A fresh crack at Necro/EA - optimal Pet slotting?

[Onlyasandwich]

Hello MM town!

 

Edit: Tweaked slots a bit to optimize pet accuracy.

 

I haven't played either of these sets before, and precious few MM's. Just my demons/dark thus far, which I love.

 

With the changes, Necro is looking great these days, and I'm taking a crack at a fresh build. However, I'm a bit unsure of some of the finer points in optimal slotting here, especially as it relates to pets. Now that Soul extraction isn't just a mule for the Pet IOs, there's a bit more to consider on that front.

 

A few questions stand out, though perhaps you see other issues in the build below:

• Is it worth slotting Lich much for damage? It seems like he is primary for control effects. Certainly I've paid some attention here, but is running short on ED caps for damage a mistake for the Lich?
• Do you find the soulbound buildup proc worthwhile in Zombies, or other pets for that matter?
• Has anyone parsed out optimal proc slotting for Grave Knights? I'm pretty happy with my current slotting, but there are a ton of other approaches I can see.
• Procs in Soul extraction. I prioritized Dam/Rech, but squeezed the purple Hold proc in there as well. I see this in several other builds - is this a significant contributor, or just a "nice if you have room" sort of thing?
• Personal End contribution in Energizing Circuit. If I'm spamming this, how much can I expect it to support my own end? I understand it can bounce back to me if I'm diligent about generating static.
• Discharge - is it worth the animation time if you aren't trying to sap as a primary strat? I'm using it as a useful set mule right now, and the cooldown is short enough that between it and fences I should get mobs floored fairly shortly, but it isn't going to drain from the alpha. Do you bother with this power?
• Empowering Circuit and pet accuracy. Some of my pets are a bit low on acc, and my proc focused build doesn't really have global acc, though I am running kismet+tactics. I don't think Kismet helps my pets though. However, EC is a strong tohit buff. Do you think it's viable to rely on its uptime for max hit chance? I'm hoping to get some pretty regular bounces back to me for personal hit chance as well.
• Buffing Heal enhancement in Dark Empowerment - worthwhile, or just hit it with the base slot?
• Amp Up - is it much use in solo play? If so, who do you target - Grave Knights to add some KU soft control to the mix, or perhaps Lich to empower his controls and debuffs?

 

The build as it stands focuses on recharge and optimal damage/proc slotting for both attacks and pets. I'm also a big fan of slow resist, and am near cap here. I'm hoping that between pet distraction, heals/absorbs, moderate resists, and even the KD proc in fences, I have enough tools to make it through alive. What are your thoughts?

 

Build: (note Zombies are toggled off so Soulbound doesn't impact global totals)

 

 

electric necro.mbd

Edited August 12, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[kelika2]

I slot lich for damage, also one of the -tohit dmg procs.

the lich is weird, its control effects never really truly get used and if they do you cannot command it to use them properly

soulbound buildup is best in the knights, their new damage aura ensures plenty of uptime

i dont use procs in soul extract.  just 4/6 ato1 and 2/6 either rech intensive pet set

 

i do not know elec aff

[Onlyasandwich]

31 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

soulbound buildup is best in the knights, their new damage aura ensures plenty of uptime

Great insight with the aura!

 

Even so, does it outpace achilles, grey, or shieldbreaker? If you were to swap, which would you drop in favor of soulbound? 

[kelika2]

33 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Great insight with the aura!

 

Even so, does it outpace achilles, grey, or shieldbreaker? If you were to swap, which would you drop in favor of soulbound? 

I also dont use dmg procs in the knights.  because they are split between -tohit and -def its not worth it to me.

 

For pets, if you slot achilles in the knights it will only go off on whatever has -def.  so it will not proc on gloom or dark blast for example.

[Tacheyon]

8 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Hello MM town!

 

Edit: Tweaked slots a bit to optimize pet accuracy.

 

I haven't played either of these sets before, and precious few MM's. Just my demons/dark thus far, which I love.

 

With the changes, Necro is looking great these days, and I'm taking a crack at a fresh build. However, I'm a bit unsure of some of the finer points in optimal slotting here, especially as it relates to pets. Now that Soul extraction isn't just a mule for the Pet IOs, there's a bit more to consider on that front.

