City billboard questions

[LegionAlpha]

1 hour ago, SeraphimKensai said:

The one of the left strangely reminds me of Lady Grey for some reason. Maybe there's a storm coming and we just don't know it yet?

 

A story that will never be resolved. Oh well. 

[cranebump]

Assuming you start a character from level 1, your journey occurs right after an alien invasion (or WITH it, if you do the GC tutorial). This is perpetual with every toon you start (assuming you run anything associated with the story). The billboard reflects what is happening during that time, and seems pretty logical, from a narrative perspective. Beyond that, I'm not sure what the issues are with it, since this is a fictional world.

[cranebump]

3 minutes ago, LegionAlpha said:

 

A story that will never be resolved. Oh well. 

It already came. It was dealt with. Mostly...*

 

*(please see (PLAY! PLAYPLAYPLAY!) my AE Mobius arcs for details).

 

{ahem...}

Apologies. Here ends my:

[cranebump]

6 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

To the folks unfamiliar with Rikti infiltrators do the Kelly Uqua arc and read the hints along the way.

Just pulled it up. It's all there - and not really a hint. 

 

Was there any follow-up on this?

[Vindicator]

2 hours ago, SarahTheM1 said:

My only problem then is that it begs further questions like whether the city would allow billboards of that nature to be put up in the first place.

 

It really doesn't.  Now, stop being overly sensitive and looking for things to be offended about.

[SarahTheM1]

5 hours ago, Vindicator said:

 

It really doesn't.  Now, stop being overly sensitive and looking for things to be offended about.

A few folks are expressing that they are mildly uncomfortable with this one specific thing and nothing else. But please, by all means, keep smacking that strawman around.

 

Speaking OOC, this is well-trodden ground and I leave it up to the reader (not that anyone will) to go look up something like the Arkham City Catwoman controversy, which was similarly brushed off by claims of "realism" as if such things are unavoidable and inevitable rather than conscious inclusions. Or something like the second South Park game which had "funny social commentary" baked into its character creator, but left some people put off because they simply didn't need to be reminded of real world ills in their escapist fantasy. I realize that in those cases they were a lot more overt and explicit bits of nastiness reflecting real life kinds of unpleasantness and nobody here is a space alien being legitimately discriminated against, but if you're going with the justification of "obviously some people are gonna be racist against aliens no matter what, too bad" then that comes part and parcel with people who can pick up on the obvious subtext and feel like that vibe doesn't actually have to be included in the game.

 

7 hours ago, cranebump said:

Assuming you start a character from level 1, your journey occurs right after an alien invasion (or WITH it, if you do the GC tutorial). This is perpetual with every toon you start (assuming you run anything associated with the story). The billboard reflects what is happening during that time, and seems pretty logical, from a narrative perspective. Beyond that, I'm not sure what the issues are with it, since this is a fictional world.

The "1-50 is the in-game timeline" ship has sailed loooooooooong ago and is incredibly easy to poke holes in in ways both big and small. So early game zones are permanently time locked to five minutes after the Ritki War? How do you explain things like the AE or auction houses? Are those non-canon? How do you reconcile the Echo of Atlas Park if, by this logic, that Atlas Park is the one your level 1 character is supposed to arrive in? Is the Cyrus Thompson memorial and community center in Kings Row a time paradox, because the in-game events that lead to their creation take place in an obscure TF somewhere in the midgame levels but affect a zone meant for levels 5-10~? There's also an inherent contradiction created by trying to play fast and loose - Atlas Park simply cannot be both in the immediate aftermath of the Rikti War AND dealing with the humanitarian crisis of the destruction of Galaxy City simultaneously, they are mutually exclusive. Occam's Razor, some content and story elements are old news by now and the world has kept turning. It does not, in fact, revolve around your character exclusively.

