Pendulum Damage after change, other stats not compensated

[WindDemon21]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I'm telling you what CoD says. And I place more stock in that than your claim. All I'm saying is call it what it currently is classified as and make your pitch from there.

I understand what it says, again, you're arguing semantics. I get what it's "classified" there, but you're looking at the wrong argument based on a word that in this case had two meanings because I'm unaware of another term for it. You're not WRONG, you're just arguing the wrong thing.

 

To sum up, we'd have to clarify the types of aoe, easiest way is "full" aoe, which means and aoe with the maximum targets for that type, ie in this case, 10 targets for those aoes in the 11-20ish second recharges, like cyclone, whirling sword, whirling hands etc. Another example, while technically frost is a cone, it's area size and 10 target cap, basically puts it in the "full aoe" column.

 

Then two more "melee nukes" or "nuke aoe" which isn't part of this but just for reference, like lightning rod, shield charge, savage leap, and ground zero.

 

And then the main one in this discussion, which is "partial aoe" which can be usually cones, or in this case pendulum, since it only has a 5 target cap. So from here on i'll reference them as such as to avoid this confusion for you.

 

As Pendulum is a "partial" aoe, it's end/rech for it's damage as such then should be 8.5, adjusted for set synergy, 10.5 would be agreeable, 15, is FAR too much.

 

Edit: "Edit: So insisting on calling it something other than what it is classified as detracts from your argument." It doesn't detract from the argument, it's just a semnatic you're bringing up which isn't actually part of the argument, and is just a terminology miscommunication, and again, I didn't CALL it a cone, I sait it should be TREATED like a cone.

Edited January 12, 2023 by WindDemon21

[Rudra]

You are missing my point. I'm tired of beating my head against this wall. I'll see how the thread develops later before posting further responses.

[WindDemon21]

Just now, Rudra said:

You are missing my point. I'm tired of beating my head against this wall. I'll see how the thread develops later before posting further responses.

I'm not missing your point, I'm explaining that you're bringing up a point, that is just semantics, and didn't need brought up at all because you don't understand what I was saying.

 

You: "this word means this, it can't mean something else"

 

Me: It CAN mean something else, there just wasn't another word I was aware of. Lots of words have different meanings based on context. In this case, from here on out as mentioned, I will refer to the aoe types as full aoe, partial aoe, and nuke aoe.

[lemming]

So, wound up rolling up a scrapper with battle axe to see how it compared to my recent tanks journey.  Super Reflexes fit the concept better.

 

I'll have to say, without making a careful build, they run out of endurance easily.  Even with mitigation via sets and slotting.  I do remember endurance being a bit of an issue with the tanker as well.  Overall, Ax is a fairly thirsty set, so I can see some call to reduce end use there.

 

On Pendulum itself: Damage isn't too bad, could be a little better.  End use, probably drop to 12 and maybe drop the recharge to 12.   I'm OK with leaving the knock chance at 50%.  Targets at five is fine.

 

Axe Cyclone:  I'd raise it's knock chance up and bump the damage up a little, recharge down a little.

 

Still having a lot of fun with the character

Edited January 12, 2023 by lemming

[WindDemon21]

3 minutes ago, lemming said:

So, wound up rolling up a scrapper with battle axe to see how it compared to my recent tanks journey.  Super Reflexes fit the concept better.

 

I'll have to say, without making a careful build, they run out of endurance easily.  Even with mitigation via sets and slotting.  I do remember endurance being a bit of an issue with the tanker as well.  Overall, Ax is a fairly thirsty set, so I can see some call to reduce end use there.

 

On Pendulum itself: Damage isn't too bad, could be a little better.  End use, probably drop to 12 and maybe drop the recharge to 12.   I'm OK with leaving the knock chance at 50%.  Targets at five is fine.

 

Axe Cyclone:  I'd raise it's knock chance up and bump the damage up a little, recharge down a little.

