Reduce the activation time of Storm Cell

[Wravis]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Same can be said of pretty much every other T9 listed in the scenario @DrunkFlux posits.

Fire blast - Nope, you're wrong.

Ice blast

Water Blast - Nope, you're wrong.

Beam Rifle - Nope, you're wrong.

The new Assault Rifle

Energy Blast - Nope, you're wrong.

Archery - Nope, you're wrong.

Dark Blast - Nope, you're wrong.

Dual Pistols - Nope, you're wrong.

Sonic Blast - Nope, you're wrong.

[Rudra]

13 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

 

I stand by that the damage is still done fully when the animation time ends, where-as category 5 and storm cell need far far more tiem than you'd think due to the mechanics by nature.  Every single group I played so far nothing was alive long enough for storm cell or category 5 to matter.  Whereas I never had that problem on any other set in the game, the closest being seismic even then I found ways around it.

Correct. With Inferno, it deals all its damage 2.643 seconds into its animation.

(Edit: Actually, it takes Inferno 10 seconds to do its full damage. 1.833 seconds for initial burst + 8.1 seconds of DoT for 9.933 seconds of time rounded off to 10 seconds.)

 

However, you claimed:

 

15 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

Actually i'm not arguing about "Uber maximum damage at all times" but actually the power getting to apply and be a factor 'at all',

And you can obviously fit Category 5 in just as easily, more easily in many cases, to have any effect in the fight.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Rudra

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Wravis said:

Fire blast - Nope, you're wrong.

Ice blast

Water Blast - Nope, you're wrong.

Beam Rifle - Nope, you're wrong.

The new Assault Rifle

Energy Blast - Nope, you're wrong.

Archery - Nope, you're wrong.

Dark Blast - Nope, you're wrong.

Dual Pistols - Nope, you're wrong.

Sonic Blast - Nope, you're wrong.

Okay, and where is your proof? I provided mine.

[Wravis]

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Okay, and where is your proof? I provided mine.

  

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Water Blast:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.water_blast.geyser&at=blaster

Geyser has a cast time of 2.93 seconds as compared to Category 5's 2.5 seconds.

Geyser applies its damage 1.833 seconds into its animation as compared to Category 5's 0.833 seconds.

Geyser has an accuracy of 1.4 as compared to Category 5's 2.0.

 

 

The damage ALL applies at 1.833 seconds

  

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 

Sonic Attack:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.sonic_attack.dreadful_wail&at=blaster

Dreadful Wail has a cast time of 1.97 seconds as compared to Category 5's 2.5 seconds.

Dreadful Wail applies its damage 0.567 seconds into its animation as compared to Category 5's 0.833 seconds.

Dreadful Wail has an accuracy of 1.4 as compared to Category 5's 2.0.

This is a power I will accept as outperforming Category 5.

 

The damage ALL applies at 0.567 seconds

  

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Radiation Blast:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.radiation_blast.atomic_blast&at=blaster

Atomic Blast has a cast time of 2.93 seconds to Category 5's 2.5 seconds.

Atomic Blast applies its damage 2.067 seconds into its animation to Category 5's 0.833 seconds.

Atomic Blast has an accuracy of 1.4 to Category 5's 2.0.

 

 

The damage ALL applies at 2.067 seconds

  

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Psychic Blast:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.psychic_blast.psychic_wail&at=blaster

Psychic Wail has a cast time of 1.97 seconds to Category 5's 2.5 seconds.

Psychic Wail applies its damage 0.567 seconds into tis animation to Category 5's 0.833 seconds.

Psychic Wail has an accuracy of 1.5 to Category 5's 2.0.

 

 

The damage ALL applies at 0.567 seconds.

  

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Energy Blast:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.energy_blast.nova&at=blaster

Nova has a cast time of 3.0 seconds to Category 5's 2.5 seconds.

Nova applies its damage 1.833 seconds into its animation to Category 5's 0.833 seconds.

Nova has an accuracy of 1.4 to Category 5's 2.0.

 

The damage ALL applies at 1.833 seconds

  

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Electrical Blast:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.electrical_blast.thunderous_blast&at=blaster

Thunderous Blast has a cast time of 2.93 seconds to Category 5's 2.5 seconds.

