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Sir Myshkin

Proc Monsters - Controller Edition

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What is a Proc Monster? A build type bent on maximizing proc opportunities within a singular AT through specific sets that have the most potential for proc chances. Typically this would narrow down to sets that can bend at least 2, up to 5, procs in a singular power to exceed the normal limitations of that power, and do this with multiple powers within a given set. Each AT has a handful of sets that provide the most opportunities to do this, and through this path will carry those sets to a new level of performance outside their original design. We do this by maximizing global recharge, and minimize enhanced recharge by as much as possible. The proc formula was studied by Bopper and he has the formulas posted here.

 

Where Do We Begin?

At this point I know that the thread I started in the Defender's sub section has been circulating around to more and more people, so some [many] will be familiar with the concept of what I started working towards there, when I say I'm moving to Controllers to look at doing the same thing. For those unfamiliar, please start there as it will have a lot of relevant information pertaining to the support side of things for Controller secondaries, and the first batch of testing towards how those sets work with procs themselves. I'm basically the guinea pig testing all these different events and triggers based on the info we have about the formulas, and discovering how those interactions work in the game, and their consistency.

 

The break down is simple: explore and analyze the Proc options within the Controller AT and find the key sets that are optimally capable of bending Procs to their advantage in the fullest sense. For Defenders much of what I tested there is easily applicable to Corruptors since they are fundamentally the reverse of Defenders, and much of the blast set analyzation is relevant to Blasters. For Controllers, sharing their secondary with Defender primaries means I've already gotten half the work done since I know what Buff/Debuff sets are going to be best suited for bending Controllers towards Proc maximization.

  • Dark Miasma
  • Time Manipulation
  • Traps

As a technicality, I did give Trick Arrow an honorable mention (when paired with Archery), but at the necessity of needing Scorpion Shield to have any level of reliable defense, and it is a very thin margin to reach that 45% S/L/E. Controllers will suffer the factor of lower base buff levels on these sets being their secondary, but they should have enough over head to still work out in viability. Storm Summoning also has a unique place here as it is a proc-monster in-and-of-itself, but needs Scorpion Shield as well to patch it to a decent defense performance, but that set out puts an insane amount of raw damage for what it is.

 

Dark Miasma is also a little different for Controllers in that it has Fade and Soul Absorption, which the Defender version doesn't, and Fade can be bent to a Controller's advantage just like Farsight can in Time Manipulation. In many of the Defender builds I took a good chunk of the Leadership pool because it helped patch a lot (Defense and To-Hit), and were also pretty valuable as team buffs in the event of teaming coming off a Defender. Controllers, depending on how tight some of these builds may become, will likely end up passing some (or all) of that pool given they're flexing a different approach to combat.f

 

The Primaries:

Since I know what secondary options I'll have to work with, lets talk about Primary, and the fact that Controller's have a much wider spread of options for their Epic pools. Nearly all primary sets have a core fundamental structure of ST Hold, ST Immob, AoE Immob, AoE Hold, and a Pet, but the powers in between, and what total sets we can slot across those powers, are the key element of bending Controllers into becoming Proc Monsters. I did the math for us all, these are the sets in order of Proc-capable powers (I sub-noted the ones I'll be focusing on, and why):

  • Dark (9)
    • A lot of variety, nearly everything takes the Cloud Senses proc, and the pet gets some bonus procs.
  • Gravity (9)
    • Variety of proc options, and bonus options on the Pet.
  • Mind (7)
  • Plant (7)
    • Unique mechanics in a handful of the powers here, like Carrion Creepers, and how those ultimately trigger, their consistency, and the Pet also gets bonus options.
  • Fire (7)
    • I want to test Hot Feet as a damage aura bent on Procs instead of enhancement, and Cinders as a very straight-forward Proc AoE. I admit this one is a personal investment, as I really enjoy Fire and want to try and find some solutions to bend this set more effectively, so I'll be sharing those theory crafts just because.
  • Electric (7)
    • Chain Mechanics! This is a unique and interesting tool that Electric does in several of its powers.
  • Earth (7)
    • Quicksand, Volcanic Gasses, and Animated Stone. All three have a huge variety of proc opportunities that might deliver a handsome level of damage to Earth if they work. We might be able to bring this set out of the stone ages!
  • Ice (5)
    • Low priority, but Arctic Air has proc potential, and paired with what can already be added into the standard set of powers for Ice, these might be enough to give Ice a decent level of damage performance.
  • Illusion (4)
    • I theory crafted an interesting build for Ill/Traps during my Defender testing, and at some point (unless someone would like to try the build themselves for me) I may get around to dropping it.

Now for this, I only focused on powers that have a relevant assortment of procs, can take multiple (towards several) procs, and proc utility. I did not account for powers in sets that were restricted to one set, and/or any proc of consideration that was just part of the sleep or stun sets as there are no damage procs there, and their secondary utilities have a low(er) PPM value, lower Mag value, and/or don't significantly alter or enhance the impact of a power when multiplied against its inherent purpose. These were fundamentally already tested with Defenders in their Blast sets (procs like Entropics +Heal, Gravitational Anchor's +Hold, etc).

 

The Epics:

For Epic sets, since my primary focus is on powers that have the most variety of proc opportunities, and come with interesting secondary mechanics, or the potential to considerably increase performance, I've narrowed down the choices to a select few. Since most of the sets have a handful of blasts that don't have more than a 1 or 2 proc variety, and we already have a good idea how these are going to work, I'm skipping a lot of that. I'm going after the weird stuff I can "break."

  • Fire
    • Consume, I want to test how this triggers, consistency, and trying the Performance Shifter proc's flex in this ability (odds on low-body count performance).
  • Psionic
    • World of Confusion, Psionic Tornado, plus Indomitable Will would be a great inclusion to any combination if the recharge can be pulled through.
  • Earth
    • Fissure, Seismic Smash
  • Leviathan
    • Better testing on Water Spout and the Coralax Pet
  • Mace
    • Poisonous Ray and Disruption value with Procs, look into the consistency of the Spider pet -Res utility.
  • Soul
    • Dark Obliteration

 

Some of the epics have general patching that can help performance like Endurance issues, or boosting secondary effects like Power Boost, so Fire, Primal, Mu and Soul all have value there. Defense wise, shoring up even just S/L to passable softcap is harder and only available in Ice, Stone, and Mace (with Scorpion Shield being the best of the three). These are important to consider when trying to build a Proc Monster without Time, Dark, or Traps.

 

Incarnates:

Incarnates can help patch up short comings, or improve general performance in some key areas like Recharge, Endurance, or Mez Protection, but if possible the goal is always to find the best paths to do these things before getting to Incarnates so we can have more options instead of pigeon-holing into just Ageless or Clarion. For most of these builds I will most likely consider Intuition Radial the optimal Alpha Slot as it has a wide array of things it impacts, with Damage and Range being the most helpful. A secondary consideration would go to Nerve for pure Accuracy and Defense patching. The reasons we wouldn't want to go for things like Agility or Spectral are because those contain recharge enhancement, and that negatively impacts our Proc-ortunities.

