Best AT for Titan Weapons / Bio Armor?

[Vhalidictes]

So, I've been spending man-days in MIDS looking at Scrappers, Brutes, and Tanks for a new TW/BA character, and what's really throwing me is Bio Armor / Adaptation.

 

I'm looking to solo high level content at x8/+3 (or thereabouts), and Adaptation is very much skewing the theoretical performance.

 

For example, Tank + Offensive Adaptation + Musculature Core Paragon vs Brute + Efficient Adaptation + Cardiac Radial Paragon vs Scrapper + Defensive Adaptation + Nerve Core Paragon all give... vaguely similar numbers. 

 

Is there a clear winner there for damage vs survivability? Does a Defensive Brute trump an Offensive Tank build?

 

If anyone has experience with different ATs with these powersets I could use some advice.

[Snarky]

Tank will be slightly more survivable Brute will do more damage.  Either will do the job.  Big caveat… with a good build.  Not to be insulting but my Snarky butt thinks if you could build good you would know this info.  Simple suggestion: get build from a master.  Not an insult.  Every invulnerability build i make is a Hyperstrike build or a 99% copy.  Find a Bio Titan builder who makes one for what you are doing.  
 

Goid luck

[Spaghetti Betty]

Personally, I would be leaning more towards the Tank. While it is true that TW doesn't benefit from the Gauntlet AoE increase, what does happen on a Tank is that you can maximize damage output through heavy proc slotting without worrying about your survivability taking a big hit. It is entirely within the realm of possibility hardcapping your S/L RES and softcapping E/NEG/F/C DEF while sitting in Offensive Adaption.

[nihilii]

Tanker is the best option here, and in general. Offensive Tanker tends to beat Defensive Scrapper/Brute in overall efficiency, for most +3/x8 solo scenarios*. Tankers more or less sacrifice ~20% damage output for >4x survivability.

 

Even though TW was specifically excluded from some of the Tanker buffs, it's still a beast of a set. And a Bio Tanker gets to enjoy the 90% resistance cap, as well as higher base health and max health scaling extremely well with +absorb, +regen and heals.

I have both tw/bio and bio/tw Scrappers and Tankers (no Brutes because lolBrutes... unfortunately).

The Scrapper is an absolute beast for burst damage, and very high up in sustained. Still one of the top tier combos to this day.

But the Tanker still does respectable numbers.

 

As a reference point, I built that bio/tw Tanker to attempt the solo Master of ITF +4/x8 without incarnate powers or inspirations challenge, and I *almost* could make it. Missing just the tiniest bit of damage output and/or survivability to handle +4 Romulus and Nictus without pulling tricks.

But it soloed the previous mission (level 54 Romulus archvillain, level 54 Requiem archvillain) just fine. Without incarnates! That's damage alright.

FWIW and as an aside, I would not run a tw/bio Scrapper in Defensive + Nerve. Capitalize on your damage, run Musculature + Offensive. Scrappers can grab Shadow Meld if they need to shore up their defenses. This stacks extremely well with bio armor, pushing your defenses above the softcap and possibly into incarnate softcap range.

-
(*one COULD make the argument the Scrapper has *enough* survivability if played well, so the Tanker survivability is overkill and the Scrapper is therefore better. I personally die enough against the strongest factions I find use for extra survivability, but YMMV depending on your skill level.)

Edited March 12, 2023 by nihilii

[PLVRIZR]

Tank (see sig for tank bias).

[Snarky]

46 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Tanker is the best option here, and in general. Offensive Tanker tends to beat Defensive Scrapper/Brute in overall efficiency, for most +3/x8 solo scenarios*. Tankers more or less sacrifice ~20% damage output for >4x survivability.

 

Once you have attained survivability.  And Brutes can survive +3/+4 built right.  (All armors have weaknesses, Tank or Brute beware your weaknesses) 

 

Once you have attained Survivability you want damage.  For me the Tank Armor is not the desirable part.  It is whether the greater Tank AoE impacts and how much you are clearing.  That 20%? damage ...  Why throw it away for survivability you are not using?

[nihilii]

Ya, that's my asterisk part. If you feel confident in your ability to handle +3/x8, go for it.

 

(although I would always go Scrapper, and never Brute. The ~20% damage difference refers to that. Between Brute and Tanker the gap is closer, as Bio is heavy on damage boosting and Brutes get less absolute and even less relative boosts than Tankers there.)

 

"built right" is also a tricky proposition. If you shoot for too many defense bonuses on a TW/Bio Brute, if you go Barrier rather than Ageless, you're going to lose some of that damage gap with the Tanker who is built fully offensive. Perhaps even all of that damage gap... Perhaps the Tanker will even outdamage the Brute when all is said and done.

Personally I find I can always use survivability up to Tanker levels and beyond. For me, a Scrapper or even a Brute would not even come close to cutting it in a solo no insps no incarnates +4/x8 MoITF, for example. I tried - I wipe on regular groups.

Even when situations don't directly result in death, extra survivability often gives more leeway to lay down maximum offense rather than focus on survivability clicks.
 

Edited March 12, 2023 by nihilii

[GM Impervium]

Moved to "archetypes" forum.

[Snarky]

6 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

Moved to "archetypes" forum.

where all threads go to die 🙂

 

[Redletter]

The smart answer is Tanker -- tanker's lacking biggerest orange numbers is isnt such a big deal when they just dont ever die. Like, a bio tanker "built right" is functionally unkillable by just about anything that hasnt been specifically designed by the devs (past and present) to say "aha, yes, I see your big numbers and I choose to piss on them", and when you ARE functionally unkillable, not hitting for 80-150~ damage (depending on what class you're compared to) isn't such a big deal.

Like, the goal is to kill things before they kill you regardless of the AT you choose. If one of those ATs can't really die, they are the ultimate winner.

 

However, I would argue the *fun* answer is Scrapper, because while you arent even close to unkillable, you get *BIG* orange numbers from your red flavored buffs being the biggest and you being able to crit everything you swing at.

 

For what it's worth, Strom has done testing comparing the attack sets across Scrappers, Brutes, and Tankers. Here's that thread...

But to spare you some reading, *BRUTES* are the ones who get the fastest clear times of the three sets even accounting for Scrapper Crits. Now, of course, milage may vary. But, if you're a TW/Bio brute you'll have a much easier time keeping your fury up than a willpower brute will which will see you with a higher dps than what strom was getting (on top of your other abilities to pump your damage over what his build is capable of).

 

Ill say this much. I played TW on a tanker and on a scrapper. I did not have fun on my Bio/TW tanker, but i had a lot of fun on my TW/Bio scrapper -- and according to Strom's math, Brute sees better functional returns from TW than the other two classes who get it.

Really though, you should play a TW Stalker, but we're not ready as a society for that yet...