RadKnight Rad/Rad Tank build help?

[StoneKarma]

Quick backstory: RadKnight was one of the first toons I made on HC. You can always use a Tank, am I right? So, he's based on ideas from three years ago. I'd like to refresh him. The current version (also posted below) does well enough as a traditional Tank. Not the best damage. Usually able to stand there and Taunt. I'd like the new version to be a *little* bit more DMG. 

 

I took @Infinitum build and some others here on the forum.

Better recharge than some builds (74% w/o Hasten 144% w/Hasten; Hasten 133 sec RECH). A decent ranged attack (Ball Lightning), Taunt and Fly (for concept reasons).

90% Resists except NEG (84%) and Cold (59%).

 

Melee DEF is 40%, I tried a few things to try to get it higher, but usually cost me DMG in some way. Is it worth it? 
 

Meltdown is +RES, but with everything at or near the cap, does this power make any sense?

 

Irradiated Ground. Does this slotting work? Do Procs not work at all, or they don't work as well? Same with Beta Decay?

 

Also, any suggestions on the Incarnates? I used the ones I have, current version doesn't have any +END issues. I am happy to switch to any that might be a better idea? 

 

Old Version:

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Proposed NEW RadKnight

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Thanks to everyone in advance for their comments and suggestions, I appreciate it.

[Warboss]

Melee Def of 40%, not bad try it and see what you think. 45%+ is better, but might not be worth chasing. Since you have no DDR, the Def will wash away pretty quickly and for sure in long encounters. I don't recall which, but one of the incarnate Hybrids (I think), provides some DDR and it may be worth getting that power and trying it in your build.

 

Meltdown, yes moar damage is moar better (and capped Resists won't hurt). Pop it whenever it's up. Plus it gives you the great animation of agitated radiation "bees" circling around you and additional Recovery.

 

IG, yes, procs still work (one is probably good, depending on what you want to achieve others would be fine). See ZemX's comment in the Rad Armor thread.

 

Incarnates:

 Alpha: I like Musculature if you've got Endurance and Resists under control. You might look at Agility (it will give a few additional %'s to Def).

 

Lore: Banish Pantheon, Carnies, or Cimerorans seem popular with Tanks (mine included).

 

Interface: I like the HP debuff from Degenerative, although Reactive is pretty good too.

 

Judgement: I tend to go with Ion on most of my characters, the others are fine, but I'd say only use Vorpal and Cryonic on specific builds for specific reasons.

 

Destiny: I'd say this depends on what you need in a team and/or solo situation. Barrier is kind of the "go to" for the defensive buffing it provides, plus you can rez up to two of the teammates (if needed). I also use Ageless.

 

Hybrid: Assault, Melee and Support, I've used all of these. Just depends on what you're looking to do for your Tank or your team. 

 

 

 

[PLVRIZR]

1 hour ago, Warboss said:

I don't recall which, but one of the incarnate Hybrids (I think), provides some DDR and it may be worth getting that power and trying it in your build.

 

Hybrid, yes.  Ageless and the Radial side.  Great power for Res builds which have decent defenses with no DDR (like the discussion topic, Elec and Fire armors, as well).

 

...and the rest is great advice from WB, as always.

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, PLVRIZR said:

Hybrid, yes.  Ageless and the Radial side.  Great power for Res builds which have decent defenses with no DDR (like the discussion topic, Elec and Fire armors, as well).

 

That'd be Destiny.  For Hybrid you want probably Melee to be tougher or Assault to be... saltier?

[StoneKarma]

If I add Meltdown, what power should it replace? Fusion (Rad's BuildUp) maybe? 

Fusion: +ToHit 60%, +DMG 80%, RECH 37 secs, duration of 10 secs. Slots the Gaussian's % for BuildUp, fwiw.

Meltdown: +ToHit 0%, +DMG 33%, +RES mostly wasted, BIG +END boost, RECH 200s, duration 60 secs. And it slots RESIST sets, so I can use it to mule something and that frees up a slot to use somewhere. And any suggestions on where the free slot would go?

 

I could replace Hover which is just a LotG mule, then I'd get both DMG buffs and lose 7.5% RECH. Is that worth it? 

[PLVRIZR]

4 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

That'd be Destiny. 

Of course.

[Warboss]

5 hours ago, StoneKarma said:

If I add Meltdown, what power should it replace? Fusion (Rad's BuildUp) maybe? 