 

Testing Path:

I'll break each test event I perform into an individual follow-up post in this thread, and at the end I'll put a capstone conclusion into this main topic with the results. My goal is to find the best primary Proc Monster that Controllers can provide. For Defenders that landed on bending the given Buff/Debuff sets when paired with Dark Blast, Water Blast, Dual Pistols, and Assault Rifle (as an AoE focus). This will take about a week or two for me to run through as time allows, but I have six build plans to analyze and test. Unlike with Defenders, however, I doubt I will pull Pylon Runs. We'll see. Controllers still lack (comparatively) the level of ST function that Defenders are capable of, and are much more crowd-centric in their powers, but a few excel at single target capacity, and those would be the ones I'm most likely to at least attempt a run on.

 

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Posted (edited)

Nice work as usual. Look forward to the results of your tests.

 

Edit: I have a special request. Try to look very closely at the Chain Mechanics. They aren't true Chains, but rather acts kinda like Enflame, as it summons a pet that looks in an area and hits 1 target, then repeats a few cycles. I can give you parameters of the chain_pets if you need them (radius, recharge, etc). I mostly want to confirm your results match what those parameters would dictate.

Edited by Bopper

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

What is a Proc Monster?

I feel loved again. 😜I'm glad to see this come to the Controller forum. Looking forward to the findings!

Edited by 5099y_74c05

 


Main Controllers

Dark/Cold/Ice - Electric/Poison/Mu - Fire/Dark/Fire - Illusion/Traps/Mace - Plant/Storm/Ice


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Posted (edited)

Stage One Electric Control

 

I don't know if there's enough time or testing in the world to fully cover the proc-brilliance of this set. I started with Electric because the chain mechanics sounded the most interesting to explore, and would be the one thing to deliver the most unique and early bang-for-buck time investment if they worked out positively. I do want to say, the way I've approached any of these Proc Monster builds was to initially look at the build collectively under the impression that everything would work as imagined, and try and fit it all in. Then, if it does, great! If not, then I've got slots to play with! I might have partially shot myself in the foot by trying to do this test with Electric AND Psionic Mastery at the same time, however, as I wanted more slots to play with, but I knew if it didn't all work, I'd have at least five to move around to new homes, so I was thinking pragmatically.

 

Jolting Chain

Lets be honest, this is the power we're all here for. I did some initial testing, and then went back and collected some of the actual raw damage from in the game to post in here. This first spoiler block is on spawn densely packed level 43 Malta, and the second spoiler is against just a single 43 Gunslinger, for comparison of AoE v ST.

 

AoE:

Spoiler

You activated the Jolting Chain power.
You blast Tactical Operative with your Jolting Chain for 0.01 points of energy damage!
Your Jolting Chain drains some endurance from Tactical Operative!
You blast Tactical Operative with your Jolting Chain for 34.36 points of energy damage!
You blast Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 1: Chain Jolt jumps a to a new target, zapping Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 1: Chain Jolt jumps a to a new target, zapping Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: You blast Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 37.73 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 37.73 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: You hit Tactical Operative for 126.99 points of bonus Toxic damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 3: Chain Jolt jumps a third time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 3: Chain Jolt jumps a third time to zap Gunslinger for 33.23 points of energy damage.
Jolting Chain is recharged.

 

 You activated the Jolting Chain power.
You blast Tactical Operative with your Jolting Chain for 0.01 points of energy damage!
Your Jolting Chain drains some endurance from Tactical Operative!
You blast Tactical Operative with your Jolting Chain for 34.36 points of energy damage!
You hit Tactical Operative for 134.88 points of bonus Toxic damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 1: Chain Jolt jumps a to a new target, zapping Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 1: You blast Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 1: Chain Jolt jumps a to a new target, zapping Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: You hit Tactical Operative for 134.88 points of bonus Toxic damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: You blast Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 37.73 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 37.73 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: You blast Tactical Operative for 189.54 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 3: Chain Jolt jumps a third time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 3: Chain Jolt jumps a third time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.

 

You activated the Jolting Chain power.
You blast Tactical Operative with your Jolting Chain for 0.01 points of energy damage!
Your Jolting Chain drains some endurance from Tactical Operative!
You blast Tactical Operative with your Jolting Chain for 34.36 points of energy damage!
You hit Tactical Operative for 134.88 points of bonus Toxic damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 1: Chain Jolt jumps a to a new target, zapping Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 1: You blast Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 1: Chain Jolt jumps a to a new target, zapping Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 37.73 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 37.73 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: You hit Tactical Operative for 126.99 points of bonus Toxic damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 3: Chain Jolt jumps a third time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 3: Chain Jolt jumps a third time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Jolting Chain is recharged.

 

You activated the Jolting Chain power.
You blast Tactical Operative with your Jolting Chain for 0.01 points of energy damage!
Your Jolting Chain drains some endurance from Tactical Operative!
You blast Tactical Operative with your Jolting Chain for 34.36 points of energy damage!
You blast Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus negative energy damage!
You hit Tactical Operative for 134.88 points of bonus Toxic damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 1: Chain Jolt jumps a to a new target, zapping Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 1: Chain Jolt jumps a to a new target, zapping Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 1: You blast Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: You blast Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 41.54 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: You blast Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 37.73 points of energy damage.
Chain Jolt Jump 2: You blast Tactical Operative for 189.54 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Chain Jolt Jump 2: Chain Jolt jumps a second time to zap Tactical Operative for 37.73 points of energy damage.
Jolting Chain is recharged.

And ST:

Spoiler

You activated the Jolting Chain power.
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 0.01 points of energy damage!
Your Jolting Chain drains some endurance from Gunslinger!
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 27.48 points of energy damage!
You blast Gunslinger for 161.05 points of bonus negative energy damage!
You hit Gunslinger for 134.88 points of bonus Toxic damage!
You activated the Tesla Cage power.
Your Tesla Cage holds Gunslinger, paralyzing them!
Your Tesla Cage electrocutes Gunslinger for 64.39 points of energy damage!
Your Tesla Cage drains some endurance from Gunslinger!
You hit Gunslinger for 134.88 points of bonus Toxic damage!
You hit Gunslinger for 94.41 points of bonus Lethal damage!
Your target takes 161.05 points of bonus smashing damage!
Gunslinger takes 134.88 points of bonus psionic damage!
Jolting Chain is recharged.
You activated the Jolting Chain power.
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 0.01 points of energy damage!
Your Jolting Chain drains some endurance from Gunslinger!
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 27.48 points of energy damage!
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 27.48 points of energy damage!
You blast Gunslinger for 161.05 points of bonus negative energy damage!
You hit Gunslinger for 134.88 points of bonus Toxic damage!
Tesla Cage is recharged.
Jolting Chain is recharged.
You activated the Jolting Chain power.
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 0.01 points of energy damage!
Your Jolting Chain drains some endurance from Gunslinger!
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 27.48 points of energy damage!
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 27.48 points of energy damage!
You hit Gunslinger for 134.88 points of bonus Toxic damage!
Jolting Chain is recharged.
You activated the Jolting Chain power.
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 0.01 points of energy damage!
Your Jolting Chain drains some endurance from Gunslinger!
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 27.48 points of energy damage!
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 27.48 points of energy damage!
You blast Gunslinger for 161.05 points of bonus negative energy damage!
Jolting Chain is recharged.
You activated the Jolting Chain power.
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 0.01 points of energy damage!
Your Jolting Chain drains some endurance from Gunslinger!
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 27.48 points of energy damage!
You blast Gunslinger with your Jolting Chain for 27.48 points of energy damage!
You blast Gunslinger for 161.05 points of bonus negative energy damage!
You hit Gunslinger for 134.88 points of bonus Toxic damage!
Jolting Chain is recharged.