 

A few questions stand out, though perhaps you see other issues in the build below:

• Is it worth slotting Lich much for damage? It seems like he is primary for control effects. Certainly I've paid some attention here, but is running short on ED caps for damage a mistake for the Lich?
• Do you find the soulbound buildup proc worthwhile in Zombies, or other pets for that matter?
• Has anyone parsed out optimal proc slotting for Grave Knights? I'm pretty happy with my current slotting, but there are a ton of other approaches I can see.
• Procs in Soul extraction. I prioritized Dam/Rech, but squeezed the purple Hold proc in there as well. I see this in several other builds - is this a significant contributor, or just a "nice if you have room" sort of thing?
• Personal End contribution in Energizing Circuit. If I'm spamming this, how much can I expect it to support my own end? I understand it can bounce back to me if I'm diligent about generating static.
• Discharge - is it worth the animation time if you aren't trying to sap as a primary strat? I'm using it as a useful set mule right now, and the cooldown is short enough that between it and fences I should get mobs floored fairly shortly, but it isn't going to drain from the alpha. Do you bother with this power?
• Empowering Circuit and pet accuracy. Some of my pets are a bit low on acc, and my proc focused build doesn't really have global acc, though I am running kismet+tactics. I don't think Kismet helps my pets though. However, EC is a strong tohit buff. Do you think it's viable to rely on its uptime for max hit chance? I'm hoping to get some pretty regular bounces back to me for personal hit chance as well.
• Buffing Heal enhancement in Dark Empowerment - worthwhile, or just hit it with the base slot?
• Amp Up - is it much use in solo play? If so, who do you target - Grave Knights to add some KU soft control to the mix, or perhaps Lich to empower his controls and debuffs?

 

The build as it stands focuses on recharge and optimal damage/proc slotting for both attacks and pets. I'm also a big fan of slow resist, and am near cap here. I'm hoping that between pet distraction, heals/absorbs, moderate resists, and even the KD proc in fences, I have enough tools to make it through alive. What are your thoughts?

 

Build: (note Zombies are toggled off so Soulbound doesn't impact global totals)

 

 

electric necro.mbd 43.46 kB · 0 downloads

 

I do love my /EA MM's.  They are tough and can constantly attack thanks to UNLIMITED POWE...err Endurance.

 

Don't really worry about Discharge or Shock with Necro you actually do want to take some of your personal attacks to spawn wraiths.  So if (IF) you have room at the end do ahead, although I haven't had much luck with draining anything over a LT yet.

 

Once you use Faraday Cage and shoot a few heals then your bounces should go beyond you and your pet count.  But remember each bounce lessens the bonuses each target gets.  So if the buff goes through all your pets first then you, you only get a small bonus.

 

Also you can skip Amp Up unless you are teaming with a friend.  For some reason this power just doesn't proc on Pets.  Or at least that I can see.  Maybe someone else has proven it works.

[Onlyasandwich]

3 hours ago, Tacheyon said:

UNLIMITED POWE...err Endurance.

Thank you for the EA perspective!

 

In your experience, can EA get away with skipping extra slotting in Health/Stamina for end support? I know MM's can be a bit end hungry, especially when using their attacks.

 

My build has taken all of the primary attacks and given them good attention. Dropping Discharge would free me up to grab another epic attack or something else interesting. I'll keep Amp up if only for when I do team. Shame to miss such a strong buff!

 

Has anyone put Grave Knights through @Carnifax's parser or a similar tool to figure out optimal proc slotting? Intuitively, it does sound like the Build Up proc is a priority based on the damage aura as @kelika2pointed out. This should indeed guarantee pretty high uptime, especially in crowds. However, a substantial portion of their attacks are still -def, so I feel it still worthwhile to squeeze -def procs in as well. Currently I've swapped the Grave Knights to Buildup, achilles, lady grey, but perhaps someone else has done the math and knows better.

