Tanker Me This

[SteelRat70]

My altitis has fully taken hold and new character ideas seem to come in to my mind even from innocuous and random words during daily conversation.  More generally these ideas end up as brutes or dominators, and whilst I've dabbled with Tanks, I've never really been able to find one that I can really gel with on HC, largely because it often feels like we're a little obsolete in the run of the mill PI  radio Pugs or TFs that I find myself on.

 

To give you an idea of what my particular idea of "fun" is, my absolute favourite character is a Stone Melee / Firey Aura brute.  Lots of damage.  Lots of noise, screen shake, disorients - he's a visceral character that is perfect therapy after a particularly bad day at work or whatever.  More recently, and in particular following the changes to weapon arcs on tank secondaries and brute primaries, I've been levelling a BA / Fire brute which was actually a fire / axe tank on live.

So, on to the question.. the axe character has a "Viking in Valhalla, brought back to the mortal world by a CoT ritual which doesn't go according to plan ending up in their slaughter and a new hero in Paragon roaming about".  I'd like him to have a buddy - perhaps another go of the ritual, or one of the other Valhalla residents following the original one through the portal.. something like that.  So keep in mind, theme / concept is important.

 

Primary-wise Id settled on Ice or Elec (leaning to wards Ice if I'm honest).  Secondary wise I thought I might go for WM.. buuutt on the surface it just looks like BA with a different weapon, and a lot of the weapon options are two handed which applied to a single handed animation looks a bit.. well.. naff.  There's one thematically good hammer weapon, but very often when he swings it he smacks himself in the head with it due to the way the BA animations are applied and the size of the hammer (in all honesty BA suffers with this issue as well).

Other possibilities might be TW - tried this before; initially took a while to get used to the momentum mechanic, but I don't know whether this works better with a tank?  Dark Melee or SS would be good possibilities for a weaponless theme, particularly DM's - to Hit with Ice's +Def and I hear good things about Lec / SS.

Apologies if this seems a bit rambled, I'm kinda brain storming here.  Hopefully you can make sense of that brain dump to maybe give me some possibilities I might have missed, or perhaps comment on some of those possibilities I've listed, even if that ends up being "You're better off with a brute".

Edited February 24, 2023 by SteelRat70

[lemming]

You could go with and Ice Electric combo?  I'm not sure what to suggest as the primary...   I've done each in attack and defense and they hold up well, each has some nifty features.  Though if I was to make another melee based on this, I'd go with Electric Melee and Ice Armour.  Only reason I'm not is I don't have a name lined up this second, and I've got about a dozen Alts I'm working on...

[SteelRat70]

I do have a SD / Lec Tank, but Ice / Elec could certainly work thematically, so definitely something to consider!

 

"I've got a dozen alts I'm working on"..

 

This is the way. 

 

From that point of view, the other option to "Which tank combo should I roll" is simply, "Yes."

[ZemX]

Re:Titan Weapons... I have a Rad/TW that I managed to get to 50 but don't play much anymore.  There's a few disappointing things about TW on tanks, IMO.   One is that while it looks like it has a whole ton of AoE, only the PBAoE is affected by Tanker Gauntlet radius/arc buff.  The rest were already wide cones that gain no benefit.  Two: A couple of the lower tier cones only hit 5 enemies.  Tanker cones normally hit 10.  I suppose the thinking here is that this many cones with Tanker target caps would be overpowered.  Three: The Momentum thing just doesn't do anything for me.  I managed to get used to it, but it seems more of a restriction than a benefit like other combo-builder mechanics are.  It felt more like telling me what I COULDN'T do or which attacks would be unbearably slow if I DIDN'T have Momentum.  i.e. It was helping fix a negative, not providing a benefit.  Mostly that's perception but it affected my enjoyment of the set.

 

Finally, another perception thing only: The set lacks impact.  It feels like swinging a telephone poll through tissue paper.  The swinging attacks anyway.  When it was an overhead or stabbing down attack, it at least felt like it was making contact with something.