 

One thing that's a tad frustrating is that the Force Feedback +Rech proc shows up under "Healing Delivered" in the combat logs, which is also what Panacea floods every ten seconds, making watching that window kinda frustrating unless you take that proc out, but given that, I did get that proc off against the Gunslinger 1 v 1, once in that string, which is nice. JC does all its checks on the first target for the player and it was still pretty good odds to get that proc to fire. I never saw a subsequent trigger on any following chain, but of course plenty of damage proc hits as those are baked into the chain pet each time it transitions.

 

Initially I tested this with three +Dam and the FF+Rech, under the impression that in a real-world scenario I'd likely have the AoE to help stop the bounce effect, but Electric doesn't actually contain a -KB component, so things just ended up scattered and incapable of regrouping. Lame, but also probably best to force me to scale back how much I was breaking this power. Yeah, Procs break this power. I tossed in KB/KD Sudden Acceleration and... it's absolutely hilarious to see this power cycle through a mob and just plant them all within ~2-3/s as it swipes left through the group. Worth pointing out too that the initial damage (even under containment) of the ability was far surpassed by the proc damage (by at least 2-3x more, if not 4x for the purple proc). Inherently is it better to slot five procs and a +5'd Accuracy, or do what I did with Acc/Dam and Acc/Dam/End Sup Winter's in the off-chance you don't get a proc on a chain, it at least does somedamage (9 v. 15).

 

Synaptic Overload

So, interesting power. I initially plugged it with the Controller ATO +Dam (set), but it has room for two +Dam IO's in the Confuse sets, so 2-3 potential options. The thing that ultimately hung me up is that I needed/wanted to pull for global recharge, and needed to look for solutions to that regard too, while testing. I ended up being mildly intrigued by the result. Keep in mind that the core of this power is to confuse a spawn on itself, so not only are they going to take damage, they're going to deal damage... to each other. The only downside here is that the power still has a lengthy recharge and I was reducing it down with enhancement to 15/s.

 

With one proc:

Spoiler

You activated the Synaptic Overload power.
You scramble the senses of Mercenary with your Synaptic Overload, confusing them!
Your Synaptic Overload drains some endurance from Mercenary!
You hit Mercenary for 201.32 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 1: Synaptic Overload jumps to Mercenary, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 1: Synaptic Overload jumps to Mercenary, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Mercenary, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: You confuse Mercenary even more!
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Mercenary, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: You hit Mercenary for 201.32 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 3: Synaptic Overload jumps a third time to Mercenary, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 3: You confuse Mercenary even more!
Chain Confuse Jump 3: Synaptic Overload jumps a third time to Mercenary, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 3: You confuse Mercenary even more!
Synaptic Overload is recharged.
You activated the Synaptic Overload power.
You scramble the senses of Operation Engineer with your Synaptic Overload, confusing them!
Your Synaptic Overload drains some endurance from Operation Engineer!
You hit Operation Engineer for 214.17 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 1: Synaptic Overload jumps to Operation Engineer, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 1: Synaptic Overload jumps to Operation Engineer, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Gunslinger, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Gunslinger, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: You hit Gunslinger for 214.17 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Operation Engineer, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 3: Synaptic Overload jumps a third time to Gunslinger, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 3: You hit Gunslinger for 201.32 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Synaptic Overload is recharged.

 

With three:

Spoiler

You activated the Synaptic Overload power.
Readying Hasten.
You scramble the senses of Gunslinger with your Synaptic Overload, confusing them!
Your Synaptic Overload drains some endurance from Gunslinger!
You hit Gunslinger for 214.17 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Gunslinger takes 143.49 points of bonus psionic damage!
Gunslinger takes 114.79 points of bonus energy damage!
You activated the Hasten power.
Your Hasten has increased your rate of attack.
Chain Confuse Jump 1: Synaptic Overload jumps to Gunslinger, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 1: You hit Gunslinger for 214.17 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 1: Synaptic Overload jumps to Tactical Operative, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 1: You hit Tactical Operative for 214.17 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Tactical Operative, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: You hit Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Tactical Operative takes 134.88 points of bonus psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Tactical Operative takes 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Tactical Operative, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Tactical Operative, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: You hit Tactical Operative for 201.32 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Tactical Operative takes 134.88 points of bonus psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Tactical Operative takes 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 3: Synaptic Overload jumps a third time to Gunslinger, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 3: You hit Gunslinger for 201.32 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 3: Synaptic Overload jumps a third time to Gunslinger, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 3: You hit Gunslinger for 201.32 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Synaptic Overload is recharged.
You activated the Synaptic Overload power.
You scramble the senses of Operation Officer with your Synaptic Overload, confusing them!
Your Synaptic Overload drains some endurance from Operation Officer!
Operation Officer takes 134.88 points of bonus psionic damage!
Operation Officer takes 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 1: Synaptic Overload jumps to Operation Engineer, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 1: You hit Operation Engineer for 201.32 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 1: Synaptic Overload jumps to Gunslinger, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Operation Officer, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Operation Engineer, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: You hit Operation Engineer for 201.32 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Synaptic Overload jumps a second time to Auto Turret, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 2: Auto Turret takes 38.09 points of bonus psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 3: Synaptic Overload jumps a third time to Operation Engineer, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 3: Operation Engineer takes 126.99 points of bonus psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 3: Synaptic Overload jumps a third time to Gunslinger, Confusing them.
Chain Confuse Jump 3: You hit Gunslinger for 189.54 points of bonus Psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 3: Gunslinger takes 126.99 points of bonus psionic damage!
Chain Confuse Jump 3: Synaptic Overload jumps a third time to Auto Turret, Confusing them.
Synaptic Overload is recharged.

One was a nice bonus, three, well, by the time it spread through the mob of 43 Malta, and got to the last one, the first minion in the group was dead from friendly fire, and by the last of it only one Gunslinger was left alive after 15/s. This power is a good place to get some otherwise unconsidered damage utility, but is typically a power set-muled for +rech, so it makes it a hard call. Still possible to drop the Superior Will set in there with at least one other damage proc (for two total), but it costs six slots to get there. With a bit more global recharge in a build, this isn't a bad place to grab a rather effective mass-confusion tool that does some bonus damage for the xp-credit-points.

 

Psionic Tornado

This ended up being a pretty straight-forward expectations test. Everything performs as anticipated, plenty of proc opportunities. Toss in whatever you can fit in the power as there's quite a few options. I went KD/KB, damage, and +Rech. Between this and JC, should be a lot of AoE potential and +Rech activations to keep the build as a whole pumping out a steady stream of global.