Fusion: +ToHit 60%, +DMG 80%, RECH 37 secs, duration of 10 secs. Slots the Gaussian's % for BuildUp, fwiw.

Meltdown: +ToHit 0%, +DMG 33%, +RES mostly wasted, BIG +END boost, RECH 200s, duration 60 secs. And it slots RESIST sets, so I can use it to mule something and that frees up a slot to use somewhere. And any suggestions on where the free slot would go?

 

I could replace Hover which is just a LotG mule, then I'd get both DMG buffs and lose 7.5% RECH. Is that worth it? 

 

I couldn't open the builds. Can you cut/paste the data block? I'm not a big fan of "Hover Tanking" but I've seen players that do it well. I'd go Combat Jumping/Super Jump for the utility it provides in combat, but each their own. I don't recall what Power Sets your running. What's your secondary?

[StoneKarma]

3 hours ago, Warboss said:

 

I couldn't open the builds. Can you cut/paste the data block? I'm not a big fan of "Hover Tanking" but I've seen players that do it well. I'd go Combat Jumping/Super Jump for the utility it provides in combat, but each their own. I don't recall what Power Sets your running. What's your secondary?

The latest version of Mids won't let me, but here's the file attached. 

RadArmor/Rad Melee

CJ/SJ or CJ/Fly is the same thing really? 

I don't Hover tank with it. Hover is just to mule a Luck of the Gambler 7.5% global +RECH. (Minor note: I think now you can have Hover and Fly up at the same time to give you inertia reduction, but not a big deal).

 

Also on the Incarnates,  Hybrid: Melee Radial Embodiment with just two mobs pushes Melee DEF to the soft cap (46%). (Hooray and thanks!)

 

So the current question remains, does anyone see a power to swap out for Meltdown? I think it comes down to is Meltdown+1 extra slot better than one Luck of the Gambler 7.5% +RECH?

Tanker RadKnight New (Radiation Armor - Radiation Melee).mbd

[Mythical Creature]

16 hours ago, StoneKarma said:

The latest version of Mids won't let me, but here's the file attached. 

RadArmor/Rad Melee

CJ/SJ or CJ/Fly is the same thing really? 

I don't Hover tank with it. Hover is just to mule a Luck of the Gambler 7.5% global +RECH. (Minor note: I think now you can have Hover and Fly up at the same time to give you inertia reduction, but not a big deal).

 

Also on the Incarnates,  Hybrid: Melee Radial Embodiment with just two mobs pushes Melee DEF to the soft cap (46%). (Hooray and thanks!)

 

So the current question remains, does anyone see a power to swap out for Meltdown? I think it comes down to is Meltdown+1 extra slot better than one Luck of the Gambler 7.5% +RECH

 

Hover/Fly and CJ/SJ are slightly different because Combat Jumping basically has no endurance cost and hover has like .2 endurance cost (similar to most shields in your armor set). If you got combat jumping you would be able to toggle it on without any concern about endurance consumption. However, Combat Jumping will not provide adequate control for hover tanking (it seems like you weren't going to do that so maybe not an issue?).

 

Meltdown v Fusion: I think Meltdown but it is a bit hard to tell and I can understand being undecided. Meltdown also fills your resistance holes (neg/psi/cold) which is incredibly helpful on a tank. Per City of Data, it seems like the difference in plus damage is less extreme than you thought, +50% for Fusion, +33% for Meltdown. Fusion is up for 10 seconds and has 90secs recharge by default (uptime of 11%) and Meltdown is up for 60 seconds and has a 480 sec recharge by default (uptime of 12.5%). I think in terms of pure damage boost, fusion pulls in the lead ever so slightly, but how often are you right on the ball with reusing a power like this? I would think most folks take a few seconds to actually click the button again which makes these pretty equal in terms of +damage.

 

It might be worth noting that you have a hidden layer of defense in Beta Decay, which does -5.25% To-Hit, if you factor that in you may be closer to defense soft cap than you realize, maybe hover/combat jumping isn't necessary after all? While the extra LOTG slot is never a bad thing, I don't think giving up Meltdown for it is a fair trade. 

 

Power 'Fusion' (Tanker_Melee.Radiation_Melee.Fusion) (uberguy.net)

Power 'Meltdown' (Tanker_Defense.Radiation_Armor.Meltdown) (uberguy.net)

[Warboss]

Well, Mids is being a pain and I don't feel like dealing with it after work. I'll see if I can get it working tomorrow.