 

Edit: I had a silly inspiration and dropped Discharge in favor of Whirlwind! The extra slots get distributed to shore up odds and ends and enhance the new toy. I know not many MMs would view this as optimal, but it's certainly fun and I want to give it a shot. I know @Nemu has been on a Whirlwind press tour lately, and I want to see for myself. It really fits the theme of this particular character as well. If you have experience on this front, I'd love to hear it!

 

His name is "Ded Zappelin." 😄 The idea is a musician whose electric guitar is empowered by a god of revelry to "inspire" the dead out of their graves. It's all about electricity, undeath, and putting on a great show.

 

If anyone has tried hold procs, especially the purple one, in Soul Extraction, I'd love to hear how much of a difference it made. I'm contemplating swapping for the 6th ATO to max out my S/L resist.

 

New Build:

electric necro strike.mbd

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[Tacheyon]

8 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Thank you for the EA perspective!

 

In your experience, can EA get away with skipping extra slotting in Health/Stamina for end support? I know MM's can be a bit end hungry, especially when using their attacks.

 

My build has taken all of the primary attacks and given them good attention. Dropping Discharge would free me up to grab another epic attack or something else interesting. I'll keep Amp up if only for when I do team. Shame to miss such a strong buff!

 

 

New Build:

electric necro strike.mbd 43.64 kB · 0 downloads

 

 

No, still slot Stamina and Health for End.  Because Energizing Circuit again is a chain so depending on when you get hit, it can be a huge gain or just enough to cover the cost of the power (it's base end cost is 16.5).  That means it's too unpredictable for you as you have a fair number of toggles.  But it is good for your pets who only have attacks and to top off teammates (if you target them first).

 

Also looking at your build, I would drop Whirlwind and pick up Defib, then you can Veng and Rez someone.  Not only is it a great AOE rez, but like Howling Twilight (from Dark) you can use it as a end drain attack.  Everything else looks pretty good.

[evetsleep]

Something to consider with discharge and shock is that, yes they do -END and there are lots of views on the value of this, but I see it from another angle.   They apply a -DMG debuffs (which is effectively +RES).  It isn't something you can enhamce, but that -DMG stacks nicely with +RES from faraday cage and and +RES that your henchmen already have.

 

If I have room for both I normally take them to help the little guys stay around a wee bit longer.

[Onlyasandwich]

10 hours ago, evetsleep said:

-DMG debuffs

This is true. My initial inclination was that the animation time isn't really worth it given the way -Dam is reduced by resistances and level.

 

However, even a 1/3 to 1/2 strength debuff there isn't negligible when you are near resist caps, and the idea of sapping as a sideline mitigation strategy is sort of fun, even if not always optimal.

 

After further reading, it looks like Defib can be used without a dead ally - is that right? That seems to be what @Tacheyonis saying here as well. It seems to be a reasonable follow-up to sap in one combo when you wish in addition to its utility as a rez. The power description is not so helpful with this one, but it looks to be so in CoD as well. 

 

Given all of this, I've reworked again further. I don't super miss the extra lotg given otherwise strong recharge numbers. electric necro.mbd

Edited August 14, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[Onlyasandwich]

Still tinkering with this build! There's so much to balance with MM's. 

 

Moved slots around to:

• Gain acc/dam in Lich.
• Slot Defib with more regular usage in mind (endredux, recharge), anticipating its role as a potential sapping tool. How effective is this for sapping in practice? I'm not quite understanding the formula for it presented in City of Data.
• Achieve better totals for energizing circuit.

 

In the exchange, I lost:

• 10% slow resist.
• 6 % Tox/Psi resist.
• Purple proc in Soul Extraction (Big loss, negligible?)

 

Once I get this fellow up in levels I'll do some parsing myself to see if I can come to clear answers on optimal pet slotting.

 

electric necro mk2.mbd

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[Onlyasandwich]

I've been playing this guy now to 36, and am very impressed! That is, most impressed by the powersets themselves.

 

/elec was pretty dicey for survival, especially keeping the Zombies alive, but Insulating Circuit changed everything. The whole business is pretty active though, or I risk losing my static, and am less likely to get endurance injections chaining to myself.

