Rolled a Sonic/Seismic Defender...Looking for Thoughts on Primary Set

[Renatos1023]

Let me preface this with I played Sonic/ once on live. I know the downfalls. I just haven't seen any recent Sonic/ posts and was looking for the community's thoughts. 

 

I've rolled every Defender primary except for Traps, Thermal...and Sonic. The 3 that I've always felt were weakest. So, I decided to try out Sonic/ today.

 

I got up to 21 and it has been a fun ride so far! Without slotting, adding 35% res to all but Psi (for teammates), plus some status resist doesn't seem terrible. All the powers I've taken so far have been good. But I've always had an issue with the later Sonic powers...they all look like they suck. After 20, it doesn't even seem like I need to take anything else. Sonic Repulsion seems useless; why would I bother with Clarity when I already have Dispersion. I will obviously take Liquefy since it is the T9...but by god, why a 5-minute recharge.

 

I played Sonic on live briefly, so I know what I was walking into. But I've always wanted either a Sonic/ defender or a /Sonic Corr (for theme reasons), so I went the Def route. I do like Seismic. The cone that knocks everything down, once the seismic power is built up, is pretty good damage mitigation. I'm going to keep pushing forward with this character because the lower levels have been fun.

 

I assume with basic IO slotting I should be giving my team ~50% resist to all but psi, plus mez resist for us squishies. I also hope (fingers crossed) that maybe Sonic/ is better in upper levels since most people seem to go for maxing out defense with IO sets, so plugging the Res gap is what I'm going to accomplish. I also have a (maybe false) hope that if any set needs a buff it is Sonic/, and when it comes mine will be at 50 lol.

 

Does anyone actually appreciate a well-built Sonic/ at end-game or am I just too optimistic?

[Without_Pause]

23 hours ago, Renatos1023 said:

LDoes anyone actually appreciate a well-built Sonic/ at end-game or am I just too optimistic?

I to a default play Def based characters or have my Def as high as I can get it, so yes, adding in a significant amount of Res is going to make my characters incredibly durable. I remember on Live I was on a Hollows team with a Sonic and FF, and it felt like Free XP Day.

[Doomguide2005]

11 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

I to a default play Def based characters or have my Def as high as I can get it, so yes, adding in a significant amount of Res is going to make my characters incredibly durable. I remember on Live I was on a Hollows team with a Sonic and FF, and it felt like Free XP Day.

Oh boy indeed.

Expand that to an 8-man team, include a Kinetics and you have the issue 9 team that jumped the patron final four AVs on a then new Master of run.  And proceeded to curbstomp them and Recluse.

[Renatos1023]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:20 PM, Without_Pause said:

I to a default play Def based characters or have my Def as high as I can get it, so yes, adding in a significant amount of Res is going to make my characters incredibly durable. I remember on Live I was on a Hollows team with a Sonic and FF, and it felt like Free XP Day.

This is typically what I do too, especially when it comes to melee characters. However, I realized that most people are always going for at least soft-capped def (myself included). So, I figured, why not go for a bottom-of-the-bin set (at least the common consensus) that offers a ton of Resistance. I've really had a blast so far. 

 

I hit 50 the other day and am slowly slotting her up. But I currently give about 55% Res+ (no Psi) to my team as long as they're under my bubble (If not under the bubble it is more like 33%). Honestly not shabby either way, as we know most of us are out there capping defense. I'm still trying to figure out some slots, and my endurance, but I think that will come with time and more incarnates.  

 

 

Do I have some fixes I'd make to the Sonic/ primary, duh. We all do. I always thought that Sonic/ did a good job of upping its own Team's resistance (which is only 3/9 powers) yet did crap when it came to de-buffing resistance. And that is why I'm going to list my desired tweaks to Sonic/ here. Sonic/ isn't terrible, but it isn't Cold/ (which IMO is my best performing Defender). Obviously, you're free to disagree with me (and I know you will 🙂 ), but I just want some Sonic/ love from the Devs lol. 

