Bonfire before Blizzard - Ice/Time/Flame

[Ice Ember]

I am wondering if Bonfire with the KB to KD proc would keep the enemy spawn flopping with Blizzard dropped on top.  Thus keeping them in the Blizzard the entire time. 

 

This is my thoughts for the build.

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1701&c=698&a=1396&f=HEX&dc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

[Zect]

14 hours ago, Ice Ember said:

I am wondering if Bonfire with the KB to KD proc would keep the enemy spawn flopping with Blizzard dropped on top.  Thus keeping them in the Blizzard the entire time.

 

It would not. This is because both KB2KD procs in the game reduce their procrate severely when slotted in certain powers, of which bonfire is one.

 

View the list of powers affected in this way here (city of data).

 

Bonfire is also very unresponsive, having a long animation time of 3.3s and a further 2.2s before it takes effect; and while the damage numbers look impressive in mids, note that it is spread out over a very long duration of 45s.

 

* * *

 

As for your build, there are a few issues worth considering:

• Alpha slot - Try to take musculature instead. Or, if you really want to stick with agility, you should try to maximize the slot-efficiency you gain from it by reducing rech bonuses; right now, you can drop about 15% rech and still be permahasten with an agility core paragon.
• Lack of aim and gaussian's - aim is strongly recommended on all blasters that can get it. Aim + chronos + gaussian's proc to drop a damage-capped blizzard on enemies is very powerful.
• Mitigation strategy - I see a lot of typed defense. Have you considered either softcapping S/L/ranged or a rainbow blaster, i.e. softcapped to all damtypes except psi? However, this would require taking either mace or ice epics plus leadership. I include a discussion of how to construct a rainbow blaster below; ignore if you have no interest in changing epics.

Spoiler

Taking hover or CJ, maneuvers, weave, and scorp shield or ice shield will yield about 27.5 SL def and 10.5 ENFC def when slotted fully. For purposes of this discussion I will ignore the energy def from scorp shield, since we want to close the neg hole (nictus, thorns, and BP are major endgame villain groups). Adding 6% from the two +def uniques, we still need 11.5% SL def and 28.5% ENFC def to softcap.

 

Slotting the following...

• 6x Blistering cold
• 6x Winter's bite
• 6x Frozen blast
• 6x entomb
• 6x ATIO - both sets

...brings us to a total of 38.5% SL, 34% EN, and 39% FC def (add about 2.5% SL def and 1% ENFC def to these figures for an agility core paragon build). From there, is it not far to 40% or 45% across the board, which a /time should easily be able to achieve while maintaining permahasten. The most difficult def to get is EN def. 3x artillery, 3x thunderstrikes, 3x eradications are all good options with reasonable DPAS, depending on what attacks you have access to.

 

If you are unable to reach 45% without sacrificing other build goals, an alternative is to build for only 40% instead and rely on either a defense amp or the weakest level of barrier core destiny to cap (both give 5%). On my blasters that build for 40%, I join a TF then wait to see if there are any other leadership toggles or defense auras going. Only if there are none, then only do I slot barrier or pop a defense amp. This allows me to still softcap while saving greatly on slot-efficiency which can be directed towards rech and damage.

 

A different alternative is to focus on capping SLEN and allowing FC to be undercapped.

 

Other slotting issues I spot:

 

Try to put your 5x apoc in freeze ray instead, and scrounge a slot from somewhere to add an unbreakable constraint purple damage proc to it. It is your highest-DPA attack (BIB is a hair higher when unslotted, but cannot fit double purple procs as easily).

 

Coming from someone who is a fan of -res procs and has double -res procs going in sleet etc: from experience, they generally do not have a big effect on clear times. If you are looking for slots, the annihilation -res in ice storm is the first thing I would drop.

 

You should boost all those rech commons you are using to +5.

 

You have no -KB; I presume this is a mistaken omission.

 

Note that the 6% heal set bonus from Numina's does not help your temporal healing toggle, which despite the name, is absorb. While the enhancement value from enhancements usually boosts both healing and absorb (hence why they are specifically named e.g. Numina's Convalescence: Heal/Absorb), set bonuses and buffs may boost only one or the other. Since you seem to have added the 4th slot only for this bonus, this is an opportunity to save a slot as well.

 

Overall, however, this is a build that successfully avoids most major errors in build design; well done.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Zect

[Ice Ember]

Bonfire was the reason for the Epic and no other reason.  I have never taken it on live or HC.  Now I remember why.

 

Thanks for the slotting info for Freezing Blast.  I had that as an alternate if I decided to take BFR, which I did once and dropped.  I didnt want a super expensive build on yet another alt, but I think it has morphed into it.

 

I think this is the route I will go.

