Help on tanker

[Blackwood]

I'm looking to level a Tanker, but have a few to consider, and am looking for assistance.

 

I'm torn between Willpower, shield, Ice, and Invul.  Each of the four have their proc and cons, but what I was seeking was actual numbers for defenses/resistances to each.

 

I was linked a decently geared Io Shield Tanker (Pretty tough looking: 15% defenses to everything on top of 44% positional defenses, along with 90% Lethal/Smashing - 55% the rest)

 

https://gyazo.com/20b552d35c5c02461dadfddc12b9f958 - Link

 

The others I do not have the numbers for (With IOs of course), and if anyone can help me there, I would be grateful. 

[Call Me Awesome]

I'm looking to level a Tanker, but have a few to consider, and am looking for assistance.

 

I'm torn between Willpower, shield, Ice, and Invul.  Each of the four have their proc and cons, but what I was seeking was actual numbers for defenses/resistances to each.

 

I was linked a decently geared Io Shield Tanker (Pretty tough looking: 15% defenses to everything on top of 44% positional defenses, along with 90% Lethal/Smashing - 55% the rest)

 

https://gyazo.com/20b552d35c5c02461dadfddc12b9f958 - Link

 

The others I do not have the numbers for (With IOs of course), and if anyone can help me there, I would be grateful.

 

Well, what do you want to do with your tanker?  If you want to tank for a team then I suggest skipping Willpower, it has by far the worst aggro aura of any tanker set.  Shield, Ice and Invuln are all very capable in aggro with Ice being the best by a fair margin although you won't have issues with Shield or Invuln.  In terms of late game IO survivability a well built Invuln is going to be tougher than Shield or Ice but any of them can handle anything the game throws at them if you play it right.  I've played Shield, Invuln, Ice, Fire and Stone to 50 and all have their pluses and minuses.

 

In raw durability terms they'd rank Stone (after level 32)......... Invuln.... Ice/Shield.. Fire on SO enhancements.  With IO's the gaps close up a bit and you can argue the placings a bit but you'll still have Stone way in front with Invuln second.  Of course Stone pays for that durability with poor mobility and recharge.  Pick which set looks interesting to you.  Shield and Fire are more damage oriented with Shield being a bit more durable (arguably, with enough investment a blaster can tank... I've proven it before).  Ice with it's two aggro auras always has an unbreakable grip on aggro while Invuln is a more generic tough build without a lot of tricks.  Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with the other tanker primaries to offer an informed opinion since most are new since shutdown.

 

Willpower does have it's place; with a good build it will be highly durable, it just has problems with aggro.  Since when I'm playing a tanker my primary focus is on aggro management Willpower isn't a set that I would play... and when I'm playing a squishy character I never trust a Willpower tank to hold aggro.

[jack_nomind]

I'm torn between Willpower, shield, Ice, and Invul.  Each of the four have their proc and cons, but what I was seeking was actual numbers for defenses/resistances to each.

 

These can be found in-game, or in Pines Hero Builder.  If you're asking what the "maximum" is for each, it's dependent on IO sets; I don't think anyone has taken on the task of mathematically proving the highest total value.

 

The image you linked to does not look particularly well-built as a Shield Tanker.  Of the four primaries you listed, I would say (at the high end) WP and Invuln are very close in survivability, with Shield only a little behind.  Ice is the weakest and would be the most expensive to build, but it does offer continuous damage output and some other useful tools.  The taunt aura is weaker on WP, but that can be easily overcome by some light slotting in your Taunt secondary power, or taking a secondary with good AoEs.

[marcussmythe]

Ice will have the best aggro management, Willpower the worst.

 

Invuln will be toughest overall, with some holes.

 

Shield and Willpower will be close enough to Invuln in survival that you probably wont notice much difference, and lack the holes.

 

Shield has a huge damage buff and a built in AOE.

 

All are solid sets, it just depends on your priorities.

[Blackwood]

Appreciate the input.  I do like the idea of tanking where the mobs are on me, leaving my team to not have to worry as much about their own safety.

 

Ice seems like a good choice to never worry much about aggro, but how does it defenses/resistances stack up to the others?  It sounds like with enough IO's, and tanker can tank, but Ice isn't too far behind lets say stone/invul's tankiness, is it?

[marcussmythe]

I wouldnt say too far behind Invuln.  Certainly close enough that on a team, the buffs that you should be getting will still render you more than sufficient to handle any anticipated incoming damage.