 

 

T1. Sonic Siphon: as the T1 it seems to have a larger recharge than other Defender T1s. I'd reduce recharge by 2 seconds. 

 

T2/3. Sonic Barrier/Sonic Haven: I think these are fine. Would I like to see like 2.5% base increase on resistance, yes. But, no complaints.

 

T4. Sonic Cage: Either remove and make totally different or make a toggle (that you can drop when you want or that drops after 30 seconds max). No one wants a crappy intangible power that they can't control. Sonic is supposed to be the king of -res but this does nothing to get us there (and honestly, we have little to get us there currently imo with the Sonic/ primary). I'd prefer it not be an intangible power. I think it should be an actual big cage of sonic energy, similar in area to Ice Slick, that just moderately lowers resistance, say -10%.  It can be a click or a toggle (like the Elec. Aff. mez resist). This would allow sonic defenders to do what they're supposed to, aka lower Resistance (Sonic/ by itself only has the single target (T1) that lowers Res on a single target by 30% and the toggle discussed below, which is a heavy endurance cost centered on an Ally at -30% Res). Having this cage would allow a Sonic/ to actually have some -Res in an AoE when they are solo.

 

T5. Disruption Field: No complaints again. Just a basic cast-on-ally power. I just slot with 2 end. redux. 

 

T6. Sonic Dispersion: Also, no complaints. Would I like to see an extra 2.5% Res added, sure. And some Sleep resistance, definitely. But that is not going to happen so I'm happy with what I have. 

 

T.7 Sonic Repulsion: Does anyone actually take this? I know you can slot a KB -to-KD enhancement in it, but who wants to pay that monster amount of endurance. This should be a one-off click like the power in Fire Control (Bonfire?) or Force Field (Force Bomb?) that just knocks a group down. I'd be more than happy with that, as long as it had like -7.5% Res (hell I'd take -5%). Thats my fix for this one.

 

T.8 Clarity: This never made sense to me in Sonic. I have my anti-Mez bubble like FF does, yet FF isn't given a crappy power like this (yes, I know it gives some sleep protection, but that is not worth a whole power pick). Honestly, this could be anything. I think Sonic/ should be the both the best -Res, and +Res of all sets. I think Clarity should be a single target, long recharge buff: say +25% Res to all, +To-hit, +Dam, -Res (-7.5% in a circle around the target) -- make it on a timer like Adrenaline Boost -- idk but make it useful.

 

T9. Liquefy: This power has two issues: recharge and too many debuffs. I think the recharge should be lowered from 5 minutes to 3 minutes. 5 minutes is a ridiculous time and no other Defender T9 (or any other AT T9 that I can think of) is that long. It can lose the hold that that it has (why is it there? it is useless) and we can lower the Def. Debuff Percentage and the To-Hit Debuff percentage to like 25% base (pretty sure it is high 30s right now). I'd actually prefer to lose the To-hit debuff, and actually make it do -Res in its place -- like Sonic is supposed to do. 

 

I think more of a focus on +Res for allies and -Res for foes would pull Sonic out of the near bottom position that I know that it is in.

 

I am curious to hear other's thoughts on how to improve Sonic/. I'm pretty sure this is one of the few sets that hasn't been modified since live.

 

Thanks!

Renatos

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Renatos1023

[MoonSheep]

Liquefy needs a massive rework to bring some life back into the sonic resonance powerset - should have a 90 second base recharge time max

 

i have always loved sonic and played a sonic/archery def on live to 50, but gawd does that T9 power need some serious love

[Without_Pause]

I would compare Liquefy to EMP Arrow and that is also 5 minutes. There are T9s at 6 minutes, Chrono Shift and Painbringer are at least two. 

[Onlyasandwich]

39 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Chrono Shift and Painbringer are at least two. 

That's a bit of an uneven comparison, as these are buffs that carry with you, and can be made almost perma. 