 

Still having a lot of fun with the character

Right, I have thought several times if 12end/rech would work, but even then that would be the absolute MAX for those for the powers current damage. Even then it's still high though. That would make it a 50% tax for the set synergy/taoe nature which is still a bit much, I can't think of another partial or full aoe that has that much of a tax on it just for knockdown, and even then it would be debatable if that 50% knockdown is better than guaranteed -defense, -resist, slow, stun etc, at which point I wouldn't even say its better, just different, even if it was guaranteed KD.

 

I certainly wouldn't complain if cyclone was 100% kd chance, but given the shorted cast time I think the power itself was balanced as is with the longer recharge time and pull-in addition. I think pendulum at the 5 target cap though, only a 50% chance to KD seems pretty weak even with corrected end/rech values meaning only 2-3 enemies KD'ing at a time. (especially given its current rech/end costs, but lets assume that would get fixed properly given this thread I'd hope)

[WindDemon21]

Would definitely be nice to get this fixed asap so i could play my toon 😕

[WindDemon21]

This would be nice to have fixed with the next patch as well

[WindDemon21]

@Booperany update on this as well? Assuming the current stats are "intended" like the energy absorption issue as clearly layed out here the stats are way off on this power since the damage nerf to it, was moved earlier, but it doesnt follow the end/rech rules of the lower tier powers either, just had a straight damage nerf without those being adjusted as well. Even with the other changes to the set this REALLY hurts the set/power with its end/rech values almost double what they should be per its new damage and 5 target limit. (especially that end cost oof)

[StoneKarma]

Made a Axe/Bio Scrapper. I came to the forums looking for a way to fix my endurance challenges. I'm level 50, fully IO'd, Purples, ATO etc., And I have to rest after or during every fight. It's a slow set, I couldn't even dent a pylon, after 5 minutes, I gave up and wandered off. 

 

I'm ok with the way Pendulum plays, but the endurance is bad and the recharge is kind of "meh". Animations and the way the powers act and fit together are very good. But, I only took 6 powers from Battle Axe and one of those is Build Up, so just 5 attack powers. The animations and recharge are so slow that you really only need 3 powers in your attack chain, whether ST or AoE.

 

For me, the animations and KB/Knock Up make the set enjoyable, the recharge makes it ok, and the Endurance makes it where I don't enjoy it at all. 

 

As I get my Incarnates, I will probably be taking Destiny: Ageless Core Epiphany (+End, +Rech, +Recovery).

 

I think Damage and AoE are ok, but Endurance is just tough. 

 

Here is the thread where the build was developed with input from a couple of the forum's GOATs. Or, did I just choose my sets poorly? 

 

 

[WindDemon21]

5 hours ago, StoneKarma said:

Made a Axe/Bio Scrapper. I came to the forums looking for a way to fix my endurance challenges. I'm level 50, fully IO'd, Purples, ATO etc., And I have to rest after or during every fight. It's a slow set, I couldn't even dent a pylon, after 5 minutes, I gave up and wandered off. 

 

I'm ok with the way Pendulum plays, but the endurance is bad and the recharge is kind of "meh". Animations and the way the powers act and fit together are very good. But, I only took 6 powers from Battle Axe and one of those is Build Up, so just 5 attack powers. The animations and recharge are so slow that you really only need 3 powers in your attack chain, whether ST or AoE.

 

For me, the animations and KB/Knock Up make the set enjoyable, the recharge makes it ok, and the Endurance makes it where I don't enjoy it at all. 

 

As I get my Incarnates, I will probably be taking Destiny: Ageless Core Epiphany (+End, +Rech, +Recovery).

 

I think Damage and AoE are ok, but Endurance is just tough. 

 

Here is the thread where the build was developed with input from a couple of the forum's GOATs. Or, did I just choose my sets poorly? 

 

 

Well the others are pretty much where they were before, axe cyclone had its recharge increased a few seconds to make up for the shorter cast time and pull-in, but as I mentioned above the biggest issue is Pendulum.

 

What you're noticing is that it's still at a 15s recharge and 14.35 end cost which is WAYYY too much on both for its new nerfed damage.

 

As I stated, in relation to other like-attacks like those or bs and katana, it's recharge and end costs both should be about 8.5 seconds and end for its new damage and still 2 second cast time.