 

Youll be pretty far behind Granite.  Everything and everyone takes a bow to Granite.  Granite can only be defeated by bumps in the terrain, curbs, and stairs.

 

My honest advice is (if your concept allows for it), Shield.  Shield gives positional rather than typed defense, easier to raise and lacking vulnerable spots.  Shield provides additional defense to, and derives additional defense from, nearby friendlies - which can be handy, or give you powers you can just totally skip or use for IO mules.  Shield provides the single best self-damage-buff in the game in the form of Against All Odds - it gives you more damage when your fighting a lot of bad guys.  A very very large buff if its a lot of bad guys.  Guess what you do, Mr. Tank?

 

It also has a nice teleport AOE.  See above.

 

The classic pairing for Shield is Dark Melee - Dark Melee covers the main hole in Shield, the lack of a self-heal.  Dark Melee provides the OTHER best damage bonus in the game - so long as you have a crowd to draw on.  (See above).  Damage helps you hold aggro, and you wont always be with a team, and if your solo, you might want to complete the mission this week rather than next.

 

The only downside is other than shield charge, your only in-set AOE is the rather non-AOE Shadow Maul.  You may have to switch between targets to spread around the punchvokeing.

 

 

[jack_nomind]

Ice seems like a good choice to never worry much about aggro, but how does it defenses/resistances stack up to the others?  It sounds like with enough IO's, and tanker can tank, but Ice isn't too far behind lets say stone/invul's tankiness, is it?

 

Yes, Ice is significantly far behind Invuln's tankiness.  Both sets have no mitigation against Psionic.  Ice also has no built-in S/L resistance, only about 19% unenhanced Defense to S/L/E/N and much less to F/C.  Invuln, in contrast, has between 11-20% Defense to those six types (so when surrounded by enemies, Invuln actually has more Defense than Ice does), and a significant amount of resistance on top of that.  You usually pay quite a lot for damage auras in Tanker sets.

 

Without Granite or IOs, Ice and Stone are about equal.  Stone pulls far ahead with those things, though.

[Sura]

Appreciate the input.  I do like the idea of tanking where the mobs are on me, leaving my team to not have to worry as much about their own safety.

 

Ice seems like a good choice to never worry much about aggro, but how does it defenses/resistances stack up to the others?  It sounds like with enough IO's, and tanker can tank, but Ice isn't too far behind lets say stone/invul's tankiness, is it?

 

I think Ice does things in a weird and more difficult to quantify way than almost all the other sets.  It has DEF for sure, and crazy cold resist, but Chilling Embrace (in addition to being a taunt aura and a movement slow) also slaps a 30+% recharge penalty on nearby foes, and that translates into fewer attacks levied, and less damage taken by the Icer.  I'm sure there's a way to mathematically quantify that, but I have no idea how.  Energy Absorption not only fills up your stamina, it drains the foes, and gives you Defense for every foe hit.  Again, that's not something that's going to show up well in a hero planner, but considering how you're right in the middle of everything as a Tank, there's every possibility you're going to be pulling 10 or more % DEF when you fire off EA.  If you fire off EA twice in a battle you've AoE drained all the end out of almost everything below an Elite Boss, another difficult thing to figure into a measure of effectiveness. 

 

I've pretty much only played Ice, so I'm not in a good place to compare with other sets.  I think of Ice as being kind of non-traditional in how it approaches tanking, and wanted to express that.

[Blackwood]

Is there a cap to Defense.  Looking up Shield/Broad Sword, and Parry gives 15% defense, but if there is a cap that might be useless.

[jack_nomind]

Is there a cap to Defense.  Looking up Shield/Broad Sword, and Parry gives 15% defense, but if there is a cap that might be useless.

 

Yes, but it's irrelevant.  What's more important is Defense is subtracted from enemy To Hit, and there's a minimum value for To Hit of 5%.  The base To Hit for enemies is 50%.  That means that (against that base value) you won't get any benefit from more than 45 Defense.  There are plenty of enemies that have a higher To Hit, or who are part of groups that buff To Hit, but 45 is referred to as the "softcap" because it's the default most useful value.