 

That being said, it is an extremely potent power. Its power budget is invested in somewhat redundant effects though. As the only real proactive enemy affecting power in the set, the long timer is felt more substantially. 

 

-res here would help Sonic live up to its rep as King of that debuff. As is it's outshined by cold, and basically equal to any other set with a standard aoe -res. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[Without_Pause]

5 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

That's a bit of an uneven comparison, as these are buffs that carry with you, and can be made almost perma. 

They are listed simply because the OP said they didn't think any other T9 was that long. Yes, they are different, but again, EMP Arrow is very similar and has a 5 minute recharge. Considering Controller AoE Holds are on a 4-miute timer, good luck getting either of those powers down to 90 seconds.

 

And if you don't have Chrono Shift down to perma, are you really playing with Time? 🤣FYI, without slotting being done or Incarnates involved, my Time/rad has a listed recharge of 89.16 seconds. My Fire/time Controller will get there with Incarnates.

[Wimbochismo]

This thread made me inspired to revisit Sonic Resonance, been wanting one for a while. I came up with a pretty good Sonic/Dark build. As a ranged defense build and juggling endurance costs I found it challenging to work with a heavy resist enhancement based set. Especially if you view it as "losing" slots for things that won't buff you (obvious big gain for allies).

 

Unlike FF, you really need to boost up the team shields because you get so much value from the extra res. Something like 3+ slots unless you go 2 slots with a +5 enhancement, but you lose set bonuses. Some of the resist sets are kind of underwhelming or prohibitive on slot economy. A good example is Sonic Dispersion where one of the only sets heavy in end red is Reactive Armor, but with mediocre set bonuses. I ended up having to frankenslot to get the end red and resist up. 

 

Even with heavy recharge I can only see Liquefy getting down to around an 80s recharge. Instead of going after it aggressively I went for any set bonus applicable, instead of a recharge heavy set. At 80s, something like an extra 15s isn't going to make a huge difference.

 

All of the above also contributed to endurance cost challenges and I just barely squeaked by with something acceptable. If running Disruption I'd probably have to start pausing attacks. If Sonic was on a Controller or Corruptor I could see it being more difficult. Defender's definitely have an edge on ease of building and reduced end costs when allies take dmg.

 

I figured I'd share my challenges trying to make a build out of Sonic. There are some unique build pitfalls with it to watch out for. If you lose some defense you'd probably have an easier time. It's far different then say FF where you can shove LotG's everywhere for easy recharge bonuses.

[Renatos1023]

I'm happy to see some Sonic/ discussion going! Lets make sure the Devs see it. As an update, I am currently at Vet lv.10. I absolutely love this character so far. With the slots I currently have I give about 60% Res to all (except Psi.: ~35% from shields, and ~25% from the bubble). I actually think these numbers are pretty solid. I also have 27% Rng./28% Mel./29% AOE Def.; capped S/L res, 39% res to Psi, and 30% to res to all else.  And this character isn't even fully slotted yet. She's pretty solid -- especially for what I consider a bottom-of-the-line primary (maybe its not so crappy after all?!) 

 

To respond to a few posts: 

 

On 8/28/2023 at 10:26 AM, Onlyasandwich said:

That's a bit of an uneven comparison, as these are buffs that carry with you, and can be made almost perma. 

 

That being said, it is an extremely potent power. Its power budget is invested in somewhat redundant effects though. As the only real proactive enemy affecting power in the set, the long timer is felt more substantially. 

 

-res here would help Sonic live up to its rep as King of that debuff. As is it's outshined by cold, and basically equal to any other set with a standard aoe -res. 