 

Soul Extraction is the all-star everyone says it is. Hit that button and I can just spam Insulating with all my pets in aggro mode until the mobs are gone.

 

I've gone back to a more refined version of my original build, and intend on testing the Purple proc in soul extraction. If anyone has their own formal parsing on this, along with necro pet slotting in general, I'd love to see!

 

Edit: Further build tinkering. I've realized it's not worth sweating about every tiny drop of recharge for this combo - better to optimize local enhancement in certain key powers in some cases, while grabbing the easy bonuses.

 

electric necro mk3.mbd

 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[StrikerFox]

On 8/12/2023 at 6:57 PM, kelika2 said:

I also dont use dmg procs in the knights.  because they are split between -tohit and -def its not worth it to me.

 

I've always thought the damage procs in Grave Knights are worth it but actually never tested without them. So I gave it a go. Musculature Radial Alpha, Reactive Radial Interface and Assault Radial Hybrid (Off) are slotted. Only GK attacking with MM Provoking.

 

 

Four lvl 53 acc/dam HOs (+127% damage bonus), Achilles' and Soulbound equipped. No damage procs. 

 

 

2023-08-20 11:50:34 start
2023-08-20 12:01:02 finish

10m28s/628s = 189dps

 

 

Two lvl 53 acc/dam HOs (+108% damage bonus), Shield Breaker, Lady Grey, Achilles' and Soulbound equipped. 

 

 

2023-08-20 12:35:57 start
2023-08-20 12:42:49 finish

6m52s/412s = 221dps

 

The procs shaved off around 3m36s off the pylon time, they gained around 32dps. Good call on Soulbound in GK! I didn't even think of the new aura. With that info, I think this would be my best all round slotting for Necro pets @Onlyasandwich

 

 

-All IOs increasing pet stats are boosted to +5.
-Zombies with some KD mitigation.
-Grave Knights with several procs.
-Lich with some enhanced -tohit and mez.
-All 8 major pet IOs slotted.
-Good amount of +damage res.
-Good amount of +max HP, +regen, improved self-heals.

-Ideally Musculature Core/Radial or Intuition Radial Alpha slotted.

[Onlyasandwich]

Thank you for sharing your findings, @StrikerFox!

 

Given that this higher average dps came out even with ~30% less ED than the non proc test, these are pretty favorable results for -def procs in the Knights.

 

When I get to 50 and incarnated, I'll do some parsing of my own. I'm especially interested in the impact of procs in Soul Extraction, having the purple hold proc there right now in the build myself. It may be that even if it works really well, the power is so strong baseline that it's sort of redundant. In that case, I could take the S/L resist ATO set bonus or steal the slot for something else fun.

 

My slotting is somewhat similar to yours, but takes full advantage of the 2 slot ATO recharge bonuses. I'm a bit lacking in global acc, so need a bit more local enhancement to max out against +3's, thus room for 1 less proc in Knights.

 

For reference:

 

/Elec takes care of pet survival and end quite well, so I see less usefulness in worrying about adding regen or end procs to the pet upgrades for my build.

 

This slotting gives all three pets roughly ~60% acc, ~115% damage, with pertinent procs squeezed in (minus shield breaker in Knights). All Pet IO's slotted, with accompanying acc/dam to round out hit chances and gather small set bonuses (why not). I do quite enjoy the OF Knockdown in Zombies! It makes a big difference as you note.

 

Here is the build, which I have further streamlined for end consumption and pared down cost as well where possible. I have found that it can be a bit dicey relying on injections from energizing circuit, and I want to be sure I have a solid baseline to keep spamming however I like!

 

electric necro mk4.mbd

Edited August 20, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[StrikerFox]

2 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

electric necro mk4.mbd 44.33 kB · 1 download

 

Consider slotting the Panacea unique into Insulating Circuit. It has a chance to proc on all allies it rebounds to, including yourself. Panacea procs highlighted with a red dot.

 

[Onlyasandwich]

1 hour ago, StrikerFox said:

Panacea

Great! Added bonus of saving me a slot.