 

Why not stick with Ice for the secondary?  You get two Ice Blades, Frost is a super-wide cone attack on Tankers that can be enhanced for Range and hit up to 16 targets.  The PBAoE is widened to 15ft, making it a Frosty version of Foot Stomp that can encase enemies in blocks of ice (though it's only a sleep... it looks neat tho).  You get Ice Patch.  And you get Freezing Touch which is a very nice, fast, single target attack (though it does DoT damage... the animation is fast I mean) and has a minor hold attached to it. 

 

5 hours ago, SteelRat70 said:

"You're better off with a brute"

 

You won't hear this often in the Tanker forum. 😈

[SteelRat70]

I think your summary of TW is also largely why I've never really been able to get on with it even on other ATs that I've tried it with (I hear it's godly in damage for Scrappers for example).  "You will be restricted unless you do this thing" rather than, "Things will be fine if you don't, but they'll be amazing if you do".

 

Ice / Fire secondaries.. Hmm.. this is going to sound unbelievably pedantic, but I'm not a sword fan - however, if the set is that good maybe I should build a bridge and get over that.  Wasn't there also talk of weaponless customisations for fire and ice animations?

 I can see this evening being a lot of trial and error.  And a lot of Viking themed alts.

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, SteelRat70 said:

Ice / Fire secondaries.. Hmm.. this is going to sound unbelievably pedantic, but I'm not a sword fan - however, if the set is that good maybe I should build a bridge and get over that.  Wasn't there also talk of weaponless customisations for fire and ice animations?

 

It's not precisely a weapon.  More of an elemental attack that looks like a sword.   You are creating it out of thin air, swinging it, and then it goes poof the instant you select a non-sword based attack like (in Ice Melee) Frost or Freezing Touch.   But if that doesn't appeal, you can do fine with just Frozen Fists (left-right punch with fists encased in ice), Frost (both hands held out in front spraying frost at enemies in a cone), Freezing Touch (fast single arm jab with mag 3 hold), and Frozen Aura (frosty foot-stomp PBAoE).  No swords.  You might supplement that attack chain with an epic attack or just well-slotted Boxing/Kick if you are going for Tough/Weave anyway.

 

Greater ice Sword is a nice big hit, but from a damage-per-animation-second standpoint, it's not unskippable.  Longish animation time.  You won't be giving up much overall DPS by going with a non-sword attack chain.  

 

In any case, both are viable so you could try with the sword attacks included and, if it bothers you, respec out of them.

[Xandyr]

If Ice/Dark fits your theme, then I say roll one! Energy Absorption is EASY to keep perma, and you can build to have capped Defenses to S/L/F/C/E/NE fairly easily. While your Resists won't be the greatest, you can take Melee Core Embodiment to really push up your Resists (and your Regen!). Your DM Attacks will debuff To Hit by 5.25% each (if not slotted for To Hit Debuff), and it'd be easy to keep a minimum of that on your enemy...essentially increasing your survivability. Siphon Life can be used as a "ghetto" Heal every (roughly) 3 seconds, with Hoarfrost backing it up.

 If you went Soul Mastery for your Epic, you could take Gloom (6 slot Superior Winter's Bite) to pump up your Fire/Cold Defenses (since they're the hardest to get to caps). Plus, it's a really good attack. Then, to top it off, take Darkest Night. Slot 3 Dark Watcher's Despair in it, and you're looking at another -22.79 To Hit Debuff...PLUS a 30% Damage Debuff...which stacks with Chilling Embrace's -Damage Debuff(which is 14%). Combined, you're going to be dubuffing an enemy's To Hit by a minimum of 28% AND their Damage by 44% (obviously their Defense Debuff Resistances may affect your To Hit Debuff...)

 Musculature Radial would be a perfect fit for your Alpha. It will boost your Damage,To Hit Debuffs, and End Mod.