 

This is what I was going for! Thank you @Onlyasandwich for putting into words what I couldn't. I have a habit of comparing AoE debuff powers to my two favorite ones: Freezing Rain and Sleet. In comparison, Liquefy sucks. Especially as a T9. And especially in a set that should specializes in -Res. Why TF is there a hold and -Acc. In my opinion, and as someone who has a maxed out Cold/ fender (and multiple Storm Fenders/Corrs)...this is the discrepancy. Maybe Sleet/FR is OP (i don't think they are), but I am damn sure that Liquefy is shiite. Sonic/ has no quality AoE debuffs. As I said, I'd be happy if this T9 went down to 3, hell even 4, minutes, lost the hold, and then lost either the Acc debuff or the Def debuff and replaced one of them with a solid Resistance debuff. 

[Renatos1023]

Also wanted to reply to @Without_Pause because they do make a good point: 

On 8/28/2023 at 9:54 AM, Without_Pause said:

I would compare Liquefy to EMP Arrow and that is also 5 minutes. There are T9s at 6 minutes, Chrono Shift and Painbringer are at least two. 

 

On 8/28/2023 at 10:48 AM, Without_Pause said:

They are listed simply because the OP said they didn't think any other T9 was that long. Yes, they are different, but again, EMP Arrow is very similar and has a 5 minute recharge. Considering Controller AoE Holds are on a 4-miute timer, good luck getting either of those powers down to 90 seconds.

 

And if you don't have Chrono Shift down to perma, are you really playing with Time? 🤣FYI, without slotting being done or Incarnates involved, my Time/rad has a listed recharge of 89.16 seconds. My Fire/time Controller will get there with Incarnates.

 

Thanks for showing me that there are other T9s with absurd recharge times! I do appreciate it. However, I do think there is one big difference -- especially between Sonic/ and Trick Arrow/. TA is all debuffs, to the point that all 9 powers are actually SOLID debuffs. Whereas Sonic/ has no solid debuffs imo -- yes, we have the single target -30% (whoop /s) and the Ally Targeted PBAoE debuff...but I need a team for my best debuff (the PBAoE one). TA doesn't. And the Sonic/ buffs are good, but only if you can keep everyone in your Bubble. 

 

There is a massive discrepancy between Sonic/ and all other primaries that I've played (as I said in the first post I don't have a Thermal/ or Traps/ defender). I think fixing the T9 to make it a useful debuff, can help this. Especially when there are already 3 other powers in the set that shouldn't currently be taken. Hell, I can argue that the T9 is a 4th power that shouldn't be taken because of its recharge, which leaves Sonic/ with only 5 powers that are necessary. 

 

I'm not trying to shit on Sonic/ -- I wouldn't have played it and given my feedback if I truly hated it. But I do feel it needs work. Will I continue to run ITFs --yup! Will I wish that Liquefy was useful, also yup. 

[Thraxen]

I always love having a sonic on the team. I like tanking and having the cool field on me. 

[Renatos1023]

Just back to update, cause I am now working my way through getting all my Incarnates from T3 to T4 (2/6 of the way there!). 

 

Gotta say I have enjoyed the end game content and running with this character. I've invested heavily in +rech and +def. She currently sits at:

• Defense: 35.4% Rng/37% Melee/36.6% AoE
• Resists: 75% sm/l res.; 41% psi; 37% EN/Neg; 33% Fire/Cold; 30% Tox.
• Recharge: 55% global (+70% when Hasten is up for a total of 125%) (I also just got Ageless Core Epiphany which gives 10-40% more based on timing)

I'd have to say she's pretty friggen sturdy. The recharge lets me Nuke close to every other mob and Liquefy also doesn't seem like it takes too long to come back around. The one thing that I miss as a defender is a good solid, AoE debuff. I find that Disruption Field (the ally-targeted AoE-res) seems to de-toggle often, especially on missions with elevators. This gets annoying on fast-paced teams (aka all 50+ teams) cause if you're like 3 seconds behind someone on an elevator, it goes down. This should just be map-wide, so I don't have to keep re-toggling. Otherwise, this character has been a blast! I think teams appreciate the 58-60% +Res to all (but Psi).