[StoneKarma]

Ok, I found a better way. My Epic pool powers. I was taking Mu Mastery: 1-Mu Lightning to unlock 2-Ball Lightning to give me access to Ragnarok with capped my Toxic and Psionic RESISTs, gave me a 10% RECH and +ACC 15%. I went looking at other epics and found several that will take Ragnarok or Gravitational Anchor. Sitting right in front of me is Electrifying Fences. It takes Ragnarok with no prerequisite. This frees a power AND a slot.

 

So, I can take Hover to mule the LotG, Fusion AND Meltdown. So I think this is the FINAL(?) version of the new, improved RadKnight.

 

Thanks to everyone for helping me work through your ideas and sharing your knowledge. I appreciate your help!

Tanker RadKnight New (Radiation Armor - Radiation Melee).mbd

[Warboss]

I got Mids working and I see what you're doing and it looks like a good build. Here are some thoughts and suggestions feel free to incorporate some, all, or none.

1.  You don't have another attack until level 16. That might be a problem if running lower TFs, or exemping.
2. I'd pull one of your Taunts from Beta Decay and put it into Taunt it self. I haven't seen much use out of the chance for PSi damage in most powers, or Taunt for that matter. It does fire, but not very often (in my experience, ymmv).
3.  I'd change the BotZ to the Winter's Gift 20% Slow Resist in Fly.
4. I'd try to get the MotTs into an early power so you can start stacking the +Resists from the proc sooner (for lower level TFs and content).
5. For Kick, add the chance for +Recharge from Force Feedback.
6.  Pull the IA PSi Resist from Tough (only takes you down to 87.83%) and put the slot in CJ with a Defense IO from one of the sets already in there. You'll be just over 45% Melee Def w/o needing Hover Toggled on. Once the +Resist proc starts firing for MotT you'll be back over 90%.
7.  Do you need four of the Shield Breakers in IG? If not, you could recover one them for something else. Maybe add the slot to Gamma Boost and put the PT chance to heal there? I think it will fire more frequently than in EF. You could then put a damage proc in EF, or whatever works best.
8. Replace Hover with Meltdown, you can add your PSi Resist (Aegis PSi/Status) back there if you feel it's needed.

 

[Inf]

Before I start I will just say I'm not the best at designing builds, by a long shot. Nonetheless I'll share what I ended up with. I'm happy with it and rarely have any trouble with staying alive. It just has less focus on recharge and tohit than your build, so idk if that's an issue for you but I don't see any problems when playing.

Inf - Tanker (Radiation Armor - Radiation Melee).mbd

[StoneKarma]

1.  You don't have another attack until level 16. That might be a problem if running lower TFs, or exemping.
   1. I noticed that too. I don't exemp much with this guy, I thought I'd just limp along, and use Sand of Mu and such. The only thing I could think of would be Posi 1 or Posi 2. 
2. I'd pull one of your Taunts from Beta Decay and put it into Taunt it self. I haven't seen much use out of the chance for PSi damage in most powers, or Taunt for that matter. It does fire, but not very often (in my experience, ymmv).
   1. I've been watching for it to Proc also. It seems to proc often enough in either power. Killing things with the proc in Taunt is *very* entertaining.
3.  I'd change the BotZ to the Winter's Gift 20% Slow Resist in Fly.
   1. Excellent. I did this on the fly when I respecced. KB went from 14 to 10. I seem to remember anything over 8 is mostly wasted.
4. I'd try to get the MotTs into an early power so you can start stacking the +Resists from the proc sooner (for lower level TFs and content).
   1. I could swap Might of the Tanker in Atom Smasher with the Armageddon in Radiation Therapy. The current slotting maximizes the +RECH for Atom Smasher. The new slotting does as you suggested, but Radiation Therapy is on a 20s cooldown. But this suggested slotting also probably makes Atom Smasher do a bit more DMG. 
5. For Kick, add the chance for +Recharge from Force Feedback.
   1. I take kick, but don't put the FF proc in my builds because it's not in my normal attack chain and therefore never procs. I take Kick just in case one drops I'll use it, but otherwise it's an empty slot that I don't even put in my power tray. 
6.  Pull the IA PSi Resist from Tough (only takes you down to 87.83%) and put the slot in CJ with a Defense IO from one of the sets already in there. You'll be just over 45% Melee Def w/o needing Hover Toggled on. Once the +Resist proc starts firing for MotT you'll be back over 90%.
   1. Excellent idea. Looking at it a little closer, putting +DEF or +DEF/+END in Weave is slightly better. Weave does a larger +DEF, *and* +DEF/END RDX helps too, because I think Weave is my most expensive toggle. 
7.  Do you need four of the Shield Breakers in IG? If not, you could recover one them for something else. Maybe add the slot to Gamma Boost and put the PT chance to heal there? I think it will fire more frequently than in EF. You could then put a damage proc in EF, or whatever works best.
   1. Excellent idea! That 4th slot isn't doing much.
8. Replace Hover with Meltdown, you can add your PSi Resist (Aegis PSi/Status) back there if you feel it's needed.
   1. The current build has Hover and Meltdown.