 

 Downside to Ice/Dark....Resists (as mentioned earlier). Also, it looks like it would be/can be very end hungry. Luckily you have Energy Absorption and  Dark Absorption to offset that.

I played an Ice/Electric tank, and it was pretty sturdy and fun.

 

Heck...I think I might roll one now. 

Curse you! 😆

[Sir Myshkin]

I'd put some wager on to an Ice Armor/Titan Weapon Tanker. The look for it can go multiple different direction with the weapon skins, as an example straight up as a Valkyrie:

 

 

Or as a raging Viking:

 

Look at that Ice Man Glow!

 

When did you last try Titan Weapons out? The set was changed a little bit back so that to overall flow and feel was sped up, it doesn't drag quite like it used to and is rather fluid now by comparison. A lot of the abilities have Knock effects (down or up) so it will carry a smash and go presence as well.

[SteelRat70]

10 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

It's not precisely a weapon.  More of an elemental attack that looks like a sword.   You are creating it out of thin air, swinging it, and then it goes poof the instant you select a non-sword based attack like (in Ice Melee) Frost or Freezing Touch.   But if that doesn't appeal, you can do fine with just Frozen Fists (left-right punch with fists encased in ice), Frost (both hands held out in front spraying frost at enemies in a cone), Freezing Touch (fast single arm jab with mag 3 hold), and Frozen Aura (frosty foot-stomp PBAoE).  No swords.  You might supplement that attack chain with an epic attack or just well-slotted Boxing/Kick if you are going for Tough/Weave anyway.

 

Greater ice Sword is a nice big hit, but from a damage-per-animation-second standpoint, it's not unskippable.  Longish animation time.  You won't be giving up much overall DPS by going with a non-sword attack chain.  

 

In any case, both are viable so you could try with the sword attacks included and, if it bothers you, respec out of them.

I was playing around with the character creator last night and actually the swords don't look half bad.  Lots of uneven spikey bits so almost look like a club.  The Minimal FX settings for the armours are good too and I'm pretty pleased with the overall aesthetic.

 

 

[SteelRat70]

8 hours ago, Xandyr said:

If Ice/Dark fits your theme, then I say roll one! Energy Absorption is EASY to keep perma, and you can build to have capped Defenses to S/L/F/C/E/NE fairly easily. While your Resists won't be the greatest, you can take Melee Core Embodiment to really push up your Resists (and your Regen!). Your DM Attacks will debuff To Hit by 5.25% each (if not slotted for To Hit Debuff), and it'd be easy to keep a minimum of that on your enemy...essentially increasing your survivability. Siphon Life can be used as a "ghetto" Heal every (roughly) 3 seconds, with Hoarfrost backing it up.

 If you went Soul Mastery for your Epic, you could take Gloom (6 slot Superior Winter's Bite) to pump up your Fire/Cold Defenses (since they're the hardest to get to caps). Plus, it's a really good attack. Then, to top it off, take Darkest Night. Slot 3 Dark Watcher's Despair in it, and you're looking at another -22.79 To Hit Debuff...PLUS a 30% Damage Debuff...which stacks with Chilling Embrace's -Damage Debuff(which is 14%). Combined, you're going to be dubuffing an enemy's To Hit by a minimum of 28% AND their Damage by 44% (obviously their Defense Debuff Resistances may affect your To Hit Debuff...)

 Musculature Radial would be a perfect fit for your Alpha. It will boost your Damage,To Hit Debuffs, and End Mod.

 

 Downside to Ice/Dark....Resists (as mentioned earlier). Also, it looks like it would be/can be very end hungry. Luckily you have Energy Absorption and  Dark Absorption to offset that.

I played an Ice/Electric tank, and it was pretty sturdy and fun.

 

Heck...I think I might roll one now. 

Curse you! 😆

All of this is awesome info, thank you!  I've already rolled two based on the info / feedback I've already had, so this looks like it's going to be a third.  And actually as a side note, I do like creating characters that are part of an interconnected "Universe" as it were that are in some way linked to one another.  I've got that for most of my others, just not for my Vikings - this is a great opportunity to fill that backstory out in my head!