 

Granting that it may be just a little easier to hit targets and works with the pull in (which they had to so it didn't work counterintuitively to the cyclone pull-in) and that it has some mitigation(which one could argue versus having -defense), this is where we could maybe see having a little more rech/end in compensation to that of 10ish end/rech, but DEFINITELY not 15 for those, it's quite absurd.

[WindDemon21]

Can we please for the love of god get this fixed for next patch...

[WindDemon21]

On 10/8/2022 at 1:36 PM, Troo said:

It just feels more end hungry

"This is a common experience whenever a set goes through a DPA increase. The design formula directly adjusts damage and endurance based on recharge, so you will find all attacks that follow the formula to have a similar Damage per Endurance ratio. So when a power gets a DPA increase, it will also be accompanied with an EPA increase."

 

Just pointing out @Booper This was your response way back but the power still isn't fixed. Normally yes, but this power was never adjusted properly. It simply had it's damage reduced, but did not have the end/rech values fixed to compensate. So now it does much less damage, but still has an abhorrid 15s recharge and 14.35 end cost. Given that it's damage still only hits 5 targets, like it did before, like slice, and flashing steel do, for it's 2s cast time like slice it only does 9.45% more damage than slice, which is available at tier 3 no less. Flashing steel does less, but its also much faster and has a noticeably higher DPA too, and even recharges shorter in 6 seconds too.

 

Given the closest, slice, which also has the 2s cast time, it's rech/end cost should be then 8.75s rech/8.5end per the damage formula. NOT 15s and 14.35end!

 

Given how it works with axe cyclone, the synergy can factor a bit, putting the recharge/end to around 10 for each, but 15 is horridly terrible and needs fixed asap! But per the damage formula, it really should be about 8.75 and needs fixed!

[WindDemon21]

Would REALLY wish this to be fixed by next patch. Have a few axes I really want to do but i've already stopped one for how horrid the end/rech on pendulum is at only 5 targets..

[arcane]

On 1/6/2023 at 7:52 PM, Psyonico said:

You need to look at the set as a whole and not just compare individual powers.

This OP has demonstrated over and over and over that they don’t understand how to do this.

 

And no, the damage was not simply decreased without compensating adjustments. That’s not truthful at all. The power received TAoE status as compensation.

Edited November 16, 2023 by arcane

[Bionic_Flea]

6 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Would REALLY wish this to be fixed by next patch.

 

I don't think that they think it's broken.  Soooo . . .

 

[WindDemon21]

On 11/16/2023 at 2:07 PM, arcane said:

This OP has demonstrated over and over and over that they don’t understand how to do this.

 

And no, the damage was not simply decreased without compensating adjustments. That’s not truthful at all. The power received TAoE status as compensation.

This is incorrect. I have looked at this MANY times, factoring in everything, but the base issue is that per the damage and how many targets it hits, it is still WAY out of line, even including the set as a whole. Remember, that whirling axe took a hit as well on recharge becoming axe cyclone, and the "aoe" means nothing much different when it's still only hitting 5 targets. If it was a TRUE aoe, ie 10 targets, that would be different, but only hitting 5 it's WAY under-statted, yes, even with the rest of the sets changes.

 

The only aoe vs cone debate was to make it not work against itself with the pull in in axe cyclone and maybe a *slight* ease of hitting those 5 targets. Considering that synergy as mentioned, where it's rech/end should be about 8.5 for it's damage, I could see a small hit at about 10 end/rech values, but DEFINITELY not 15 which is almost double where it should be. Its quite atrocious.

 

It is 100% not where it should be at hitting only 5 targets, it's not even a question.

 

Edit: I know how to do "this" just fine. Being annoyed/vexed by such crazy wrong stats and that comes out when talking sure, but i'm not doing it wrong. I state what's wrong, and provide evidence and data as to why it's wrong. This is how it's done. This in particular is extra annoying cause it's about the only thing preventing this from being a perfect set with proper aoe scaling too, but it's a big doozy, especially that end cost oof.

Edited November 17, 2023 by WindDemon21