 

Incarnates currently are: 

1. Alpha: Cardiac Core Paragon (needed the end. reduction, plus the extra range and +res never hurt)
2. Interface: Reactive Total Core Conversion (needed to find some more -res somewhere)
3. Judgement: Ion Total Core (easily shot from any range)
4. Destiny: Ageless Core Paragon (totally solves all end. issues plus the extra +rech -- at some point may reconsider the +def destiny power since I don't seem to have end. issues anymore even without this running)
5. Lore: Banished Pantheon Total Core (totally random tbh)
6. Hybrid: Support Total Core Graft (extra +def onto the already high numbers stated above)

 

Just wanted to share my Sonic/ journey and hope to see others do the same. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Renatos1023

[MonteCarla]

I have to admit I quite like Sonic Resonance. It's a set I play when I feel like I haven't been teaming enough. 🙂 I've done:

- Sonic/Water Defender

- Sonic/Radiation Defender (ultimate offensive debuffer, loved this one!)

- Earth/Sonic Controller

 

Adding 55% Resistance to everything except Psi to the whole team is huge, considering you're adding to everyone's existing resistances, and often capping people.

 

I always got the feeling it was balanced with Sonic Blast, and came out underperforming compared to the overperforming blast set. When your blast set debuffs resistance better than your primary, something's up.

 

If I could change it...

 

1) Sonic Siphon needs to do something else as well. Maybe a -Def debuff, which would allow us to slot Achilles Heel in there? Maybe add a radius to it like the Poison debuffs got? At the moment it often feels like a waste of animation time. Even just up the value of the debuff a bit, but make it more than a single target, no other effects version of debuffs many other sets get. Time and Pain, for example, get a once-per-spawn-with-good-recharge AoE -Def/-Res, whereas Sonic gets to ping at individual targets and still deliver less -Res if you account for the Achilles proc.

 

2) The Psi-hole kind of sucks, and feels very Issue 5. Clarity needs something else. Give Clarity a big +Psi Resist, 30% base maybe? 

[Psyonico]

IMO the only thing that Sonic Resonance really needs is the recharge on liquify cut down substantially, like, in half.

 

Sonic siphon is good for tough targets in end game, but it really shines in low levels before people have a lot of slots in their attack.

[Onlyasandwich]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:22 AM, Psyonico said:

Sonic siphon

I basically agree here, but Sonic siphon is just such a boring power. How many st debuffs out there just do one thing like this?

 

I'd love some even small benefit that follows through on the "siphon" concept. Maybe a small, but pretty lengthy damage buff, or even an extra tiny aoe res boost. 

[Renatos1023]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:22 AM, Psyonico said:

IMO the only thing that Sonic Resonance really needs is the recharge on liquify cut down substantially, like, in half.

 

Sonic siphon is good for tough targets in end game, but it really shines in low levels before people have a lot of slots in their attack.

It looks like the Devs were listening! The version on the test server now has a 150 second recharge. I think this will be a huge change for Sonic/.

 

I do think a couple of the other powers need to be updated or changed to truly bring the set in-line with others.

1. Clarity, in a set that has Sonic Dispersion, is useless and almost never taken. Maybe drop it to later in the set (say T8) and make it a decent single target buff ala Fortitude, but with +Res, +Perception, +Dam (but a longer recharge than Fort so it can't be easily perma, think Adrenaline Boost-ish).
2. Sonic Cage, I guess could be useful for people who don't hate intangible powers - but should at least be a toggle that lasts max 30 seconds that you can drop whenever (I still likely wouldn't take it but it would at least have some situational usefulness).
3. Sonic Repulsion, which is just plain useless. I think there needs to be another AoE/Cone -Res power, because that should be Sonic's forte. I'd make this that type of power. Maybe something in the mold of Fearsome Stare's cone, but with -15% Res and a mag 2 stun (maybe call it Disorienting Screech).