 

World of Confusion

Alright, everyone put on their conspiracy tin-foil hats for this one. I learned a new trick and it's kind of gross. So, we all know that damage aura for a non-mez-protected toon can suck, because the toggles will get shut off. Well, I was out testing this thing with a full load of procs, and I got mez'd (just for a blipping second, but it happened). I waited the few seconds for the power to kick back, and turned it on again in the spawn, and I got instant proc gratification. I was like "huh, that's odd, so many procs at start up?" So I turned it off and went in to the next spawn, and turned it on again.

 

Bam, instant proc gratification, again.

Spoiler

World of Confusion is recharged.
Your World of Confusion confuses Operation Officer!
Your World of Confusion further confuses Operation Officer!
You sear the mind of Operation Officer with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Your World of Confusion confuses Gunslinger!
You sear the mind of Gunslinger with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Your World of Confusion confuses Tactical Operative!
Your World of Confusion further confuses Tactical Operative!
You sear the mind of Tactical Operative with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Tactical Operative takes 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
Tactical Operative takes 134.88 points of bonus psionic damage!
World of Confusion missed!
Shutting off World of Confusion.

 

Your World of Confusion confuses Operation Engineer!
You sear the mind of Operation Engineer with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Operation Engineer takes 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
Your World of Confusion confuses Gunslinger!
Your World of Confusion further confuses Gunslinger!
You sear the mind of Gunslinger with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Gunslinger takes 107.9 points of bonus energy damage!
Gunslinger takes 134.88 points of bonus psionic damage!
You crush Gunslinger for 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You sear the mind of Operation Engineer with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Operation Engineer takes 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
You crush Operation Engineer for 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
Your World of Confusion confuses Operation Engineer!
You sear the mind of Operation Engineer with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Operation Engineer takes 134.88 points of bonus psionic damage!
Your World of Confusion confuses Operation Engineer!
Your World of Confusion further confuses Operation Engineer!
You sear the mind of Operation Engineer with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Shutting off World of Confusion.

 

World of Confusion is recharged.
Your World of Confusion confuses Operation Officer!
You sear the mind of Operation Officer with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Operation Officer takes 134.88 points of bonus psionic damage!
Your World of Confusion confuses Tactical Operative!
You sear the mind of Tactical Operative with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Your World of Confusion confuses Tactical Operative!
You sear the mind of Tactical Operative with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Shutting off World of Confusion.
World of Confusion missed!
World of Confusion is recharged.
You sear the mind of Operation Officer with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Your World of Confusion confuses Gunslinger!
You sear the mind of Gunslinger with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Your World of Confusion confuses Operation Officer!
You sear the mind of Operation Officer with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
You sear the mind of Tactical Operative with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Tactical Operative takes 134.88 points of bonus psionic damage!
Your World of Confusion confuses Tactical Operative!
You sear the mind of Tactical Operative with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
You sear the mind of Tactical Operative with your World of Confusion for 10.93 points of Psionic damage!
Tactical Operative takes 134.88 points of bonus psionic damage!
Shutting off World of Confusion.

 

Toggles have an activation trigger of 10/s for procs to fire. Its baked into their formula so that no matter what, anything that responds as a "toggle" effect, will be on a 10/s trigger regardless of the actual activation periods for the power itself. When I let WoC go longer than just turn-on-shut-off, the proc triggers didn't come off as being nearly as clustered up front as when I turned the power on. Now this is somewhat of a "duh" situation because "of course, it has an initial tick to proc" but how often are any of us knowingly entering melee at the appropriate tick point, and how many of those toggles can get reduced to sub-10/s recharges? Well, actually most of them. Some are a trade off of Rech/Animation, but on average probably around 4-5/s, maybe 6/s on the longer side of total time.

 

My mindset on toggle AoE's has suddenly shifted in an odd way. For a power like this, with an incredibly tight radius, but huge proc-ability (I have 4 in it, it can fit 5), I'd want to be able to control that effect is closely as possible, especially considering WoC causes things to wander in fear/confusion once the mob figures out what's going on. If I don't have them locked down or tightly packed, I'm not likely going to want to just leave that errant firing off, but I can cycle it very quickly. In fact I can cycle it faster than the toggle countdown (6.378/s to rech+anim). Is that worth the hassle? Well, guess that's not really up to me to decide, but Electric doesn't have a ton going on in 6.378 seconds of AoE besides two primary powers, and I only really need to find 1.848/s to fire WoC off every 4.58 seconds to make it worth the effort. It's an interesting thought pattern.

 

Gremlins

I wanted to do a more closely monitored watch of the BU proc on a pet, just out of curiosity. And I wanted to see how impactful the Gremlins would be having the Overwhelming Force KD proc. For those that may not have known, the Soulbound +BU proc can stack on itself (apparently). I dragged my two Gremlins throughout the RWZ for a bit and watched one of their combat windows and caught the trigger often enough, and then to my surprise, stacking on itself a couple of times. I feel like, in retrospect of MM's and their pet tiers, the data from setting these two procs into a t1 pet should logically come back as better than in the t3 pet. If I could get two Gremlins to trigger at least once every 10-15/s on average, with KD effect on nearly every single attack they performed (and on average two attacks on follow up for +BU), that's both an overall increase in damage and survivability. Something to think about down the road.

 

Conductive Aura

Tried out the performance shifter proc in this aura. It's a pretty gimme-free kinda toggle, wanted to see if the proc could/would be decent here. Strangely, out of sitting around in the midst of useless Rikti or Malta, or just about anything, I didn't really see it go off. The power saps down whatever you're surrounded by so eventually you can kinda just sit there for eternity waiting for something to happen, but I only caught it like twice in about five minutes in a group of 4/5, which wasn't great odds. For the single inherent slot for this power, figuring an End Mod is probably just a better option as I was getting more endurance return from sapping than the proc at that level.

 

Dark Miasma Side Notes

Two things here. When I first tested Dark Miasma on Defenders there was one thing I kinda glanced over with Howling Twilight. That ability can take a handful of procs (Positron and Impeded). I mean, who'd think to shove them in that power in the first place, but it can be brought down, and if you're firing it off anyway, what kind of odds does it get? Well, whether this is broken or not, I went around and fired it off on a bunch of mobs throughout the RWZ and you know what I got back? This:

 

Spoiler

You activated the Howling Twilight power.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Tactical Operative.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Operation Officer.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Tactical Operative.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Gunslinger.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Operation Officer.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Tactical Operative.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Tactical Operative.
You disorient Operation Officer with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You blast Operation Officer for 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
You disorient Gunslinger with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You blast Gunslinger for 107.9 points of bonus energy damage!
You disorient Tactical Operative with your Howling Twilight!
You blast Tactical Operative for 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
You disorient Operation Officer with your Howling Twilight!
You disorient Tactical Operative with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You disorient Tactical Operative with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You blast Tactical Operative for 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
You disorient Tactical Operative with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You blast Tactical Operative for 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!

 

You activated the Howling Twilight power.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Tactical Operative.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Tactical Operative.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Tactical Operative.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Operation Officer.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Tactical Operative.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Gunslinger.
Your Howling Twilight reduced the attack rate and movement speed of Operation Officer.
You disorient Operation Officer with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You blast Operation Officer for 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
You disorient Gunslinger with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You blast Gunslinger for 107.9 points of bonus energy damage!
You disorient Tactical Operative with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You blast Tactical Operative for 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
You disorient Operation Officer with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You blast Operation Officer for 134.88 points of bonus energy damage!
You disorient Tactical Operative with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You disorient Tactical Operative with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!
You disorient Tactical Operative with your Howling Twilight!
Your target takes 107.9 points of bonus smashing damage!