Thunderous Balst applies its damage 2.367 seconds into its animation to Category 5's 0.833 seconds.

Thunderous Blast has an accuracy of 1.4 to Category 5's 2.0.

 

The damage ALL applies at 2.367 seconds.

  

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Dark Blast:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.dark_blast.blackstar&at=blaster

Blackstar has a cast time of 3.0 seconds to Category 5's 2.5 seconds.

Blackstar applies its damage 1.833 seconds into its animation to Category 5's 0.833 seconds.

Blackstar has an accuracy of 1.4 to Category 5's 2.0.

 

The damage ALL applies at 1.833 seconds

  

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Beam Rifle:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=blaster_ranged.beam_rifle.overcharge&at=blaster

Overcharge has a cast time of 2.9 seconds to Category 5's 2.5 seconds.

Overcharge applies its damage 1.833 seconds into its animation to Category 5's 0.833 seconds.

Overcharge has an accuracy of 1.4 to Category 5's 2.0.

 

 

The damage all applies at 1.833 second.

Because they are not DoTs.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Wravis

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, Wravis said:

  

The damage ALL applies at 1.833 seconds

  

The damage ALL applies at 0.567 seconds

  

The damage ALL applies at 2.067 seconds

  

The damage ALL applies at 0.567 seconds.

  

The damage ALL applies at 1.833 seconds

  

The damage ALL applies at 2.367 seconds.

  

The damage ALL applies at 1.833 seconds

  

The damage all applies at 1.833 second.

Because they are not DoTs.

So I am correct and the claim that Category 5 cannot affect the fight is bullshit and the complaint actually is that Category 5 does its damage over time instead of one lump sum or over a very short period of time. So drop the garbage about Category 5 not being able to affect the fight and be honest with what you want. An upfront damage attack that you can use for uber maximum damage at all times!!!! so you can keep going with the current meta instead of finding a way to make it work with the current meta.

[Wravis]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

So I am correct and the claim that Category 5 cannot affect the fight is bullshit and the complaint actually is that Category 5 does its damage over time instead of one lump sum or over a very short period of time. So drop the garbage about Category 5 not being able to affect the fight and be honest with what you want. An upfront damage attack that you can use for uber maximum damage at all times!!!! so you can keep going with the current meta instead of finding a way to make it work with the current meta.

Except I'm fine with Archery. And Ice Blast. Because they don't take forever to do anything. You're wrong. Sorry buddy.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Wravis said:

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So I am correct and the claim that Category 5 cannot affect the fight is bullshit and the complaint actually is that Category 5 does its damage over time instead of one lump sum or over a very short period of time.

Except I'm fine with Archery. And Ice Blast. Because they don't take forever to do anything. You're wrong. Sorry buddy.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Rudra

[Wravis]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Big bold underlined stuff.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So I am correct and the claim that Category 5 cannot affect the fight is bullshit

Sorry you're having a hard time understanding what you're wrong about.

No one says it can't affect the fight. It just does a very bad job compared to every other set.

[DrunkFlux]

Wravis 100% gets it.  Rudra its very very clear you haven't really used storm blast or never really pay attention to what really happens.

[Rudra]

49 minutes ago, Wravis said:

No one says it can't affect the fight. It just does a very bad job compared to every other set.

 

9 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

Everything in CoH is activation time economy, and Storm blasts biggest problem so far is just that, so it's actually, while a fun set numbers wise, they rarely are relevant in teamplay. 

Activation time and burst is 'everything' for AoE power in the current meta of the game.

 

3 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

 

Actually i'm not arguing about "Uber maximum damage at all times" but actually the power getting to apply and be a factor 'at all', theres a huge difference.

There you go, @Wravis. Two times it was said. And I highlighted the part where @DrunkFlux is commenting that the power doesn't factor at all.