Just spit-balling here in the hopes that we can get some more love for one of my favorite (albeit, less powerful) support sets.

[Psyonico]

Clarity isn’t useless at all! It provides 2 things that Sonic Dispersion does not… sleep protection and +perception.  It not necessarily meant to be kept on everyone on the team at all times, but it does do those two things very well.  If you’re looking at fighting Arachnos (or heaven forbid, an 801 mission) that +perception is really good.

 

I’m looking forward to trying out my Sonic/Beam and my Sonic/Dark defenders once the new patch hits… I suspect that it will actually perform pretty well.

[Duckbutler]

I'm glad to find this thread. A Sonic/Dark defender is the result of my morning's thought experiment today. I was considering a Force Fields mastermind and then thought, "well, but the meta seems to be to add defense via IO sets and half the time I see FF come out it's just overkill."

 

For the most part I'm coming at this as a melee AT enthusiast because those ATs do well solo and I'm unwilling to sit still while I wait for a team. But I do appreciate having a team oriented character as well and I had a Fire/Thermal corruptor back in the day. I think she could use literally 2 powers from Thermal (the AoE heal and the debuff) to directly help herself. Sonic/Dark would probably be more independent than that otherwise pretty low benchmark. 

[MoonSheep]

On 1/31/2024 at 2:26 AM, Renatos1023 said:

It looks like the Devs were listening! The version on the test server now has a 150 second recharge. I think this will be a huge change for Sonic/.

 

I do think a couple of the other powers need to be updated or changed to truly bring the set in-line with others.

1. Clarity, in a set that has Sonic Dispersion, is useless and almost never taken. Maybe drop it to later in the set (say T8) and make it a decent single target buff ala Fortitude, but with +Res, +Perception, +Dam (but a longer recharge than Fort so it can't be easily perma, think Adrenaline Boost-ish).
2. Sonic Cage, I guess could be useful for people who don't hate intangible powers - but should at least be a toggle that lasts max 30 seconds that you can drop whenever (I still likely wouldn't take it but it would at least have some situational usefulness).
3. Sonic Repulsion, which is just plain useless. I think there needs to be another AoE/Cone -Res power, because that should be Sonic's forte. I'd make this that type of power. Maybe something in the mold of Fearsome Stare's cone, but with -15% Res and a mag 2 stun (maybe call it Disorienting Screech).

Just spit-balling here in the hopes that we can get some more love for one of my favorite (albeit, less powerful) support sets.

 

i agree with you regarding clarity. given sonic has no heal ability, it needs to offer something more dramatic than what it does now. clarity should become a mez protection version of Forge from thermal 

 

that, along with the changes to liquefy would make sonic a viable powerset

[drbuzzard]

I'm willing to be happy with the small sop they are tossing us with the liquefy change for the moment (I'd prefer 120 second recharge though). The set needs more love than that, but I get the impression that there's some innate fear or caution hammered into the power guys heads about resistance and -resistance being way overpowered. In general the players chase defense because it's easier and dodges payloads of debuffs on attacks, but resistance is the one that's harder to chase. 

[Renatos1023]

On 2/3/2024 at 8:18 AM, drbuzzard said:

I'm willing to be happy with the small sop they are tossing us with the liquefy change for the moment (I'd prefer 120 second recharge though).

 

I agree. I think Liquefy's recharge should still be lower, but I will take what I can get. I also think Sonic/ does need some more buffs. Which I have outlined above and in other posts. 

 

But I am re-rolling this Sonic/Seismic as a Sonic/Sonic because Meteor is a terrible nuke, and I just can't get past it. While thinking over this secondary change, it made me realize that the original Devs (and possibly the Homecoming ones too) were adamant that Sonic/ needed to be paired with /Sonic. /Sonic does fix the AoE -res gap that Sonic/ seems to have...but IMO this shouldn't be a consideration. Sonic/ should be effective as the -res king without /Sonic (just my opinion).