Good place for ATO proc in Spines/Ice build?

[ClawsandEffect]

Decided to roll up a Spines/Ice scrapper as a general all arounder to have fun with. Not super pressed about pulling off crazy stuff with him, since my powerset choice was based mostly on getting the name Chilling Scene and the fact that I can't recall ever having seen a Spines/Ice (the fact I don't see a thread talking about it in the first 10 pages supports that). 

 

Gotta admit though, I don't know Spines very well. It's the only classic scrapper primary I never played to a high level. 

 

Therefore, I'm a little stumped on where to put the 50% crit chance proc. My instinct is to put it in Lunge so I have the option of using the crit proc on either Ripper or Spine Burst when it fires. 

 

What say thee, oh Scrapper forum hivemind?

[Nayeh]

You might be better off looking at Spines/ builds and /Ice builds separately and then join the overall consensus together.

 

Otherwise, perhaps try asking a player named (/getglobalname Spice Merchant) on Everlasting - They're a Spines/Ice Brute I have seen around and recall them having a super cool costume and theme. Anyway, perhaps they can also provide you guidance from their Brute perspective.

[ClawsandEffect]

Oh no, I'm fine on the overall build. 

 

I have an /Ice brute already and my wife has a Spines that works pretty well, so I'm picking her brain on that half a little. I don't really need help in that regard. 

 

I'm literally just not sure where the best place for the Critical Strikes proc would be for Spines. 

[Nemu]

I put it in ripper. The cast/recharge times are longish so the proc has a better chance to fire in that power. You'll never use spine burst for single target so it's a poor place for the proc,

 

There were some posts way back about using Spine/Ice for cold farms. For regular play the main draw is the double damage+slow auras. While the build does ok AoE, single target is abysmal. Endurance can also be an issue with double auras, even more so if you take leadership. I took medicine for the endurance return with aid self with field medic on my build.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I have a 50 spines/ice scrapper and it's ok, but I don't love it.  That's mostly the spines part.

 

I skipped Ripper because I can't stand the animation, but to me it's the logical place to put it for a few reasons.  It's got one of the highest probabilities to proc of any Spines power AND it will hit up to 5 targets in a 90 degree arc with a 7 foot radius.  I don't know about you, but I'm generally going to get at least three enemies in that arc as long as there are at least three enemies left.  If your base chance to proc is 50%, then your base chance to NOT proc is also 50%, and if you hit three enemies then your base chance of NOT proccing on any of them is 1-(0.5*0.5*0.5) = 87.5%.  Downside:  If you are only fighting a single hard target, your chances obviously drop; Ripper might not even be in your rotation for a single target; putting the proc in Ripper means that Critical Strikes won't be active for Ripper.

 

Also, Ripper has a long animation time before effect.  That means that if Critical Strikes activates during Ripper, there is not a ton of dead time before you can make the next attack.  With 2.574 seconds left out of the 3.25 seconds window of Critical Strikes, you can get off Throw Spines and Lunge (possibly Quills!) as opposed to just a single attack.

 

That said, I currently have it in Spine Burst and with up to ten targets it activates almost all the time, but I will never get off more than one attack afterwards with Critical Strikes active.  Except Barb Swipe and something else, but I also don't use Barb Swipe.

[ClawsandEffect]

Thanks for the input, guys. 

 

I think I'm going to go with my instinct and put it in Lunge at first and see how I like it there. 

 

My thought process is as follows: 

 

If it is in Lunge, when it activates I have 3 choices of what I activate next depending on what I'm fighting. If I'm knee deep in a big spawn I can fire Spine Burst and stand a decent chance of critting on a good chunk of them. Several targets, Ripper. Single hard target, Impale. 

 

I don't always like a set attack chain I never deviate from. On some builds I like options so I can adjust my play for the situation. 

[Meknomancer]

I did find an old spines/ice saved in mids (terrible memory, i like to give credit where its due) but i forget who posted it that looks pretty impressive, looks like ATO sets went in damage toggles which i assume means they'll be firing off way more than any single target when your in mobs:

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

SPINES ICE: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Ice Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Barb Swipe    
 (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
 (3) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
 (3) Hecatomb - Recharge/Accuracy
 (5) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
 (5) Hecatomb - Damage

Level 1:    Frozen Armor    
 (A) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
 (7) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime
 (9) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime
 (9) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
 (11) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (11) Reactive Defenses - Defense

Level 2:    Lunge    
 (A) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
 (13) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (13) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
 (15) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
 (15) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
 (17) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage

Level 4:    Spine Burst    
 (A) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
 (17) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
 (19) Armageddon - Recharge/Accuracy
 (19) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
 (21) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge

Level 6:    Build Up    
 (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 8:    Hoarfrost    
 (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
 (23) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
 (23) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
 (25) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
 (25) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
 (27) Preventive Medicine - Heal

Level 10:    Chilling Embrace    
 (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 12:    Wet Ice    
 (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 14:    Boxing    
 (A) Empty

Level 16:    Glacial Armor    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (27) Red Fortune - Defense
 (29) Red Fortune - Endurance
 (29) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
 (31) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
 (31) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance

Level 18:    Quills    
 (A) Superior Critical Strikes - RechargeTime/+50% Crit Proc
 (31) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage
 (33) Superior Critical Strikes - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (33) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
 (33) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (48) Superior Critical Strikes - Damage/RechargeTime