I got some really good averages of at least one proc per target, but quite often it was two, and always more procs than targets. If you've got the slots, free damage is free damage at that point. In a lot of my overall attempts at that power, I was nearly getting double procs on the entire spawn, more than anything less. As an opener into a spawn that causes mass stun, 100-140 damage is 25% of a level 54 minion, that's a great start to kick off an entire group solo. Drop a crazy-chain after it, and Tesla on the Boss... Gremlins do the rest? Seeing some pretty good choices there.

 

The other thing that was different about this Dark Miasma, and worth talking about, was/is Fade. I went Clarion Radial with this test so I could play with the Power Boost like effect. Fade is on a very short 60/s timer, and this set definitely needs more leveraged global recharge to get that power down far enough, but if it has access to PB every 60/s, between that and Indomitable Will, I think Dark on a Controller can get away without relying on a specific Destiny choice. Popping Clarion and then Fade, as built, jumped me to just shy of 45% defense to everything. If a bit more global can be squeezed into the build, with some kind of reliable ST damage, I might be able to get a Controller to perform at, or possibly better than the Defender variant. Plus, that Fade effect adds a little S/L resist, and it can all be shared with pets. Also comes with a bit of DDR, which is a nice touch too. And a +Regen, +Recovery PBAoE? I feel like there's a glitch in the Matrix...

 

Overall Impressions & Build:

Overall Jolting Chain is just a monster. The repeating proc capability there is just really good, better than I'd maybe expected. Recharges quick, has reliable utility, and really turns that power into a hard hitting, fast cycling nightmare for enemies. Tesla Cages and Chain Fences all perform as expected when proc-loaded. Tesla hits like a truck with five procs and a Acc/End packed into it. I definitely want to try and find a way to pack more global into these builds, especially just for Dark Miasma as I think this will be a really good secondary to carry into the others with its more diverse tools. I'll post the current tested build, and eventually put an updated one in the final posting. There's also several more epics to test and try and find the best choice to pair with these Proc Monsters. Indomitable Will is a nice tool, but a faster firing Power Boost would be a better choice for Fade.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(13), UnbCns-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(27), NrnSht-Dam%(29), GldJvl-Dam%(29)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(3), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Prv-Heal/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(5), Prv-Absorb%(7)
Level 2: Chain Fences -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(37), Rgn-Knock%(40), TraoftheH-Dam%(40), PstBls-Dam%(40)
Level 4: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A), ImpSwf-Dam%(11)
Level 6: Jolting Chain -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(36), Apc-Dam%(36), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(36), GldJvl-Dam%(37)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 10: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 14: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A), PstBls-Dam%(15), ImpSwf-Dam%(15)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23)
Level 18: Paralyzing Blast -- Acc-I(A)
Level 20: Fade -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(21), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(25), GldArm-End/Res(25), GldArm-3defTpProc(27)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(A), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(43), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(50)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Gremlins -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(33), SlbAll-Build%(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34)
Level 35: Indomitable Will -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(39), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Mind Over Body -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-Max HP%(42), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 44: Psionic Tornado -- Rgn-Dmg(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dam%(45), ExpStr-Dam%(46), FrcFdb-Rechg%(46), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(46)
Level 47: World of Confusion -- Ccp-Dam%(A), MlsIll-Dam%(48), Erd-%Dam(48), Obl-%Dam(48), Acc-I(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), Mrc-Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(9)
Level 50: Clarion Radial Epiphany
------------

 

 


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Side Note about Illusion Control

While not inherently part of testing for this thread specifically, I did do some stupid-aggressive short-term testing with Illusion/Storm in response to a build (I think it was Maxzero's? It's a bit late trying to remember) posted for getting a Pylon time down to the near-minute mark, and I spent some time messing around with it and looking at how it bent procs. Illusion doesn't have a crazy assortment of potential for Procs, but packing Blind and Arcane Bolt together alongside with all the insanity that is Storm Summoning, its a very busy combination that does a lot of fast damage, but is fickle in its ability to keep Phantasm in the fight (and suffers from loosing it). I had originally put together an Ill/Traps to consider testing for its ability to keep Traps alive and stacked behind Phantom Army, but the possibility of PB boosted Fade is also something I might consider as an opportunity too. Not quite as much total defense, but might be enough (overall) that Twilight Grasp can help keep the Phantasm alive and see what kind of performance a non-storm Illusion can do.

 

2 hours ago, Bopper said:

Edit: I have a special request. Try to look very closely at the Chain Mechanics. They aren't true Chains, but rather acts kinda like Enflame, as it summons a pet that looks in an area and hits 1 target, then repeats a few cycles. I can give you parameters of the chain_pets if you need them (radius, recharge, etc). I mostly want to confirm your results match what those parameters would dictate.

Hey, guess what, my first test was Electric! 😄

 

 

Edited by Sir Myshkin
Fixed errant bold tag
  • Like 2

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Heh, I mentioned a few times that Electric Control actually has GOOD AoE damage, and a lot of people snickered. But Jolting Chain goes from about 40 damage slotted up as a damage power (which is basically useless for damage), to about 200 with IOs. The activation chance is 59%, for about 41 damage, per IO.

 

Pretty much all AoE mez powers with a Recharge of 90+ seconds will have a 90% chance to activate a damage proc if Enhancement slotting is at 50% or lower (and it's going to be, if you're putting many damage procs in it). So you CAN get good damage out of any AoE Hold, and a bit of damage out of AoE Stuns. The Stuns are generally limited to 2 procs, so you're getting about 128 damage out of them... this may be worth it as extra damage, though it would stop you from getting the +Recharge bonus from 5 slots of some sets. You get more damage out of the Holds since you can squeeze in more Procs, but... it's still only a pretty weak nuke, and it's on a really long recharge.

 

However, the interesting powers are Heart of Darkness and Fearsome Stare in Darkness Control. Heart of Darkness is a PBAoE so that opens up more damage procs, and with a 90 second recharge, it's worth slotting it up since you'll get to use it reasonably often. I have it set up like that in my Dark Controller. And Fearsome Stare isn't as good with the procs since its lower recharge drops their chance a bit, but it still gets 50+ damage from each IO and you're using it at the start of every fight in any case. So with 2 damage procs (Cloud Senses and the Fear IO) it does 100 damage, and gets the +Recharge bonus from Cloud Senses, and it can still fit in a +ToHit proc which helps you with your following attacks since it's probably your opening IO.

 

Other powers: I'm not sure how Earthquake procs damage procs, but it should proc FF like Tornado, which is a 90% chance to activate on the drop only. Spectral Terror procs both the Fear and the Controller ATO IOs both on the drop and on its subsequent attacks. I proc Sproing Attack on my low-AoE characters, since it has the 90% chance to activate them and I think it pushes the power to around 400 damage at 50.