 

I do see what you're getting at, that every character experiences a somewhat subjective timeline of events over the course of 1 to 50. But the tricky thing is that once you introduce subjectivity to it, you can't claim my subjective interpretation is inherently wrong while yours is right. I can't help but wonder how fire farmed characters see the world with that in mind. Hop into VR for <unspecified amount of comic book time> and pop back out to the world being threatened by about 10 different apocalyptic threats (and in several cases their own aftermath and fallout) happening simultaneously. 😵

 

But quite frankly I'm now done here, because if we're getting into the weeds of "it's fictional so it doesn't matter", well, speaking of vibes I could do without... Have fun!

Edited April 27, 2023 by SarahTheM1

[cranebump]

@SarahTheM1, I'll readily concede there's all sorts of anachronisms, etc. in the game/lore, which are readily apparent with even a cursory glance. That said, I think the presence of such only proves the canon timeline is messed up (and/or the presentation of it is). However, none of that negates the fact that the events are canon, because something in the narrative world led to them, even if they're not presented in proper sequence. That's my whole point - whether the narrative jibes with what's happening today is immaterial to what happens in the fiction, because the fiction is its own universe. Whether it makes me uncomfortable is immaterial, really. In fact, from a narrative perspective, it might be better than it does, since the last reaction I want to elicit with my story is apathy (which a completely sanitized campaign world would most certainly lead to). I'm neutral on the billboard issue, honestly, beyond merely stating that, if it's part of the campaign lore, that's enough justification to have it there.

 

Beyond that, I would like to respond to a couple things here:

25 minutes ago, SarahTheM1 said:

I realize that in those cases they were a lot more overt and explicit bits of nastiness reflecting real life kinds of unpleasantness and nobody here is a space alien being legitimately discriminated against, but if you're going with the justification of "obviously some people are gonna be racist against aliens no matter what, too bad" then that comes part and parcel with people who can pick up on the obvious subtext and feel like that vibe doesn't actually have to be included in the game.

If there's a narrative explanation that justifies its inclusion, that is absolutely all that's needed. Mentioning "obvious subtext" here is impugning the world builders by insinuating they have some other agenda than representing the denizens of the game world. Further, it would have been colossally stupid to try to intentionally alienate anybody in the real world back in the day, when people paid to play this game.  Beyond that, I can't tell here if you're saying this particular "vibe" is due to people offering their argument, above, or the billboard itself. 

 

33 minutes ago, SarahTheM1 said:

But quite frankly I'm now done here, because if we're getting into the weeds of "it's fictional so it doesn't matter"

It really doesn't matter, as far as this particular situation goes. We're a small population, playing a dead game. And most fiction, in and of itself, doesn't matter all that much. A lot of it is bubble gum entertainment, and ours here is no exception. This isn't to say all fiction cannot make a true impact on society, but a billboard alluding to what seems to be a single story arc on Redside is small fish. A minnow, maybe. Like, a baby one...that you can't even see most of the time. It's really not worth the amount of time either of us has spent discussing it, honestly, because, as you so correctly noted:

38 minutes ago, SarahTheM1 said:

A few folks are expressing that they are mildly uncomfortable with this one specific thing and nothing else.

 

...the tricky thing is that once you introduce subjectivity to it, you can't claim my subjective interpretation is inherently wrong while yours is right.

First statement: Sums it up.

 

Second statement: Correct. And the reverse is true, as well. All I can do is go back to the fact that the billboard actually is based on in-game lore, granting it a narrative reason to exist, which, if you're storytelling is the only justification you need to include it. And...

 

...since it IS there, why can't we get an arc that explores the issue, and lets people who want to beat up on the group that bought the billboard if they want to?*:-)

 

*Hmmmm...sounds like an idea for an AE story.