 

@DrunkFlux's comments were that Storm Cell and then Category 5 are rarely relevant. Their activation time and burst is lacking. Except for Category 5 where I did the comparisons. Category 5 applies its damage faster than eight of the other Blaster primaries' T9s. (Edit: It may not apply its total damage faster, but it does apply damage faster. I guess sooner is the better word.) So its activation time is not an issue. It applies its damage before even the powers @DrunkFlux says (s)he prefers for doing damage soon. I'm not arguing full damage here. I'm arguing against the garbage that the power has no effect on a battle because the mobs die before it can do anything, when it actually affects the targets before eight other T9s. (Edit again: It even has a shorter full cast time than multiple other T9s.)

 

You two can change the goal posts all you want. Can Category 5 affect the fight before things all die off? Yes. Is it a factor 'at all' in a fight? Yes. So drop the garbage and just admit what you want. You want the damage squeezed into a smaller time frame because you can't get full damage to apply as quickly as you want. Not this garbage that it can't affect the fight at all because its activation time is too long.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Rudra
Edited for punctuation.

[Wravis]

58 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 

 

There you go, @Wravis. Two times it was said. And I highlighted the part where @DrunkFlux is commenting that the power doesn't factor at all.

 

@DrunkFlux's comments were that Storm Cell and then Category 5 are rarely relevant. Their activation time and burst is lacking. Except for Category 5 where I did the comparisons. Category 5 applies its damage faster than eight of the other Blaster primaries' T9s. (Edit: It may not apply its total damage faster, but it does apply damage faster. I guess sooner is the better word.) So its activation time is not an issue. It applies its damage before even the powers @DrunkFlux says (s)he prefers for doing damage soon. I'm not arguing full damage here. I'm arguing against the garbage that the power has no effect on a battle because the mobs die before it can do anything, when it actually affects the targets before eight other T9s. (Edit again: It even has a shorter full cast time than multiple other T9s.)

 

You two can change the goal posts all you want. Can Category 5 affect the fight before things all die off? Yes. Is it a factor 'at all' in a fight? Yes. So drop the garbage and just admit what you want. You want the damage squeezed into a smaller time frame because you can't get full damage to apply as quickly as you want. Not this garbage that it can't affect the fight at all because its activation time is too long.

  Let's start by pointing out that you acknowledge he did not say "never".

58 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 

@DrunkFlux's comments were that Storm Cell and then Category 5 are rarely relevant.

  
Then point out that you clipped the part of his post where he acknowledged that the powers can be useful in certain situations.

10 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

 I'd argue storm blast is a phenomenal solo set that doesn't work well in high damage teams, as by itself it can do a lot of AoE once everything gets moving, but the problem is everything HAS to get moving and rev up.  The revup factor is very very bad for doing burst AoE which is more important in teams as you just don't get to do anything otherwise.

Activation time and burst is 'everything' for AoE power in the current meta of the game.  Thats why fire, ice and water blast are so powerful, they need no setup time to inflict the maximum damage, or can prep 'before' engaging.

Then ignored the quotes meant to indicate hyperbole.

4 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

 

Actually i'm not arguing about "Uber maximum damage at all times" but actually the power getting to apply and be a factor 'at all',

To suit your narrative.

Then we can discuss how you refuse to believe that there can be people who play this game who want their characters to be effective in teams, but aren't meta-gaming, min/maxing, Council-blitzers.

And how your argument that damage STARTS faster on Cat 5 is ridiculous and means absolutely nothing. The activation time isn't the issue. It's the ramp up time. By the time Cat 5 has ramped up to do any meaningful damage, every other power set is finished with the same group, and probably half way done with the next one.


And then we can acknowledge that this thread isn't even about Category 5, it's about Storm Cell. You shifted the goalpost to T9s.

[Rudra]

25 minutes ago, Wravis said:

  Let's start by pointing out that you acknowledge he did not say "never".

  
Then point out that you clipped the part of his post where he acknowledged that the powers can be useful in certain situations.

Then ignored the quotes meant to indicate hyperbole.

To suit your narrative.

Then we can discuss how you refuse to believe that there can be people who play this game who want their characters to be effective in teams, but aren't meta-gaming, min/maxing, Council-blitzers.

And how your argument that damage STARTS faster on Cat 5 is ridiculous and means absolutely nothing. The activation time isn't the issue. It's the ramp up time. By the time Cat 5 has ramped up to do any meaningful damage, every other power set is finished with the same group, and probably half way done with the next one.