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You really need to add Enflame out of the Sorcery pool (and if you're dipping into the Sorcery pool anyway, might as well add in Arcane Bolt, which can slot in Knockback sets) for additional proc monster research purposes.


IifneyR.gif

Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

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Illusion/Dark Controller - Incredibly happy with this combination itself.

 

I slotted Overwhelming Force (Chance for KnockDown) into Phantom Army and never looked back. Each pet runs their own Proc cycles, and I'm constantly seeing knockdowns. They're bullies now!

 

Dark Servant is a pet bloated with Proc potential but I decided to throw on him "Touch of the Nictus" to get that extra edge of damage when the heals he occasionally throws out. I'm content with it.

 

I placed Superior Will of the Controller on Spectral Terror to also add damage to a pet that seemed to lack in damage. It appears to proc upon being summoned/and/or casting. With the short cool-down of this pet I find myself constantly summoning it to help aid in damage. At one point I slotted the Fear disorient and some other damage proc. Ultimately I turned to slotted more Superior Will set for the bonuses because I wanted to get Phantom Army's recharge on point.

 

For Incarnates I have both Cognitive and Diamagnetic Interface Procs. I couldn't really deduce how much chaos the confusion Procs were causing but I have seen them. I slotted the -Regen one later to see if I could solo any GM's. Turns out I can solo Lusca Tentacles and other small GM's but it's just not worth the time.

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51 minutes ago, Nayeh said:

Dark Servant is a pet bloated with Proc potential but I decided to throw on him "Touch of the Nictus" to get that extra edge of damage when the heals he occasionally throws out. I'm content with it.

Procs in pets only fire when the pet uses a power that could slot that proc. If a pet only has a single power that uses a given proc, that will normally mean you'll just get the expected performance (if it's a 3.5 PPM proc, it will proc approximately 3.5 times per minute rather than more). However, if a pet has two or more powers that use the same proc category and they don't interfere with one another and the pet can operate constantly, then you can potentially do better.

 

For Dark Servant, the only proc that seems to make sense is Cloud Senses. The rest would be limited to a single power it uses.

 

10 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Storm Summoning also has a unique place here as it is a proc-monster in-and-of-itself, but needs Scorpion Shield as well to patch it to a decent defense performance, but that set out puts an insane amount of raw damage for what it is.

I think you'll find building towards Ranged Defense much easier than using Scorpion Shield with Storm Summoning. While Steamy Mist isn't as massive a boost as Fade or Farsight, it's still quite sufficient to soft-cap defenses once you add on pools and IO sets.

 

That being said, Mace Mastery has a -res ST attack, a knockback AE and you can mule all the defensive pet IO uniques into any of the patron pool pets. So it might be a strong choice even if you could reach your defensive goals in other ways.

Edited by Hjarki

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47 minutes ago, Nayeh said:

I slotted Overwhelming Force (Chance for KnockDown) into Phantom Army and never looked back. Each pet runs their own Proc cycles, and I'm constantly seeing knockdowns. They're bullies now!

 

Huh? Okay, I understand the situation and the effects, but why bother doing this? Any mob that is hit by a decoy is Taunted by that decoy, and for a few seconds it's "controlled" by being forced to attack a target that it can't affect. While it's cute to see multiple knockdowns, it doesn't seem to add any damage mitigation if, for a few seconds, a mob is busy getting up... rather than uselessly attacking the decoy. It's the Taunt effect that's the real damage mitigation, and that runs separately from any knockdowns. The only thing that you gain with a knockdown is that the mob can't hit the decoy with an AoE effect that may then hit you... but I don't think that happens enough times, to take up a valuable PA enhancing slot. I'd rather put in Soulbound's Build-Up, or go over the ED cap on Recharge.

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Hmmmm….interesting. I think the Jolting Chain needs some extensive testing. I think each summoned pet ("Chain Jolt Jump #") has a 15 foot radius and a 4 second recharge (but also 4 second activate period). I suspect the formula is using the activate period, which means it would use the activate period of the proc (10 seconds) which is why you're seeing pretty decent performance. If I have time this weekend I'll want to do some extensive testing with it. Overall, the Jolting Chain (and others like it) might have a decent advantage, as the initial cast is single target (higher Proc performance) then the pet chain adds an AoE attack layer that uses a 10 second ActivatePeriod in a 15 foot radius, which can hit up to 14 additional targets beyond the single target.

 

Again, I need to get a lot of test samples to confirm this. But I have a hunch...

 

I am curious though, do the jumps all have to be unique targets, or if you had 3 targets would the jumps keep bouncing between them? If so...that would be significant.

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23 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Hmmmm….interesting. I think the Jolting Chain needs some extensive testing. I think each summoned pet ("Chain Jolt Jump #") has a 15 foot radius and a 4 second recharge (but also 4 second activate period). I suspect the formula is using the activate period, which means it would use the activate period of the proc (10 seconds) which is why you're seeing pretty decent performance. If I have time this weekend I'll want to do some extensive testing with it. Overall, the Jolting Chain (and others like it) might have a decent advantage, as the initial cast is single target (higher Proc performance) then the pet chain adds an AoE attack layer that uses a 10 second ActivatePeriod in a 15 foot radius, which can hit up to 14 additional targets beyond the single target.

 

Again, I need to get a lot of test samples to confirm this. But I have a hunch...

 

I am curious though, do the jumps all have to be unique targets, or if you had 3 targets would the jumps keep bouncing between them? If so...that would be significant.

I’ve only ever seen it chain to new targets.  

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4 minutes ago, SmalltalkJava said:

I’ve only ever seen it chain to new targets.  

I suspect you're right. I see that one of the things the attack does is set the mode (of the target) to kChain_Jolt_Mode and it seems to last for the remaining duration of the Jolting Chain attack. The jolts also seem to require a check of the target to determine the kChain_Jolt_Mode is not set.

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23 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Hmmmm….interesting. I think the Jolting Chain needs some extensive testing. I think each summoned pet ("Chain Jolt Jump #") has a 15 foot radius and a 4 second recharge (but also 4 second activate period). I suspect the formula is using the activate period, which means it would use the activate period of the proc (10 seconds) which is why you're seeing pretty decent performance. If I have time this weekend I'll want to do some extensive testing with it. Overall, the Jolting Chain (and others like it) might have a decent advantage, as the initial cast is single target (higher Proc performance) then the pet chain adds an AoE attack layer that uses a 10 second ActivatePeriod in a 15 foot radius, which can hit up to 14 additional targets beyond the single target.

 

Again, I need to get a lot of test samples to confirm this. But I have a hunch...

 

I am curious though, do the jumps all have to be unique targets, or if you had 3 targets would the jumps keep bouncing between them? If so...that would be significant.

Jolting Chain starts with a single target attack that also summons two psuedo-pets. That single target attack appears to proc at the expected rate for single target attacks.

 

Those two psuedo-pets fire off a single attack each and summon two (?) psuedo-pets of their own. These pseudo-pets appear to proc at the expected rate for psuedo-pet attacks (hard to tell exactly), which will be lower than the initial attack (since you don't get the global recharge benefit to PPM). This process continues for a few iterations until you've reached the target cap. It does not appear that any enemy can be affected more than once by the power (you can't summon it on an AV for 16x damage).