 

 

Edit: Added the build file.

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Tanker RadKnight New (Radiation Armor - Radiation Melee).mbd

Edited June 9, 2023 by StoneKarma

[Sanguinesun]

15 hours ago, StoneKarma said:

Ok, I found a better way. My Epic pool powers. I was taking Mu Mastery: 1-Mu Lightning to unlock 2-Ball Lightning to give me access to Ragnarok with capped my Toxic and Psionic RESISTs, gave me a 10% RECH and +ACC 15%. I went looking at other epics and found several that will take Ragnarok or Gravitational Anchor. Sitting right in front of me is Electrifying Fences. It takes Ragnarok with no prerequisite. This frees a power AND a slot.

 

So, I can take Hover to mule the LotG, Fusion AND Meltdown. So I think this is the FINAL(?) version of the new, improved RadKnight.

 

Thanks to everyone for helping me work through your ideas and sharing your knowledge. I appreciate your help!

Tanker RadKnight New (Radiation Armor - Radiation Melee).mbd 44.39 kB · 2 downloads

 

My impression is you're wanting an all around tank that, well, tanks and of course can contribute to damage and more for the team perhaps.

 

I think one of the issues with your build potentially is your hyper focus on melee defense and the potential sacrifice of much else outside of being res cap'd on most all damage types.  If you're a tank, you're teaming, and if you're teaming, you're likely getting:

 

1. Buffs(especially defense being common) easily soft or even higher capping you.

2. Heals

3. Other buffs (damage, absorbs, to hits etc.

 

Mileage of course on those varies.  But especially if you're running higher end content scenarious, you can almost guarantee that you're getting good amounts of the above.

Of course, if you're doing lower end content, it also really doesnt matter because either people do not have their toons fleshed out, running no enhancers, or more, or the content is such that its not that much an issue otherwise.

That said then, you may wish to lessen off the hyper focus on the defense so that you can improve other parts of the build. 

 

If you do that, you're going to open up your possibilities alot more in terms of team contributions(like taking leadership), damage, your other powers to focus more in heal/regen and recovery,  incarnate choices and much more.  I think you'll find you'll be making a better tank in those regards.

 

Also looking over that build you currently have with personal thoughts on things:

 

1. You may wish to not take the flying pool and instead just taking a p2w fly, especially if you switch into leadership giving you two more potential lotg mules, in addition to more defense potentially along with the benefits for a team too.

2. Decay probably is better served with just a -res proc in the initial slot.  Even some of the farmer builds do nothing else except that and remember they're build for doing damage even. 

3.  Irradiated ground probably is better served putting your Superior Might of the tanker set in it.  Your build currently will have holes when the proc chance for +res doesnt go off and putting it in the auto power is a fire and forget so to speak.  This frees up your atom smasher to build differently, up to and even including a proc build for it.

4. Taunt also probably would benefit more from a D-synch Provocation instead(recharge taunt acc). 

5.  Mu Lightning with the +heal proc only is probably a waste because it has to hit to proc and then still have the chance to proc.  Putting another slot in endurance and putting it there gives it the proc n forget deal.

6.  You're under benefitting Gamma boost I think too.

 

 

And one could go on but again I just think you're making your situation more cumbersome because you're focused too much on melee defense chasing.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Sanguinesun

[StoneKarma]

6 hours ago, Sanguinesun said:

"That said then, you may wish to lessen off the hyper focus on the defense so that you can improve other parts of the build. " Agreed. I can see where you're coming from. I sort of started down this path because I didn't really know what else to optimize to fulfill my primary role as a tank. Melee DEF seemed useful.

 

1. You may wish to not take the flying pool and instead just taking a p2w fly, especially if you switch into leadership giving you two more potential lotg mules, in addition to more defense potentially along with the benefits for a team too.

