Brute vs Scrapper

[drgantz]

I know that this has been discussed many times, but I want to give my perspective.

 

To my knowledge, the only advantage that a Scrapper has is critical hits.  This makes it better at the beginning of a fight.  It isn't long before a Brute's Fury increases the damage to exceed a crit.

 

When I start a new toon, I do the Matthew Habashy arc.  Near the end is a room full of force doors.  I usually destroy the doors because there is a badge for destroying 100 doors.  For most toons, it takes around 12 hits to destroy a door, give or take a few.  When playing my StJ/WP Brute, it took around 6 hits to destroy the door.   There aren't many fights  before that room, so I can only do so much to build up Fury.

 

Please feel free to agree or disagree with me.

[honoroit]

max fury on a brute is hardish to sustain. on my fire farmer brute, i get some 250-300% normally, not 600 or whatever. it can get to that in the khalisri maps or caves with cosplayers... but in corners or if im supplementing w reds. maybe im doing it wrong. thos is at aggro cap.

 

so 0.75×3.00 is 2.25, that may balance against crits.

 

what i dont know if if its counted towards the damage cap when you crit... i.e. is the scrapper buffed potential much higher if ALSO somehow damage boosted?

 

i also have not much understood scrappers, who should have aoe taunts if theyre going to have that take a slot... stalkers seem a better choice to me, and hide is very useful.

[Uun]

The other factor that may tip it is the scrapper ATOs. One set has a global bonus increasing the chance to crit, the other has a proc that adds 50% to the chance to crit for 3.25 seconds. 

[Hjarki]

For equivalent attacks, you need about +170% damage on an attack for a Scrapper to be equivalent to a Brute. You'll normally get about +125% of that from internal slotting and Alpha. For sets like Shield and Bio, Scrappers are almost strictly harder-hitting than Brutes even without any external buffing. With external buffing, Scrappers start to easily pull ahead.

 

In practice, proper use of the Scrapper ATO proc means that they'll almost always do more single target damage than Brutes even on armor sets that don't provide any +damage.

 

With that in mind, Scrappers will under-perform on sets with non-crittable attacks (damage auras, ongoing 'burn' or 'poison' effects) and sets where the critical is replaced by some other feature.

 

Brute feel really strong in the early game because you just don't have much +damage. +170% damage isn't much for an Incarnated 50. With the kinds of enhancements/buffs you'd expect at level 10, it's. impossibly far away.

 

[drgantz]

Thank you everyone for your advice.  It was all very useful.  I've decided to keep my MA/EA Scrapper as is, and not reroll to a Brute.

[Hjarki]

3 hours ago, drgantz said:

Thank you everyone for your advice.  It was all very useful.  I've decided to keep my MA/EA Scrapper as is, and not reroll to a Brute.

Note that for Martial Arts, Brutes/Tankers receive +defense from Storm Kick while Scrappers/Stalkers do not. As a result, Martial Arts is a bit of an unusual choice for Scrappers.

[SomeGuy]

Honestly, after the Tanker changes, the talk should be Tanker vs. Scrapper

 

They made brutes irrelevant.

[biostem]

Part of the issue, IMHO, is that with almost all sets proliferated to all relevant ATs, it now becomes a matter of which inherent/ATO/APP/PPP do you like better...

[drgantz]

4 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Note that for Martial Arts, Brutes/Tankers receive +defense from Storm Kick while Scrappers/Stalkers do not. As a result, Martial Arts is a bit of an unusual choice for Scrappers.

Since Brutes don't crit, then Eagle's Claw would also be at a disadvantage since EC gives a crit bonus.

 

Also, I know that ATOs are, but I don't do what APP or PPP are.

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, drgantz said:

I don't do what APP or PPP are.

Ancillary Power Pools and Patron Power Pools.  The former become available at level 35, and the latter have the same minimal level, but require you complete a short mission arc with one of the 4 Arachnos lieutenants, (Captain Mako, Ghost Widow, Black Scorpion, or Scirocco).

 

For reference:

APPs

PPPs

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by biostem

[drgantz]

Thanks.  I know what they are, I just didn't know the abbreviation

[Hjarki]

2 hours ago, drgantz said:

Since Brutes don't crit, then Eagle's Claw would also be at a disadvantage since EC gives a crit bonus.

Eagle's Claw gives a +damage effect for Tankers/Brutes rather than +critical. However, Eagle's Claw is a terrible attack in any version that you probably shouldn't take in the first place.