Level 20:    Energy Absorption    
 (A) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
 (34) Synapse's Shock - Damage/Rechage
 (34) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Recharge
 (36) Synapse's Shock - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
 (36) Synapse's Shock - EndMod

Level 22:    Tough    
 (A) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
 (48) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
 (48) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
 (49) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 24:    Weave    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (47) Red Fortune - Defense
 (47) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance

Level 26:    Ripper    
 (A) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
 (36) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (37) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (37) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
 (39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 28:    Permafrost    
 (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 30:    Hasten    
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO
 (34) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 32:    Throw Spines    
 (A) Ragnarok - Chance for Knockdown
 (42) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
 (42) Ragnarok - Recharge/Accuracy
 (42) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
 (43) Ragnarok - Damage

Level 35:    Icicles    
 (A) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus
 (39) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Recharge
 (39) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (40) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (40) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (40) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage

Level 38:    Icy Bastion    
 (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 41:    Super Speed    
 (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 44:    Maneuvers    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
 (45) Red Fortune - Defense
 (46) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
 (46) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
 (46) Red Fortune - Endurance

Level 47:    Combat Jumping    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (49) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
 (50) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

Level 49:    Assault    
 (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 1:    Critical Hit    
Level 1:    Brawl    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Sprint    
 (A) Empty

Level 2:    Rest    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Swift    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Hurdle    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Health    
 (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
 (21) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
 (43) Miracle - +Recovery

Level 1:    Stamina    
 (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
 (43) Performance Shifter - EndMod
 (45) Endurance Modification IO

Level 41:    Speed Phase    
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1611;695;1390;HEX;|
|78DA75945B4F534110C7FFA7E760A550B060B995DA16E55A3816E225DE12153041A|
|9C134F1B5D67629D54A9B1613F91ABEF8E62511133F876F0AFA3594BBB7441F4C1D|
|CE9C81AD869334F9EDCECC7F6667B69B7C32D5BCB63A7B1546CB643153ADA653D94|
|AA65C56958664265FC8823E5F6A6EE6F6742A3A3339EDA565503CD2495554CABEF3|
|B8502C567BF677A7D4BC5AAC2A7B26ABD2D72A8F4A15F8E74AA5A27DA3905F582A2|
|CE67DCE2A55562AD7EAE0ACCAE454A5BA502837CBBA4C7E81E972216B5F2FE596D3|
|C94C75495596BB287B947ECFF7CA38F86A1610F700E3163C18111866B0302430C0B|
|0324C31C6417403F0DD742C47F095E128760576187CF826B0CDF0C2ABAB908C8187|
|702CCD7820506068C182409EE118E6195E928CA99FC5C4158FEB7299A10D97042E3|
|21CC705865714DDA045D3E22D5B7A0601AF7E4A2F36B8F00EAC0B7C61E8C2A6C016|
|430F3E338448A651934123625C782F599A744B93580C2ACAAF17E5478D3E8429A25|
|52FA91541C34DD7C2D0EB3838D0C470027E011FC36B920FE8320128CB75B9C71045|
|56E0BE408EE13432AE3355D36EEC8FB066B563872D316C086C329CC496C03A83494|
|504B522CC207E9B6E829F023F1812F8C5605150A716E4E99406D8D2005B4EB942BE|
|DDFABDE8C6364D36EC14C3700A9B02E00403A4E940840E17D28713C204BBF4916E5|
|8B31861C4E19ED68537E412D15347709E6587714EE0ACC01986114C304429759F3E|
|9E3E7C92EA3E08AC320C624DE0A3C07B8618C9F4EB97A8DF69DDDEF9A9BC21DD328|
|410C704C812D753C7A5BFA3D2D65169F4985CB031B9606372F73A48C6D6C7648B4C|
|02B738D338FEC029A68D7C137AA313F22F8858F5CF4CADD7AA7FB59C4DFA5BCC1EB|
|23F67D53F30B470F6B77CF5C2E2BF7DC8FECE3FFB34A698E93E23770D7778370906|
|2DECFEEFFB4CE6FBD4E37630CA077C37523F87DA5F8ED2CC3C|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

I’ve put the CS proc in damage auras before, but what I don’t like about that is that I have no control over *when* it procs so it’s possible you don’t get any benefit of the proc sometimes.

[Meknomancer]

23 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I’ve put the CS proc in damage auras before, but what I don’t like about that is that I have no control over *when* it procs so it’s possible you don’t get any benefit of the proc sometimes.

 

 

I have no idea if its a good idea or not to toss it in the auras, i just thought it was an impressive looking build hitting that much recharge and decent def numbers. I don't number crunch i just figure if your in a mob then it'll fire off more often which is a good thing on spines/ice because the single target damage from the primary is pretty much as puny as it gets so you may as well go all in on an aoe beast and melt large numbers. But i totally get that you'd want more control over when it fires off when facing something like an av/gm.

[ClawsandEffect]

On 3/18/2023 at 4:39 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

I’ve put the CS proc in damage auras before, but what I don’t like about that is that I have no control over *when* it procs so it’s possible you don’t get any benefit of the proc sometimes.

 

I had the same problem with my Sonic/Devices blaster. Put the Gaussians BU proc in Targeting Drone, and noticed that it frequently fired when I got no benefit from it. I eventually moved it to Amplify and it worked much better.