[El D]

As other folks in this thread have replied, those billboards are - in-universe - a direct response to the Rikti War of 2002 and have been in the game since it launched nearly 20 years ago. They're also very much in-line with Red Scare propaganda from after WWII and perhaps even moreso align with the general uber-patriotic response America had post-9/11 (because keep in-mind, CoH was released only 3 years after that happened). They are really tame compared to some real-world propaganda, certainly, but I do absolutely get how they'd make folks uncomfortable - and also, even sidestepping both those things, they're just really dated given the progression of the game's overall storyline. The Rikti War itself happened over 20 years ago and the Vanguard arcs focused on resolving the lingering faction conflicts were 15 years ago when Issue 10 went live.

 

If Homecoming were to do a follow-up, where the Rikti Traditionalists finally managed to achieve peace and the Restructurists are defeated (but not in a way that denies them responsibility for Rikti Invasion events, because removing a zone event won't ever happen) I could easily see replacing them with something else. Vanguard recruiting posters maybe, or something involving the fallout of the Praetorian War which is, itself, nearly 10 years gone by now. Hell, HC could have a 'Design a billboard' contest like the Live devs did. Have the players make offerings to update some of the old billboards. I still laugh whenever I fly past the 'It's a Clanket!' one.

Edited April 27, 2023 by El D

[cranebump]

9 hours ago, SarahTheM1 said:

My only problem then is that it begs further questions like whether the city would allow billboards of that nature to be put up in the first place.

Good question, actually. But, having seen billboards with REALLY blatant messages on them propped up in certain places, I am thinking they'd be protected by the first amendment, if the entity buying the space is a private citizen or group. Which makes it seem like Vanguard really wouldn't be engaging in this sort of advertising (But would someone like Malta do so? Or maybe the Council, who ALWAYS seems to have tons of recruits?).

[cranebump]

5 minutes ago, El D said:

The Rikti War itself happened over 20 years ago and the Vanguard arcs focused on resolving the lingering faction conflicts were 15 years ago when Issue 10 went live.

True. But the game itself is just stuck at that point in time. Even if additional stories eventually resolved the issue, if it begins in the same era, then those particular conditions represent the era's zeitgeist. You'd have to move the start point ahead to where the threat is lessened, or non-existent (even though we know there are people who are going to jump at phantoms anyway, regardless).

 

And you're right - from a propaganda perspective, it's pretty tame, compared to real-life historical examples.

[Chaos Ex Machina]

On 4/26/2023 at 2:18 AM, Scarlet Shocker said:

my understanding was that the game launched with the Rikti invasion with a mothership over Atlas and all kinds of exciting stuff

 

can this be recreated?

[El D]

13 hours ago, cranebump said:

True. But the game itself is just stuck at that point in time. Even if additional stories eventually resolved the issue, if it begins in the same era, then those particular conditions represent the era's zeitgeist. You'd have to move the start point ahead to where the threat is lessened, or non-existent (even though we know there are people who are going to jump at phantoms anyway, regardless).

 

And you're right - from a propaganda perspective, it's pretty tame, compared to real-life historical examples.

 

I'm not so sure about it being stuck in time. The Atlas Park revamp, destruction of Galaxy City, phasing out of the original FBSA contacts for the new starting zone experience, Dark Astoria's incarnate revamp, and the Signature Story Arcs... CoH was evolving the overall timeline pretty strongly in the final pre-sundown Issues. If the phasing tech had been expanded further, I could easily see a 'If you've done X arc, certain zone details will change' thing like how some Praetorian NPCs were added to Brickstown if you'd done the story arcs following the Praetorian War. Granted, it probably would have taken a number of more issues before the Live devs even considered revamping the Rikti War Zone, though it would make for fantastic framework with the Rikti teaming up with Primal Earth's heroes to fight the Battalion (which, if I'm not mistaken, was in the cards from the Dev Lore AMAs - not that Homecoming is beholden to any of that).

 

12 hours ago, Chaos Ex Machina said:

 

can this be recreated?

 

Probably, though it'd require some dev participation. The Mothership is a spawnable entity AFAIK though I think the invasion version might have just been a skybox.