 

Hit chances are rolled out of 100, with lower rolls better (e.g., a roll of 5 or less will always hit, while a roll of 96 or more will always miss).  There's another stat, Accuracy, that then multiplies this base 5% tohit.  Defense doesn't reduce Accuracy.  For +4 AVs their accuracy modifier is 2.25, so the minimum final roll a +4 AV needs to hit you is 11 or less.  This might not sound like a big difference from 5, but it means you're getting hit more than twice as often as you would against a minion -- and therefore dying twice as fast.  Since there's no comparable reduction in Resistance, a pure Resistance tanker at the appropriate Res cap (all other things being equal) will live twice as long as a pure Defense one.

[Camoron]

I had a bunch of level 50 Tankers (and a few Brutes too). My old main was a Shield/SS Tanker that could tank anything, farm decently well, -and- solo AVs. I once tried to solo the ITF with him but got kicked on mission 5 or 6 because my fillers dropped-- otherwise I think my chances would have been pretty good. It was a ton of fun and I highly recommend Shield. I had an Inv/SS Tank at 50 as well, but it wasn't nearly as fun. Shield is my favorite defensive powerset.

[Erratic1]

Appreciate the input.  I do like the idea of tanking where the mobs are on me, leaving my team to not have to worry as much about their own safety.

 

Ice seems like a good choice to never worry much about aggro, but how does it defenses/resistances stack up to the others?  It sounds like with enough IO's, and tanker can tank, but Ice isn't too far behind lets say stone/invul's tankiness, is it?

 

I think Ice does things in a weird and more difficult to quantify way than almost all the other sets.  It has DEF for sure, and crazy cold resist, but Chilling Embrace (in addition to being a taunt aura and a movement slow) also slaps a 30+% recharge penalty on nearby foes, and that translates into fewer attacks levied, and less damage taken by the Icer.  I'm sure there's a way to mathematically quantify that, but I have no idea how.  Energy Absorption not only fills up your stamina, it drains the foes, and gives you Defense for every foe hit.  Again, that's not something that's going to show up well in a hero planner, but considering how you're right in the middle of everything as a Tank, there's every possibility you're going to be pulling 10 or more % DEF when you fire off EA.  If you fire off EA twice in a battle you've AoE drained all the end out of almost everything below an Elite Boss, another difficult thing to figure into a measure of effectiveness. 

 

I've pretty much only played Ice, so I'm not in a good place to compare with other sets.  I think of Ice as being kind of non-traditional in how it approaches tanking, and wanted to express that.

 

Attacks taking 30% longer to recharge should translate into a  1/1.3=77% rate of damage, or effectively reducing incoming damage by 23.

[Sura]

Appreciate the input.  I do like the idea of tanking where the mobs are on me, leaving my team to not have to worry as much about their own safety.

 

Ice seems like a good choice to never worry much about aggro, but how does it defenses/resistances stack up to the others?  It sounds like with enough IO's, and tanker can tank, but Ice isn't too far behind lets say stone/invul's tankiness, is it?

 

I think Ice does things in a weird and more difficult to quantify way than almost all the other sets.  It has DEF for sure, and crazy cold resist, but Chilling Embrace (in addition to being a taunt aura and a movement slow) also slaps a 30+% recharge penalty on nearby foes, and that translates into fewer attacks levied, and less damage taken by the Icer.  I'm sure there's a way to mathematically quantify that, but I have no idea how.  Energy Absorption not only fills up your stamina, it drains the foes, and gives you Defense for every foe hit.  Again, that's not something that's going to show up well in a hero planner, but considering how you're right in the middle of everything as a Tank, there's every possibility you're going to be pulling 10 or more % DEF when you fire off EA.  If you fire off EA twice in a battle you've AoE drained all the end out of almost everything below an Elite Boss, another difficult thing to figure into a measure of effectiveness. 

 

I've pretty much only played Ice, so I'm not in a good place to compare with other sets.  I think of Ice as being kind of non-traditional in how it approaches tanking, and wanted to express that.

 

Attacks taking 30% longer to recharge should translate into a  1/1.3=77% rate of damage, or effectively reducing incoming damage by 23.

 

Neat!  Thanks!  So that would be kind of like having 23% resist to all incoming damage from sources affected by the slow?

 

[Erratic1]

 

Neat!  Thanks!  So that would be kind of like having 23% resist to all incoming damage from sources affected by the slow?

 

More or less. Some opponents no doubt will resist a portion of the effect and like players being subject to recharge penalties, fresh powers can be chained initially one after another. But they will thereafter be waiting to reuse them.