And then we can acknowledge that this thread isn't even about Category 5, it's about Storm Cell. You shifted the goalpost to T9s.

Let's start with your "The activation time isn't the issue bit".

 

10 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

Activation time and burst is 'everything' for AoE power in the current meta of the game.

 

Edit: And there is still the 'but actually the power getting to apply and be a factor 'at all'' bit too.

 

Now that that argument is dead. Let's address me being the one that shifted the goal posts to Category 5.

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

The discussion was about Storm Cell. Not about Cat 5. If you want to talk about Cat 5 too?

 

 

You want to try again? Or maybe you would rather go back and actually read the thread.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Rudra

[DrunkFlux]

13 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 

 

There you go, @Wravis. Two times it was said. And I highlighted the part where @DrunkFlux is commenting that the power doesn't factor at all.

 

@DrunkFlux's comments were that Storm Cell and then Category 5 are rarely relevant. Their activation time and burst is lacking. Except for Category 5 where I did the comparisons. Category 5 applies its damage faster than eight of the other Blaster primaries' T9s.

I'm losing brain cells reading this, are you kidding me?  Are you being exceedingly literal or something?  Even then your doing a horrible job at it because now your logic isnt even there, I don't know how you seriously think category 5 is applying its damage faster, its NOT.
 

A power that does 500 damage, or maybe even 1000 damage after buffed up, at its activation time or halfway through often its all up front.  It doesn't need thirty seconds to apply that.

 

Ok lets talk nuke chain.  And what often happens, when someone is serious about destroying enemies.  We'll assume five seconds and ONLY five second given, with a tiny bit of leeway, final power can go past, but damage has to be inflicted in that.  BU+Aim allowed BEFORE fighting.  We'll assume we are both giving our best, who will beat who.

 

We'll assume your damage is enhanced to 100% and your using gaussian and on a blaster, with Build up from Energy manip as thats standard baseline.  Storms intensify has a 31.25% damage buff and we slot gaussian in there for another 40% damage buff for half the duration of the main buffs.  In damage categorization your looking at a damage multiplier of 3.7125 in total of the baseline damage.

Enhanced the damage 'stated' by category five is 316, enhanced it'll be around 632, but if we divide that by 30 on average your only looking at TWENTY EFFECTIVE DAMAGE PER SECOND.  Now, you could buff that up but the AIM power is largely weak at about 31.25% and the BU proc (which is 40% and so we have to use a real build up(100%) which gives us a damage boost of 171.25% on top of enhanced damage (assuming 100% of course for simplicity) for a total damage multiplier of 3.7125.  the max theoretical is 1, 173.15 BUT we have another problem.  Thats only the DoT and we have to divide that down sharply by 30 seconds to average, only 58 damage/second. If they only last a few seconds say, 5 seconds your only getting off 290.94 damage inflicted, DPS...well...stated...:/.  Onto the other feature.

You HAVE to use the other powers to proc the lightning blast, and odds are very very good that you'll get maaybe 1-2 attacks off after cat 5 is active, maybe 3 at the most, for about 68*3 BUT BUT BUT we hae to REMOVE 1 of those 3 so it'll only be 68*2.  And that does NOT benefit from enhancement or buffs.  So its unchanged.  I'll let you add chain lightning for 283(76.45*3.7125) to up to 16, BUT the proc from lightning storm only hits up to 5.  And now we are not even looking at category five but the followups in the nuke chain.  Odds are yuou may be doing a lot of damage per second in the AoE, BUT THIS IS BECAUSE YOUR FOLLOWING UP WITH OTHER ATTACKS LIKE ANYONE WOULD WITH ANY POWERSET.
 

So we have a laughable damage situation here.  290.94 + 283 = 573.94, and one power left.

This is just cat 5 but what about what the original OP talked about? Well at least this one gets damage buffs but theres a problem, pseudopets lose the damage boost after a short period, so the BU combo will only last 10 seconds, and halfway through that your losing the gaussian proc.  But you have time, compared to me as i'll only get 2 attacks, but 2 is all I need and I'll have already out-done you.



