about 150% accuracy.  Then there are a few other powers offering To Hit buffs --> Amplify, Soul Drain, Combat Teleport, Power Build Up, etc..  Global accuracy on the other hand is almost always a product of set bonuses rather than powers.   Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control set has a proc which when triggered offers a large boost to To Hit and Damage.  Often the proc goes into the Aim or Build Up type power (Amplify in Sonic) allowing the user a degree of control when it triggers (as it checks when the power is clicked) as compared to a toggle which checks every 10 secs and may fire while you're moving between mobs or after you've nuked essentially wasting the trigger.

 

 

 

 

This knowledge you're dropping is AWESOME. Also diving into the wiki on the mechanics is one hell of a rabbit hole, thank you for cluing me into it!

Posted

When i  export mids i have to use the Import/Export-short forum export-click on no codes-tick the box export data chunk as well as a data link. I'm not in the US and when i try to change those setting i just get a garbled code exported instead. I used to main a cold/sonic and i ended up with 3 builds. Started with elec mastery for the single target immob when av's were constantly running away. Tried psy for the hold Dominate. Ended up running soul pretty much constantly when teaming. Too many times aggro gets out of team control or you find yourself alone (or lost 😛 ) on an itrial and your defence is insufficient once aggro targets you, although with ss+arctic your invis most of the time its not enough for those times when enemies see through stealth. So....power boost. Big bump when needed to your defence along with all the other benefits it brings when you start to debuff. I'm a big fan of shockwave for the kd control so i try to squeeze it in. And i'm very lazy when it comes to buffing, after playing a bots/cold for a while applying frostwork gets annoying so i often drop that. Lost my old builds, chucked this in mids, frostwork is there instead of amplify. The defence numbers make play so much easier on teams and the odd occasion when you find yourself solo:

 

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

COLD SONIC SOUL: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Cold Domination
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Ice Shield            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(3)
Level 1:    Shriek                HO:Nucle(A)
Level 2:    Scream                SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(11), GldJvl-Dam%(13)
Level 4:    Howl                SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(A), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(15), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(15), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 6:    Glacial Shield            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(19)
Level 8:    Boxing                Empty(A)
Level 10:    Shockwave            SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(21), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(23), Ann-ResDeb%(23)
Level 12:    Arctic Fog            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam(29)
Level 14:    Tough                UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%(29), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), GldArm-3defTpProc(31)
Level 16:    Shout                Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Apc-Acc/Rchg(33), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Apc-Dmg(34)
Level 18:    Benumb                Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 20:    Frostwork            Heal-I(A)
Level 22:    Weave                LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(36), ShlWal-Def(36), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 24:    Hasten                RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 26:    Sleet                SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(37), AchHee-ResDeb%(39)
Level 28:    Super Speed            BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(39)
Level 30:    Combat Jumping            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32:    Heat Loss            PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(A), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/Rech(39), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/End(40), PreOptmz-EndMod/Rech(40), PreOptmz-EndMod/End(40), PreOptmz-Acc/Rech(42)
Level 35:    Screech                Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), RzzDzz-Immob%(43), GldJvl-Dam%(43)
Level 38:    Dreadful Wail            Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Obl-Dmg(45), Obl-Acc/Rchg(45), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(45), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 41:    Dark Embrace            UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(46), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(46), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(47), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(48)
Level 44:    Power Boost            RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(47)
Level 47:    Maneuvers            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(47), Rct-Def(48), Rct-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49:    Tactics                HO:Cyto(A)
Level 1:    Brawl                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Sprint                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Vigilance    
Level 2:    Rest                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Swift                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Health                Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(3), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(5), Prv-Absorb%(5)
Level 1:    Hurdle                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Stamina                PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(7), PwrTrns-+Heal(7)
Level 28:    Speed Phase    
Level 50:    Agility Core Paragon    
------------

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Posted
On 6/25/2022 at 5:39 AM, Meknomancer said:

When i  export mids i have to use the Import/Export-short forum export-click on no codes-tick the box export data chunk as well as a data link. I'm not in the US and when i try to change those setting i just get a garbled code exported instead. I used to main a cold/sonic and i ended up with 3 builds. Started with elec mastery for the single target immob when av's were constantly running away. Tried psy for the hold Dominate. Ended up running soul pretty much constantly when teaming. Too many times aggro gets out of team control or you find yourself alone (or lost 😛 ) on an itrial and your defence is insufficient once aggro targets you, although with ss+arctic your invis most of the time its not enough for those times when enemies see through stealth. So....power boost. Big bump when needed to your defence along with all the other benefits it brings when you start to debuff. I'm a big fan of shockwave for the kd control so i try to squeeze it in. And i'm very lazy when it comes to buffing, after playing a bots/cold for a while applying frostwork gets annoying so i often drop that. Lost my old builds, chucked this in mids, frostwork is there instead of amplify. The defence numbers make play so much easier on teams and the odd occasion when you find yourself solo:

 

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

COLD SONIC SOUL: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Cold Domination
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Ice Shield            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(3)
Level 1:    Shriek                HO:Nucle(A)
Level 2:    Scream                SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(11), GldJvl-Dam%(13)
Level 4:    Howl                SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(A), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(15), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(15), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 6:    Glacial Shield            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(19)
Level 8:    Boxing                Empty(A)
Level 10:    Shockwave            SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(21), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(23), Ann-ResDeb%(23)
Level 12:    Arctic Fog            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam(29)
Level 14:    Tough                UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%(29), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), GldArm-3defTpProc(31)
Level 16:    Shout                Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Apc-Acc/Rchg(33), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Apc-Dmg(34)
Level 18:    Benumb                Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 20:    Frostwork            Heal-I(A)
Level 22:    Weave                LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(36), ShlWal-Def(36), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 24:    Hasten                RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 26:    Sleet                SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(37), AchHee-ResDeb%(39)
Level 28:    Super Speed            BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(39)
Level 30:    Combat Jumping            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32:    Heat Loss            PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(A), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/Rech(39), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/End(40), PreOptmz-EndMod/Rech(40), PreOptmz-EndMod/End(40), PreOptmz-Acc/Rech(42)
Level 35:    Screech                Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), RzzDzz-Immob%(43), GldJvl-Dam%(43)
Level 38:    Dreadful Wail            Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Obl-Dmg(45), Obl-Acc/Rchg(45), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(45), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 41:    Dark Embrace            UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(46), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(46), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(47), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(48)
Level 44:    Power Boost            RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(47)
Level 47:    Maneuvers            LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(47), Rct-Def(48), Rct-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49:    Tactics                HO:Cyto(A)
Level 1:    Brawl                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Sprint                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Vigilance    
Level 2:    Rest                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Swift                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Health                Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(3), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(5), Prv-Absorb%(5)
Level 1:    Hurdle                Empty(A)
Level 1:    Stamina                PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(7), PwrTrns-+Heal(7)
Level 28:    Speed Phase    
Level 50:    Agility Core Paragon    
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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Man this is infuriating. Here I am spending time trying to tailor a build and you come in with one that crushes mine on all fronts. I'm always amazed at the ability of members of this community to make impeccably crafted builds! Absolutely stellar thank you for sharing!

 

Although one thing to point out, you have 6 of the 7.5% LotGs, meaning one of those is wasted right?

Posted

Well spotted i did throw in 6 by mistake. Just swap out the one in Arctic Fog for a def/end piece and you'll have the same def numbers, or the one in weave for a shield wall piece for a little more res, this drops you down below 45% a tiny amount but once you boost them you'll be back.

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