 

Normally, you'd slot this with Apoc, Javelin and Explosive Strike. Assuming no recharge is slotted, this gives you ~60% chance on normal procs and ~75% on purple procs for the initial strike. The psuedo-pet chance to proc seems slightly lower - but not by all that much. I don't believe there's any portion of the power that involves area effect factors at all.

 

It's also very likely that you can slot Jolting Chain for recharge without significantly penalizing its proc chance. If we assume that the psuedo-pet proc chance is 30%/37.5% (which I believe is conservative), then the difference between 100% recharge slotting and 0% recharge would be 60% + 30% * 14 = 4.8 procs per activation vs. 30% + 30% * 14 = 4.4 procs per activation. This small difference not only suggests that slotting Jolting Chain for recharge makes sense, but it makes Agility a very strong choice for Alpha.

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4 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

Jolting Chain starts with a single target attack that also summons two psuedo-pets. That single target attack appears to proc at the expected rate for single target attacks.

 

Those two psuedo-pets fire off a single attack each and summon two (?) psuedo-pets of their own. These pseudo-pets appear to proc at the expected rate for psuedo-pet attacks (hard to tell exactly), which will be lower than the initial attack (since you don't get the global recharge benefit to PPM). This process continues for a few iterations until you've reached the target cap. It does not appear that any enemy can be affected more than once by the power (you can't summon it on an AV for 16x damage).

 

Normally, you'd slot this with Apoc, Javelin and Explosive Strike. Assuming no recharge is slotted, this gives you ~60% chance on normal procs and ~75% on purple procs for the initial strike. The psuedo-pet chance to proc seems slightly lower - but not by all that much. I don't believe there's any portion of the power that involves area effect factors at all.

 

It's also very likely that you can slot Jolting Chain for recharge without significantly penalizing its proc chance. If we assume that the psuedo-pet proc chance is 30%/37.5% (which I believe is conservative), then the difference between 100% recharge slotting and 0% recharge would be 60% + 30% * 14 = 4.8 procs per activation vs. 30% + 30% * 14 = 4.4 procs per activation. This small difference not only suggests that slotting Jolting Chain for recharge makes sense, but it makes Agility a very strong choice for Alpha.

You're correct, for no recharge the single target cast should be 58.7% and 75.5% for the 3.5 and 4.5 PPM procs, respectively. The cast will summon 2 pets, those 2 pets will each summon 2 more pets, and those 4 pets will each summon 2 more pets (1 + 2 + 4 + 8 = 15 targets max, 14 from pets).

 

My numbers, assuming the 15 foot radius (that is used to find a nearby target for the chain) is correct and the Proc's activate period is used for calculations (10 seconds), the probability to proc is 21.7% and 27.9% for the 3.5 and 4.5 PPM procs, respectively. This is where I need to do extensive testing to flesh out if my calculations are correct or if there is a different formula (or different numbers used in the formula). 

 

As for the theory-crafting of slotting recharge, you're right, the performance difference in using 100% recharge and 0% recharge is about 6.5%, however this assumes you will always hit 15 targets. That's a hearty assumption to make as not all mobs will have this many enemies and the accuracy of the jolts is not auto-hit (I believe a break in the chain will not fire off any more summoned pets). Now, given that this power only has an 8 second base recharge there might be no need to use anything more than global recharge (150% global will bring it down to 3.2 seconds, and an extra 100% slotted recharge will bring it down to 2.29 seconds). Finally, casting Jolting Chain on the same mob too quickly might be detrimental as the kChain_Jolt_Mode flag might still be active when the power is recast, which could prevent a target from getting hit again. Now, if it's a large enough mob, this might not be a big issue, but if it's only a few enemies, it could play a part. I'll be honest, I wouldn't be too worried about the flag issue as the cast time is fairly long (2.07 seconds, and whatever else added with arcanatime) and longest flag duration I see comes from the first Jolt pet that gives a 5 second duration on the kChain_Jolt_Mode. So odds are it will wear off before the target gets hit again.

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6 hours ago, SmalltalkJava said:

I’ve only ever seen it chain to new targets.  

I've seen it chain on targets already hit, but its only on larger groups. I actually think its a cooldown timer (possibly 5s) that prevents it from chaining to a recently hit target. I'll see if I dig up the thread on the old forums; I think it was @oedipus_tex or ketch that test JC back then and commented about it.

Edited by 5099y_74c05

 


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@Sir Myshkin I see in your Elec/Dark build that for  jolting chains you have Sudden Acceleration: kb to Kd.   Jolting Chains already just does knockdown.   I just wanted to let you know, in case you missed it,  or if it was on purpose then you could school me on why 🙂

 

 

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6 hours ago, Redlynne said:

You really need to add Enflame out of the Sorcery pool (and if you're dipping into the Sorcery pool anyway, might as well add in Arcane Bolt, which can slot in Knockback sets) for additional proc monster research purposes.

I tested Enflame when I worked with Defender sets to try and patch up a lack of damage in certain areas, and also worked with it testing Ill/Storm, but both of those powers are taking investment away from other areas within a Primary/Secondary, and unless there's a substantial reason to go after them, they're not always going to be the best choice. Taking Elec/Dark as an example. Slotting was already super tight in trying to find places to maximize all options, and honestly if I wanted to try and balance all of the AoE fun, I just couldn't. 

 

After a certain point, if all we're doing is filling up on okay-but-interesting proc-filled pool powers, we're not really bending the truth of a given power set, just modding it into something different, which massively defeats the purpose.

 

6 hours ago, Nayeh said:

Dark Servant is a pet bloated with Proc potential but I decided to throw on him "Touch of the Nictus" to get that extra edge of damage when the heals he occasionally throws out. I'm content with it.

This got brought up in the Defender thread as well, and like @Hjarki said, Cloud Senses is the one that makes the most sense (aha) as it impacts everything instead of just one or two specific abilities.

 

5 hours ago, Hjarki said:

I think you'll find building towards Ranged Defense much easier than using Scorpion Shield with Storm Summoning. While Steamy Mist isn't as massive a boost as Fade or Farsight, it's still quite sufficient to soft-cap defenses once you add on pools and IO sets.

Honestly, no, building towards Ranged isn't easier as it forces me to sacrifice slot options in other powers in order to chase set bonuses, which kind of defies the whole effort of the experiment in maximizing what--and how many--procs we can fit into an individual ability. Just like what was discussed in the Storm Summoning thread, in some cases a sacrifice has to be made one way or the other, and in the case of Ice/Storm Corr, I could pack all of the necessary bonuses to get S/L/E and Ranged, but it was in no way a total Proc Monster because of what was sacrificed to get there. It has and uses Procs, but not to the fullest extent. But that really just comes down to a specific play style choice more than anything, and I've seen your builds for it too. To keep to a plug-and-play style though, Scorpion is just the fastest, simplest way to get immediately to the 45% S/L/E target with just one power stacked on Weave and the two 3% IO's. It doesn't really require any further thought beyond that.

 

3 hours ago, Bopper said:

I am curious though, do the jumps all have to be unique targets, or if you had 3 targets would the jumps keep bouncing between them? If so...that would be significant.