At most on one enemy it will only hit 75.07*3.7125 = 278.7 'once'.  If your lucky.  Or it'll dilute to 139.36 on 2 or even less down to  69.68 damage to 4 targets.  Thats if you get lucky, you have to remember that your activating storm cell while the BU is active so now your losing a LOT of activation time of that 5 second buff so you'll lose .4 in that calculation.  So we cannot even factor Storm cell, its not worthwhile or even worthy of a nuke chain *facepalms, smacks head*.  You COULD follow up but it's not going to do anything to add.

 

  So your going to have to use jet stream to finish the chain for optimal results.  In this case, 50.05*3.7125 = 185.81 vs 10 targets.

 

573.94 + 185.81 = 759.75 over 3 attacks in the chain.  If your luck you could add 69.68 but thats 4 targets, see below for 

Total damage practical in 5 seconds: 759.75 / 151.95  Also with 3 powers(this'll become relevant see below)

But your effectively getting, either way, all your damage from your other attacks, your using them to proc the extras that, 

31.28+93.84+(11*10.67) = 242.49 * 3.7125 = 900.24 so ok i'm doing less BUUUUUT I do about half that instantly AAAND the remaining half is done over only FIVE seconds and up to SIXTEEN TARGETS.  AND I CAN ALWAYS FOLLOWUP WITH STEAM SPRAY AND STILL PROBABLY HAVE THE BU PROC.  449.21 damage done on followup on up to 10 targets.  And the followup is applying damage during that 5 seconds, so my AoE BURST is going to be over that five seconds to 10 targets 1,349.45 damage with another 6 experiencing 900.24 damage. 

 

900/5 = 180 damage done per second from just geysar.  I've beaten you with just 'one' power.  If I go with both stacked...
1349..45/5 = 269.89 DPS to group.  I didn't just beat you, I 'completely' floored you.  HARD.

A fire blaster will leave even me in the dust in 3 seconds:  Aim is more powerful by about twice the raw damage buff, 62.5  I add the damage up with gaus to 102.5+BU100 + Enhanced 100+base for total multiplier of 4.025!  Base INFERNO damage is 410.94 at 50!  I don't even have a chance:  410.94*4.025 = 1654.0335!  Divide by 3...know I won't even do that here.

 

Your, not even CLOSE.

Other Tier 9s do 250 base and same aim power, so 250.25*4.025 = 1007.  Still beating both of us with 3 seconds, and they still have a normal AoE to throw in there, many do around 56 damage, and thats the lowest so lets try that, but many do more; 56.21 * 4.025 =226

1226 / 5 = 245.2/second.  Still flooring you.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, DrunkFlux said:

I'm losing brain cells reading this, are you kidding me?  Are you being exceedingly literal or something?  Even then your doing a horrible job at it because now your logic isnt even there, I don't know how you seriously think category 5 is applying its damage faster, its NOT.
 

A power that does 500 damage, or maybe even 1000 damage after buffed up, at its activation time or halfway through often its all up front.  It doesn't need thirty seconds to apply that.

 

Ok lets talk nuke chain.  And what often happens, when someone is serious about destroying enemies.  We'll assume five seconds and ONLY five second given, with a tiny bit of leeway, final power can go past, but damage has to be inflicted in that.  BU+Aim allowed BEFORE fighting.  We'll assume we are both giving our best, who will beat who.

 

We'll assume your damage is enhanced to 100% and your using gaussian and on a blaster, with Build up from Energy manip as thats standard baseline.  Storms intensify has a 31.25% damage buff and we slot gaussian in there for another 40% damage buff for half the duration of the main buffs.  In damage categorization your looking at a damage multiplier of 3.7125 in total of the baseline damage.