 

I wonder how the personal end benefit stacks up in comparison to health if I'm spamming it. Mids says about 70% fire rate, so pretty good odds, though it is random wether I get hp, plus end, or both I believe. 

 

Edit. In health it hits 50% of the time every 10 seconds, so insulating looks way better when spamming. The concern then is if it chaining to me reliably, but even if only half the time it's looking really good. Great call! 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[Raikao]

So I always use catalyzed enhancements.

 

What exactly is the difference to using +5 set IOs? Do those stop working when you exemplare below 50?

 

I made an /EA alt for farming and just needed a little more XP to get to 50 after boosting it, so I did a quick mission and forgot I still had the difficulty set to +1/8 or maybe even +2. And I got through that mission with only 70% complete slotting. Mostly I ws just impressed by how strong the circuit spam can be. So I'm considering Necro/EA now as well which is how I got here.

 

But yeah, why use +5 set IOs over catalyzed set IOs?

[Onlyasandwich]

8 hours ago, Raikao said:

What exactly is the difference to using +5 set IOs?

 

A few things:

• Greater enhancement value - this is the reason to use them!
• For normal sets, the set bonus will no longer be available when exemping more than three levels below the value (ie a boosted level 50 IO would grant no set bonuses when at level 46 and lower. This is the trade off normally.

 

There are some notable exceptions, which guide how I attune and boost. PVP sets and purples always act as attuned even when boosted. There is no reason not to boost them. 

 

I'll also boost set IOs sometimes when the set bonus is pretty unimportant, and the extra enhancement value would be useful. A common example is boosting the endmod in performance shifter when slotted in stamina. I'll benefit from greater endmod, and I don't care if I lose the 7.5% movement speed set bonus when exemping.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[Raikao]

15 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

 

A few things:

• Greater enhancement value - this is the reason to use them!
• For normal sets, the set bonus will no longer be available when exemping more than three levels below the value (ie a boosted level 50 IO would grant no set bonuses when at level 46 and lower. This is the trade off normally.

 

There are some notable exceptions, which guide how I attune and boost. PVP sets and purples always act as attuned even when boosted. There is no reason not to boost them. 

 

I'll also boost set IOs sometimes when the set bonus is pretty unimportant, and the extra enhancement value would be useful. A common example is boosting the endmod in performance shifter when slotted in stamina. I'll benefit from greater endmod, and I don't care if I lose the 7.5% movement speed set bonus when exemping.

 

Oh god that last part. I have to check but boosting Expedient Reforces Acc/Dmg instead of using a Nucleus makes sense then, since I don't care about loosing the 2piece setbonus.

 

Well time to remake all of my builds. This gives me a lot to think about for slotting efficiency. Same for always boosting PvP sets and purples.

[StrikerFox]

On 8/18/2023 at 1:32 PM, Onlyasandwich said:

testing the Purple proc in soul extraction. If anyone has their own formal parsing on this, along with necro pet slotting in general, 

 

I did some testing with Unbreakable Constraint VS Cloud Senses in Soul Extraction. MM Provoking while flying, pets on passive-stay at the pylon's base. Soul Extraction cast 6 times, 3 mins worth of attacks. 

 

UC activated 61 times, in about 180secs, for about 85.68 damage per hit, for a total of 5226.5 damage. CS activated 118 times, in 180secs, for around 57.4 damage per hit for a total of 6773.2 damage.

 

Log attached below but my numbers are skewed a bit. I forgot to unslot Reactive Interface so the -res debuff was randomly bumping up the damage numbers. But it won't affect the quantity of proc activations.

 

I would roll with Cloud Senses if having to choose one. It activates twice as often which equates to more damage, exotic damage type, cheaper to get on the market.

 

chatlog 2023-09-05.txt

[Onlyasandwich]

18 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

I did some testing with Unbreakable Constraint VS Cloud Senses in Soul Extraction.

Excellent results, and thank you for sharing, Striker!

 

One lesson I bring from this beyond just cloud senses being superior - it's pretty powerful to save room for a proc in Soul Extraction. Even if you don't benefit from the full duration with all of these attacks, that is a substantial amount of damage.