 

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1708&c=715&a=1430&f=HEX&dc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

[Frozen Burn]

On 2/16/2023 at 2:33 PM, Ice Ember said:

I am wondering if Bonfire with the KB to KD proc would keep the enemy spawn flopping with Blizzard dropped on top.  Thus keeping them in the Blizzard the entire time. 

 

 

My Main and namesake is an Ice/Fire/Fire blaster.  Had him since 2004 when the game came out.  LOVE these sets and powers.  But Blizzard already has a KD component to keep foes in it, so you don't need Bonfire (or anything else) to keep them in it.  This was a change made eons ago back in live.  It used to be that Blizzard caused foes to run (like Ice Storm or Fire Rain), but Blizzard was changed to KD so we could get full use of the "nuke."

 

The KD in Blizzard has a chance to miss a foe and if they are on the fringe of the AOE, they could possibly run out.  Blizzard also has a Slow component to help counter this, so it is rare that foes escape your blizzard.

 

Bonfire with the KB2KD proc in it... There is a greater chance that a foe can just walk right out/through it (versus Blizzard's KD).  I've seen it many times.  But this is still rare and mostly, foes are KD'd and it works as intended.  Bonfire is great for damage mitigation, and does decent DoT when slotted up. 

 

Now, I do use Bonfire and Blizzard together.  Blizzard on top of it increases the KD chance of the foes, sometimes 2 procs per sec (observed, not data-mined).  Watching them flop ultra fast is hilarious.  Having /Fire Manipulation, I also have Hot Feet, Burn, Cauterizing Aura, and Consume slotted for Damage to stack on top or use while Blizzard is recharging.  And of course, I also throw in Ice Storm too.  I can burn down +4 bosses and EBs quickly.

 

But since you'll be /Temporal and really only have the one extra AOE from it (End of Time), and with Blizzard already KD'ing your foes, Bonfire really isn't necessary, if you want or prefer another Epic.  Bonfire will still be useful and great damage mitigation, if you choose to still go that route.  Picking up Char from Flame Mastery is a great addition and will stack with Freeze Ray to hold pesky bosses (assuming you skip Bitter Freeze Ray).  If you do take Bitter Freeze Ray, like I did - you can easily hold elite bosses while you burn them down.  Plus, Flame gives you Rise of the Phoenix - What blaster doesn't love a self-rez?!  😄  

 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Frozen Burn

[kelika2]

Distortion Field

[Zect]

7 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

Now, I do use Bonfire and Blizzard together.  Blizzard on top of it increases the KD chance of the foes, sometimes 2 procs per sec (observed, not data-mined).  Watching them flop ultra fast is hilarious.  Having /Fire Manipulation, I also have Hot Feet, Burn, Cauterizing Aura, and Consume slotted for Damage to stack on top or use while Blizzard is recharging.  And of course, I also throw in Ice Storm too.  I can burn down +4 bosses and EBs quickly.

 

You have enemies nearly movespeed floored: blizzard + icestorm + hotfeet = -81.6% movespeed on +4's (cap is -90%). That is likely the more significant contributor to keeping enemies securely in your blizzard.

[Frozen Burn]

9 minutes ago, Zect said:

 

You have enemies nearly movespeed floored: blizzard + icestorm + hotfeet = -81.6% movespeed on +4's (cap is -90%). That is likely the more significant contributor to keeping enemies securely in your blizzard.

 

Yes, of course!  ...for those times I am standing in the middle of my Blizzard.  But I'm not always, depending on the situation, and I don't always drop Ice Storm on top of my Blizzard either.  When I do use all 3 at once, obviously, the slow effect is wonderous.  But when I'm at range, the KD of Blizzard and/or Bonfire is very helpful too.  But it's really the damage mitigation of the KD that is key.  Even when foes try to run, they'll shoot at you.  When they're flopping, they don't.  

[tidge]

I'm leveling a Water Blast/Atomic Manipulation/Flame Mastery, and I will occasionally double up Bonfire (currently with a Sudden Acceleration KB->KD piece) and Whirlpool. I notice plenty of Knockdown happening, it's not 100% but in my head I associate "missed knockdown" with a missed ToHit roll and not with the %proc rate. It's not so much that I'm trying to keep critters in the Whirlpool, it's more like I have enough targets in the same area that these two powers overlap. (I do like the visual display of them combined!)

 

I agree that Bonfire is NOT a good source of damage (inherent, or %damage), based on my experiences with it as a Dominator and Mastermind.  The cast IS a reliable source of Force Feedback %+Recharge for the player, but pseudopet nature doesn't seem to lend itself to %damage (could simply be the recharge of the pet's ticks, could be a "toHit check" for the %damage, could be something else). For this Blaster, Bonfire is simply an initial choice on the path to Fire Shield and Rise of the Phoenix... I hadn't planned on dedicating any extra slots to Bonfire, but I am liking the level of soft control (from the KD) so I'm going to dedicate a second slot to it to have it available more frequently, despite the relatively long ArcanaTime.