Enhanced the damage 'stated' by category five is 316, enhanced it'll be around 632, but if we divide that by 30 on average your only looking at TWENTY EFFECTIVE DAMAGE PER SECOND.  Now, you could buff that up but the AIM power is largely weak at about 31.25% and the BU proc (which is 40% and so we have to use a real build up(100%) which gives us a damage boost of 171.25% on top of enhanced damage (assuming 100% of course for simplicity) for a total damage multiplier of 3.7125.  the max theoretical is 1, 173.15 BUT we have another problem.  Thats only the DoT and we have to divide that down sharply by 30 seconds to average, only 58 damage/second. If they only last a few seconds say, 5 seconds your only getting off 290.94 damage inflicted, DPS...well...stated...:/.  Onto the other feature.

You HAVE to use the other powers to proc the lightning blast, and odds are very very good that you'll get maaybe 1-2 attacks off after cat 5 is active, maybe 3 at the most, for about 68*3 BUT BUT BUT we hae to REMOVE 1 of those 3 so it'll only be 68*2.  And that does NOT benefit from enhancement or buffs.  So its unchanged.  I'll let you add chain lightning for 283(76.45*3.7125) to up to 16, BUT the proc from lightning storm only hits up to 5.  And now we are not even looking at category five but the followups in the nuke chain.  Odds are yuou may be doing a lot of damage per second in the AoE, BUT THIS IS BECAUSE YOUR FOLLOWING UP WITH OTHER ATTACKS LIKE ANYONE WOULD WITH ANY POWERSET.
 

So we have a laughable damage situation here.  290.94 + 283 = 573.94, and one power left.

This is just cat 5 but what about what the original OP talked about? Well at least this one gets damage buffs but theres a problem, pseudopets lose the damage boost after a short period, so the BU combo will only last 10 seconds, and halfway through that your losing the gaussian proc.  But you have time, compared to me as i'll only get 2 attacks, but 2 is all I need and I'll have already out-done you.



At most on one enemy it will only hit 75.07*3.7125 = 278.7 'once'.  If your lucky.  Or it'll dilute to 139.36 on 2 or even less down to  69.68 damage to 4 targets.  Thats if you get lucky, you have to remember that your activating storm cell while the BU is active so now your losing a LOT of activation time of that 5 second buff so you'll lose .4 in that calculation.  So we cannot even factor Storm cell, its not worthwhile or even worthy of a nuke chain *facepalms, smacks head*.  You COULD follow up but it's not going to do anything to add.

 

  So your going to have to use jet stream to finish the chain for optimal results.  In this case, 50.05*3.7125 = 185.81 vs 10 targets.

 

573.94 + 185.81 = 759.75 over 3 attacks in the chain.  If your luck you could add 69.68 but thats 4 targets, see below for 

Total damage practical in 5 seconds: 759.75 / 151.95  Also with 3 powers(this'll become relevant see below)

But your effectively getting, either way, all your damage from your other attacks, your using them to proc the extras that, 

31.28+93.84+(11*10.67) = 242.49 * 3.7125 = 900.24 so ok i'm doing less BUUUUUT I do about half that instantly AAAND the remaining half is done over only FIVE seconds and up to SIXTEEN TARGETS.  AND I CAN ALWAYS FOLLOWUP WITH STEAM SPRAY AND STILL PROBABLY HAVE THE BU PROC.  449.21 damage done on followup on up to 10 targets.  And the followup is applying damage during that 5 seconds, so my AoE BURST is going to be over that five seconds to 10 targets 1,349.45 damage with another 6 experiencing 900.24 damage. 

 

900/5 = 180 damage done per second from just geysar.  I've beaten you with just 'one' power.  If I go with both stacked...
1349..45/5 = 269.89 DPS to group.  I didn't just beat you, I 'completely' floored you.  HARD.

A fire blaster will leave even me in the dust in 3 seconds:  Aim is more powerful by about twice the raw damage buff, 62.5  I add the damage up with gaus to 102.5+BU100 + Enhanced 100+base for total multiplier of 4.025!  Base INFERNO damage is 410.94 at 50!  I don't even have a chance:  410.94*4.025 = 1654.0335!  Divide by 3...know I won't even do that here.

 

Your, not even CLOSE.

Other Tier 9s do 250 base and same aim power, so 250.25*4.025 = 1007.  Still beating both of us with 3 seconds, and they still have a normal AoE to throw in there, many do around 56 damage, and thats the lowest so lets try that, but many do more; 56.21 * 4.025 =226

1226 / 5 = 245.2/second.  Still flooring you.