Oh and getting a stone melee / fire or even a BA / fire to 50 can be tricky in terms of end management and I do know that is one thing DM suffers with too, so that is kinda expected and actually it's probably only a real concern if I'm soloing.  On teams I'll be focussing on getting mobs to hit me, so that other people can do the arresting, rather than a rapid fire attack chain of smash like with my brutes (and even thinking of Volkanik being let off the chain makes me grin to myself)

Edited February 25, 2023 by SteelRat70

[SteelRat70]

3 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I'd put some wager on to an Ice Armor/Titan Weapon Tanker. The look for it can go multiple different direction with the weapon skins, as an example straight up as a Valkyrie:

 

 

Or as a raging Viking:

 

Look at that Ice Man Glow!

 

When did you last try Titan Weapons out? The set was changed a little bit back so that to overall flow and feel was sped up, it doesn't drag quite like it used to and is rather fluid now by comparison. A lot of the abilities have Knock effects (down or up) so it will carry a smash and go presence as well.

Probably about a year ago I think in terms of getting it much above level 25 or so, although I had another go with a TW scrapper relatively recently (within the last month) and he got shelved before level 10 (yes I know, barely even scratching the surface.. but so many alts and a hyperactive gnat attention span has it's downsides).  Maybe a bit more persistence is needed to give it a fair crack of the whip then!  Thematically, I'd say TW is right up there as #1 preference, so that'll be alt #4. 

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, SteelRat70 said:

I was playing around with the character creator last night and actually the swords don't look half bad.  Lots of uneven spikey bits so almost look like a club.  The Minimal FX settings for the armours are good too and I'm pretty pleased with the overall aesthetic.

 

Just a heads up if you're looking at the Ice Armor minimal effects and have no experience with how they stack in-game, be prepared to alter them some after earn them all and have them running. I have a second Ice Armor character that use the minimal effects because they're supposed to look more like they're in a cold soda and the snow effects and shaders don't quite all stack in such transparent ways that once they were all ontop of each other it wasn't what one might have anticipated.

[SteelRat70]

Yeah.. I think the only two that really detract from the full "minimalist but slightly frosty" look are Icicles and the other one that looks a bit like Invulns Unstoppable (not sure if it's wet ice, or the mez / status protection toggle).

It's fine though.. mid combat I would be less worried about relatively minor stuff like that 

[FinnS]

On 2/24/2023 at 5:42 PM, Xandyr said:

If Ice/Dark fits your theme, then I say roll one! Energy Absorption is EASY to keep perma, and you can build to have capped Defenses to S/L/F/C/E/NE fairly easily. While your Resists won't be the greatest, you can take Melee Core Embodiment to really push up your Resists (and your Regen!). Your DM Attacks will debuff To Hit by 5.25% each (if not slotted for To Hit Debuff), and it'd be easy to keep a minimum of that on your enemy...essentially increasing your survivability. Siphon Life can be used as a "ghetto" Heal every (roughly) 3 seconds, with Hoarfrost backing it up.

 If you went Soul Mastery for your Epic, you could take Gloom (6 slot Superior Winter's Bite) to pump up your Fire/Cold Defenses (since they're the hardest to get to caps). Plus, it's a really good attack. Then, to top it off, take Darkest Night. Slot 3 Dark Watcher's Despair in it, and you're looking at another -22.79 To Hit Debuff...PLUS a 30% Damage Debuff...which stacks with Chilling Embrace's -Damage Debuff(which is 14%). Combined, you're going to be dubuffing an enemy's To Hit by a minimum of 28% AND their Damage by 44% (obviously their Defense Debuff Resistances may affect your To Hit Debuff...)

 Musculature Radial would be a perfect fit for your Alpha. It will boost your Damage,To Hit Debuffs, and End Mod.