     A: Flying is part of the character concept. Really, Flying and Taunt are the only two powers that I can't/won't work around. But, if I wasn't married to my character concept, I think you're right. I have a few toons that don't get a travel power and it's been ok without it. Anyone else that want to use this build, I think you're right, and they should skip travel powers. 

    

2. Decay probably is better served with just a -res proc in the initial slot.  Even some of the farmer builds do nothing else except that and remember they're build for doing damage even. 

     A: Tinkering with this suggestion and #3. I think you're right. 

3.  Irradiated ground probably is better served putting your Superior Might of the tanker set in it.  Your build currently will have holes when the proc chance for +res doesnt go off and putting it in the auto power is a fire and forget so to speak.  This frees up your atom smasher to build differently, up to and even including a proc build for it.

    A: VERY interesting. Doing as you suggest, 

4. Taunt also probably would benefit more from a D-synch Provocation instead(recharge taunt acc). 

    I just have two in it for the set bonus. Perfect Zinger +RES Toxic and Psionic, same with Radiation Therapy. 

5.  Mu Lightning with the +heal proc only is probably a waste because it has to hit to proc and then still have the chance to proc.  Putting another slot in endurance and putting it there gives it the proc n forget deal.

    N/A Mu Lightning isn't in the latest versions. 

6.  You're under benefitting Gamma boost I think too.

    If I take slots from Beta Decay (2) and Taunt (1) what should I put in Gamma Boost? That would be 1-3 extra slots for Gamma Boost. I could maybe pull up to 3 slots off of Radiation Therapy also, giving Gamma Boost up to 6 slots. 

Very cool ideas here. Now, I am able to ProcMonster two powers and keep roughly the same DEF and RES. 

 

Here's the latest build I'm using. 

View This Build In MRB

Edited June 9, 2023 by StoneKarma

[StoneKarma]

To follow up @Sanguinesun, you suggested taking a look at Gamma Boost to get more out of it. How do you suggest I slot it?

 

Did you have something specific in mind, or just look around for better slotting opportunities?

 

Attached is how the build currently looks. Thanks for your suggestions, it's been a huge help!

 

"6.  You're under benefitting Gamma boost I think too.

    If I take slots from Beta Decay (2) and Taunt (1) what should I put in Gamma Boost? That would be 1-3 extra slots for Gamma Boost. I could maybe pull up to 3 slots off of Radiation Therapy also, giving Gamma Boost up to 6 slots. "

Tanker RadKnight Draft (Radiation Armor - Radiation Melee).mbd

[Sanguinesun]

3 hours ago, StoneKarma said:

To follow up @Sanguinesun, you suggested taking a look at Gamma Boost to get more out of it. How do you suggest I slot it?

 

Did you have something specific in mind, or just look around for better slotting opportunities?

 

Attached is how the build currently looks. Thanks for your suggestions, it's been a huge help!

 

"6.  You're under benefitting Gamma boost I think too.

    If I take slots from Beta Decay (2) and Taunt (1) what should I put in Gamma Boost? That would be 1-3 extra slots for Gamma Boost. I could maybe pull up to 3 slots off of Radiation Therapy also, giving Gamma Boost up to 6 slots. "

Tanker RadKnight Draft (Radiation Armor - Radiation Melee).mbd 45.61 kB · 0 downloads

 

Depends on what you're willing to sacrifice, say for example the focus on making your melee soft cap as you are. Just playing around briefly, I changed your build to give more rounded resists, a smidge more damage for attacks, a lot more regen, a considerably better recharge potential(meaning more overall active damage in the build), more tohit, team benefits for some of the mentioned etc.   Sacrificed were some of your melee defense and s/l defense (again teams make that up and more typically),  a miniscule cold resist(as that's rad's hole under any circumstance), and dropped siphon as the build made still have plenty of single target damage more than siphon offered and the heal chance from a successful hit is covered(or better )(and the added regen perhaps).  Only other sacrifice after that is just your 2 damage procs in beta decay which again with the active recharge means overall doing more damage than those procs would've chanced perhaps.

 

But its a debatable consideration and again just from briefly fiddling around.  If I played with it more I could probably shift things around for more overall defense and back off on some damage on an attack or two but depends.

Tanker RadKnight Draft V2 (Radiation Armor - Radiation Melee).mbd

[StoneKarma]

If I wanted to use this as the basis for hard mode, "top tier" kind of things. What changes would you suggest? The resists are solid, but DEF is kind of "meh." Is that ok for this kind of content? I'm thinking about Ms Liberty TF, hard mode things on pick-up groups, things like that.