I never once addressed damage. Damage was never part of my argument. (Edit: When that damage first starts being applied, so its ability to affect the fight at all, is what I am arguing.) My argument is your claim that Storm Cell, and then Category 5, do not affect the fight is wrong. And they obviously do. I'm asking you to just be honest about what you want. The damage to be condensed into a very short time frame. Not becuase the activation time is too long, but because you want more of the damage to apply in the more frequent short fights teams have.

 

Edit: Not that the powers are bad, but because they don't fit your preferred play style for use on high damage teams.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Rudra

[DrunkFlux]

In short, sorry buddy, even the math in THEORY leaves you in the dust on this and thats just THEORY TALK, practicality often that doesn't even happen at times.  Enemies get scattered or someone else well, nukes at the same time ect.  Bottom line though, your AoE nuke power is pathetic.  I hate running numbers like I did above but your litterally not even throwing the theory book at us very well here.  I took even lower end AoE nuke chains and over 5 seconds found your potential damage to be laughable.

 

Now, Solo is a different matter, AoE burst isn't as valuable, I'm focused however on what happens during team play.  And thats what the complaint about storm blast is; it's terrible at team play once you break down the problems of Storm Cell and Category 5.

[DrunkFlux]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

I never once addressed damage. Damage was never part of my argument. My argument is your claim that Storm Cell, and then Category 5, do not affect the fight. And they obviously do.

 

Yes but no where near enough to matter which is the point, in practicality its just outright underperforming.  Even the math I just made painstakingly shows that, and again, thats theory talk where-as me and wravis have been telling you that the set isn't even pulling anything off.  In fact I even made a mistake here, as category 5 needs a second to start acting.  And doesn't even get its full dps for five seconds, ooops :D.  So I was generous and STILL the nuke chain for storm blast loses badly.

[Bionic_Flea]

I agree that Storm blast, as a whole, takes too long to take down mobs.

 

With most of the other blast sets if you hit aim/build up or equivalent and then your T9, then the minions are gone, possibly the Lts. too, leaving just the harder targets to finish off.  I am talking about solo and at 50+ with a completed build.  In a team of well-made characters by the time I cast Storm Cell most of the group is dead.  If I don't follow up with another blast Storm Cell is just a debuff and adds no damage.  If I follow up with Cat5 a few bosses will take Damage over Time in the single digits and I'll need to fire several more attacks to kill them off.

 

In other words, it takes me about twice as long solo to clear a group as it does with other blast sets.  However, I find that Storm blast seems safer than some others as the combination of -tohit, knocks, and fear keeps critters off my back.

 

Does the set "work" as it is?  Sure, it can get the job done and it's pretty to look at.  But it seems like it takes too long to build up.  Without Storm Cell, the other powers don't seem to do enough damage and you lose a lot of the mitigation.  I think the set needs a little bit more.  Maybe faster activation; maybe a bit of delayed damage from Storm Cell independent of the Lightning triggered by other attacks; maybe make Intensify boost damage a little more or last a little longer.

 

At least, that's my opinion after having played a Storm/Storm Corrupter to 50+3 along with playing every other blast set to 50+3 in one AT or another and usually several times over.

[DrunkFlux]

In fact corrected damage your doing, oh god this is even more laughable:  10.

 

Ten damage.

 

To be exact, 2.21 damage/second for the first five seconds.  So at most, 18.17 damage -.-.

So I have to remove......from the original math....omg....200 damage over the five seconds as 58 - 18 = 40 so I have to cut you damage over the 5 by 200.

559/5 = 112 rounded.  *facepalms at self*  I'm...not even going to run exact numbers here.  Now storm looks like toothpicks.

 

Edit: Actually more math but, its still pathetic:  so its only 8.22 buffed max per second so I have to cut 50 off of that DPS.  I have to remove 250 now(50 damage more lost on recalculation).

So now 509/5 = 102 damage rounded in nuke chain per second.