 

 Downside to Ice/Dark....Resists (as mentioned earlier). Also, it looks like it would be/can be very end hungry. Luckily you have Energy Absorption and  Dark Absorption to offset that.

I played an Ice/Electric tank, and it was pretty sturdy and fun.

 

Heck...I think I might roll one now. 

Curse you! 😆

 

Yeah Ice/DM is deceptively awesome.

Sure, your resists are harder to come by but at the same time you have a massive 50%+ recharge reduction + slow aura, a flat aoe 15% damage penalty, heals for days, a spamable aoe terrorize with a hefty -hit penalty attached. 2 separate Endurance recoveries and a pretty phat damage booster not to mention that Neg Energy is not only the least resisted damage type, it's also the damage type that mobs are most likely to be vulnerable to.

Lets not forget about hibernate at the end of the day either.

 

And of course who can't get behind a shadow frost theme

[SteelRat70]

Bit of an update after the weekend..

 

Ice / Ice - Currently at lvl 27.. superb character.  EA is nothing short of astounding, (defenses regularly at 60 odd % that you can build up to between groups) and the "mostly mitigation, few active attacks" approach is obviously effective for a pure tank, not to mention the aggro grabbing being an absolute doddle.  I also found it surprisingly effective even soloing because of the trickle of DoTs from Icicles and even the ice patch.  Definitely exceeded expectations.

Lec / TW - At lvl 28.   Again.. a pleasant surprise.  TW definitely flows better somehow now - although I think that's as much to do with me getting a better handle on how to use it as it is the improvements to the set.  For example, pre "Insta Momentum Build Up Power", using the attack with the shortest animation to generate momentum and following up with Defensive Sweep, was a much better way of doing things.

 

Definitely more damage oriented than the Ice / Ice, but Lec still seems pretty sturdy - I think possibly helped by the defensive buffs of TW.  The only time when I got in to trouble was when I went in one direction and the rest of the team went in to a different one.

Ice / Dark - He's still at level 1 as I was busy with the other two, but he definitely has my favourite name:  "Mjol-Noir"

Edited February 27, 2023 by SteelRat70

[FinnS]

11 hours ago, SteelRat70 said:

Lec / TW - At lvl 28.   Again.. a pleasant surprise.  TW definitely flows better somehow now - although I think that's as much to do with me getting a better handle on how to use it as it is the improvements to the set.  For example, pre "Insta Momentum Build Up Power", using the attack with the shortest animation to generate momentum and following up with Defensive Sweep, was a much better way of doing things.

 

 

 

The simple trick to making TW easy is all about Crushing Blow being your Momentum reset. It has the shortest activation time. You slot enough recharge so it's up at the end of your Mo windows.

Every combo is simply CB-->3-4 other abilities that fit in the Mo window-->rinse repeat

 

The single target combo of CB-->Rend-->Arc-->Follow is a silly amount of damage very quickly

The multi target combo of CB-->Defensive-->Titan-->Whirling is solid

 

Generally though, you want CB, Defensive Sweep and Follow through with right recharge timing so they're up every Momentum rotation which turns this into your main combo, alternating Arc and Rend every other rotation.

 

Once you get used to it, it's actually pretty smooth.

[SteelRat70]

 

My post probably would have made more sense if I'd have used the actual names of the powers, instead of "that one with the shortest animation time".

Thank you for those suggestions on the attack chain.  I quickly logged in to see what order I'd put the powers in on the trays, and I've got them set up in pretty much the order you suggest for your multi target combo - although I don't yet have Arc of Destruction.

Edited February 28, 2023 by SteelRat70

[ZemX]

15 hours ago, FinnS said:

Once you get used to it, it's actually pretty smooth.

 

I found it so against a single target... and not so much vs. a crowd.  When I am tanking, I do a lot of target switching and I like to pick whichever attack looks best based on enemy positions.  Having to worry whether it was time to hit CB first instead of the cone attack the situation called for in that instant was a downer.  It was one more distraction I didn't need. 

 

Someone who handles multitasking better than I do might have a better experience.