I spent more time focused on Jolting Chain than any of the other abilities I tested, and for that power it (as I saw it happening) was ST on each hit, but knowing how the pseudo pet functioned, my guess was it hit the first target, created an aoe field check for nearest targets and spread two pets, repeating this process (as already mentioned eventually in this thread), but the key was that each hit acted as a ST event and proc'd accordingly. Aside from the FF+Rech, I felt pretty comfortable in that the events were proccing at a reasonable expectation.

 

As for cycling on itself, I never saw a repeat trigger from the same activation, however I did basically auto-fire JC into a group and that did impact uniquely of the previous one and didn't cause any hiccups or missed chains, so if there is a unique identifier to stop repeating on a target, it either dispels quickly, or is unique to each activation of Jolting Chain. I would think it makes more sense for it to be unique to each activation given two players firing the same attack would cancel each other out, but I didn't really experience a failure of the attack when I looped it within a 5/s window.

 

3 hours ago, Hjarki said:

This small difference not only suggests that slotting Jolting Chain for recharge makes sense, but it makes Agility a very strong choice for Alpha.

I have to inherently disagree with this over just one power, given that Agility impacts the entire build, not just this one singular attack, so that Recharge Enhancement is weighing against everything, and can be potentially detrimental in certain cases that currently have a high consistency, and don't need the added reduction.

 

44 minutes ago, SmalltalkJava said:

I see in your Elec/Dark build that for  jolting chains you have Sudden Acceleration: kb to Kd.   Jolting Chains already just does knockdown.   I just wanted to let you know, in case you missed it,  or if it was on purpose then you could school me on why 🙂

Without looking too specifically into it, when I was on test it was tossing mobs all over the place so I figured the mag was a bit higher, maybe not enough to warrant KB on things with some resistance, but it was all over the place. That's why I tossed it in, and everything went from "super fly!" to "sit down." I never once (prior to placing the SA KD) saw anything less than KB effect, never KD. I did not look into it any further than that.

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Could you have been testing on lower-level mobs and thus getting the Knockback value increased from 0.67 to something high enough to cause knockback? Or using some other +Special power or Incarnate slot that increased Knockback?

 

My recollection of Jolting Chain from Red Tomax's site is that the flag only lasted 2 seconds. However, speaking as a programmer, I have to wonder whether the flag might be unique to each power activation... for one thing, Gremlins use a copy of that power, and for another thing, you may have 8 Electric Control character in a team. It wouldn't make sense to have it be a global flag that blocks other Jolting Chains from working on the target. So, it would make sense that the RecentlyJolted flag is applicable to that power activation, rather than globally. So, if that was set up correctly, you shouldn't be able to self-block the Chains.

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1 hour ago, Coyote said:

Could you have been testing on lower-level mobs and thus getting the Knockback value increased from 0.67 to something high enough to cause knockback? Or using some other +Special power or Incarnate slot that increased Knockback?

 

My recollection of Jolting Chain from Red Tomax's site is that the flag only lasted 2 seconds. However, speaking as a programmer, I have to wonder whether the flag might be unique to each power activation... for one thing, Gremlins use a copy of that power, and for another thing, you may have 8 Electric Control character in a team. It wouldn't make sense to have it be a global flag that blocks other Jolting Chains from working on the target. So, it would make sense that the RecentlyJolted flag is applicable to that power activation, rather than globally. So, if that was set up correctly, you shouldn't be able to self-block the Chains. 

From what I'm looking at (i24 data dump), Jolt_1 has a 5 second duration, Jolt_2 has a 4 second duration, Jolt_3 has a 2 second duration. They also have a "Period" of 3.25, 2.25, and 1.25, respectively. I don't know which one matters.

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RE: Jolting Chain behavior

May lend some insight as to applied "proc"ing behavior and chaining **(with Arcanaville explanation of mechanics)**:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120905153152/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=235533

 

-End applies to first target only:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120911085731/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showpost.php?p=3657601&postcount=6

 

Keep in mind these posts are dug out of the archive; its possible and probable a patch may have invalidated these threads.

Edited by 5099y_74c05
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Thanks, that thread explains everything.

Well, everything except for Nemesis. But I'm not sure that I'd believe any explanation that seemed to explicitly explain Nemesis.

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17 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Thanks, that thread explains everything.

Almost everything. I'm still vague on what happened to @oedipus_tex's pants...on second thought, maybe its better we never know.


 


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3 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I have to inherently disagree with this over just one power, given that Agility impacts the entire build, not just this one singular attack, so that Recharge Enhancement is weighing against everything, and can be potentially detrimental in certain cases that currently have a high consistency, and don't need the added reduction.

Recharge is only a penalty when it pushes the rate at which the attack recharges below the rate at which you can feasibly use it.

 

With a Blast set, this tends to occur if you slot any recharge at all into the single target attacks because the three-attack chain is already so tight.

 

However, on a Controller, the ST chain is normally a two-stroke Hold + 8 sec recharge pool attack. This attack chain has to slot recharge to close the rotation anyway, so you might as well get it from your Alpha.

 

On an Electric Controller, your AE works the same way. You've got two 'rotational' AE - the Immobilize and Jolting Chain - both on 8 sec recharge that require slotting recharge to close the rotation. Everything beyond that is proc-chance-capped no matter what recharge you thrown at it, so additional recharge is pure upside (and more upside than Musculature).

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I had completely forgotten about that thread, and that Electric Control character.

 

Electric/Force Field, which I took all the way to 50. I still don't know why, probably the lowest damage thing I ever rolled. But I had a different tolerance for such things back then. 🙂

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1 hour ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

RE: Jolting Chain behavior

May lend some insight as to applied "proc"ing behavior and chaining:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120905153152/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=235533

 

-End applies to first target only:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120911085731/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showpost.php?p=3657601&postcount=6

 

Keep in mind these posts are dug out of the archive; its possible and probable a patch may have invalidated these threads.

Great find Soggy, and everything Arcanaville mentioned seems to hold up in my spreadsheets.

Cast Jolting Chain will hit as a Single Target ranged attack with an accuracy mod of 1.0

If target is hit, 2 Chain_Jolt_Pets will be summoned, the first will be after a 0.25 second delay, the other will be after a 0.50 second delay. These pets will have a 15 foot radius, max target of 1, and an accuracy modifier of 2.0.

If a Chain_Jolt_1 hits, it will summon 2 more pets, the first after a 0.5 second delay, the other after a 1 second delay. The accuracy modifier will be 1.5.

If a Chain_Jolt_2 hits, it will summon 2 more pets, the first after a 1 second delay, the other after a 2 second delay. The accuracy modifier will be 1.0.

The Chain_Jolt_3 will not summon more pets.

So the sequence of a max 15 hits will be: 0, 0.25, 0.50, 0.75, 1.00, 1.25, 1.50, 1.75, 2.00, 2.25, 2.50, 2.75, 3.00, 3.25, 3.50

 

There was some good nuggets in there I did not know about the combat mechanics, for example the AoE missing a target but continues to look until it hits (or hits the max target cap), that's good stuff. Also getting confirmation about the Chain_Mode flag is important. With too many players using Jolting Chain, it could render its effects useless too harsh, it could degrade its performance.

Edited by Bopper
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