Edited May 4, 2023 by DrunkFlux

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, DrunkFlux said:

 

Yes but no where near enough to matter which is the point, in practicality its just outright underperforming.  Even the math I just made painstakingly shows that, and again, thats theory talk where-as me and wravis have been telling you that the set isn't even pulling anything off.  In fact I even made a mistake here, as category 5 needs a second to start acting.  And doesn't even get its full dps for five seconds, ooops :D.  So I was generous and STILL the nuke chain for storm blast loses badly.

If the set underperforms, then make a request based off that. Not off the argument that the activation time is too long (since it has a faster activation time than most other Blaster primary powers of the same tier) or that it doesn't affect the fight (since it applies its damage sooner than most other T9s). It was your claim that the activation time was too long that got this entire argument going. I'm not arguing damage. I'm not even arguing effectiveness. I'm just arguing that if other T9s can and do affect the current fight any team is in regardless of what they are fighting, then so does Category 5. Your problem with the powers is the damage. Not the activation time.

[DrunkFlux]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

If the set underperforms, then make a request based off that. Not off the argument that the activation time is too long (since it has a faster activation time than most other Blaster primary powers of the same tier) or that it doesn't affect the fight (since it applies its damage sooner than most other T9s). It was your claim that the activation time was too long that got this entire argument going. I'm not arguing damage. I'm not even arguing effectiveness. I'm just arguing that if other T9s can and do affect the current fight any team is in regardless of what they are fighting, then so does Category 5. Your problem with the powers is the damage. Not the activation time.

 

Well actually i'm just busting your previous "Category 5 applies its damage faster than eight of the other Blaster primaries' T9s."

 

I'm factoring in nuke chaining to destroy it once and for all.  Read the post above and the one after.  Storm blast is left in the dust and even being lapped on the racing track by average powersets.

[Bionic_Flea]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Your problem with the powers is the damage. Not the activation time.

 

The problem is time to clear.  That can be solved by more damage, faster activation, less DoT and more up front damage, or a combination of those.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, DrunkFlux said:

 

Well actually i'm just busting your previous "Category 5 applies its damage faster than eight of the other Blaster primaries' T9s."

 

I'm factoring in nuke chaining to destroy it once and for all.  Read the post above and the one after.  Storm blast is left in the dust and even being lapped on the racing track by average powersets.

Then go back and read the part where I acknowledged the proper word was "sooner" instead.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

The problem is time to clear.  That can be solved by more damage, faster activation, less DoT and more up front damage, or a combination of those.

What they actually need, at least for Category 5 per this discussion, is to condense the window in which the power does its damage. What they would be willing to settle for with Storm Cell is if it moved faster so it was useful in more fights than the one they just finished.

 

Edit: Well, "need" is strictly a point of view. "Want" is probably the better word here.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Rudra

[DrunkFlux]

Just now, Rudra said:

What they actually need, at least for Category 5 per this discussion, is to condense the window in which the power does its damage. What they would be willing to settle for with Storm Cell is if it moved faster so it was useful in more fights than the one they just finished.

 Thats what I am talking about and have been trying to tell you in "Making it matter":  the Damage over time is far to long.

Enemies die before it gets to most of its damage.

[Rudra]

Just now, DrunkFlux said:

 Thats what I am talking about and have been trying to tell you in "Making it matter":  the Damage over time is far to long.

Enemies die before it gets to most of its damage.

Which was the later argument brought up. And not part of what I was arguing. As I said, multiple times already, my whole argument is your claim that the activation time is too long and the powers do not factor in fights at all on high damage teams is wrong. Again, like I already said, I was not arguing damage or power effectiveness. I just wanted the garbage claim that, at least in the case of Category 5 which you brought up, it affects any fight any team may find themselves in as fast (or faster in many cases) as other Blaster primary T9s. Nothing in any of my posts claimed Category 5 was the most powerful, most damaging, most effective attack. Just that it has a shorter cast time than some other powers, applies its damage sooner than most other powers, so can and does affect a fight it is used in. My other points were that not every power needs to be the best or particularly useful in the very quick fights high damage teams find themselves in as they steamroll maps. That a power can be reserved for the EBs, the AVs, the monsters, the giant monsters, and other times when the team bogs down.