Minigun Power Set

[Rudra]

I'm proposing a new power set based (more or less) on the Assault Rifle set. Like the title says, it would use chainguns, gatlings, and other miniguns for the player's weapon models pulled from the various factions already employing such weapons. The proposal is something like this:

 

Tier 1: Short Burst (ST attack, -DEF)

Tier 2: Long Burst (ST attack, -DEF)

Tier 3: Spray Fire (Cone attack, -DEF)

Tier 4: Focused Salvo (Cone attack, narrower than normal, -DEF, KB)

Tier 5: Special Munitions (Change the damage type and possibly secondary effects of all other set attacks)

                    -or-

            Alternate Fire (Change to Low RoF [-DAM/+ACC all set attacks] or High RoF [+DAM/-ACC all set attacks])

Tier 6: Arcing Fire (Long range TAoE, minor damage)

                  -or-

            Precision Burst (ST, sniper attack)

Tier 7: Piercing Volley (Narrow ranged cone [as per Piercing Rounds attack], -RES)

Tier 8: Suppressive Fire (ST attack, Disorient or Cone, -ToHit)

Tier 9: 9 Yards (From "the full 9 yards" from when WWII aircraft would deplete their ammo stores. As per Full Auto)

 

The powers themselves and the order in which they appear on the list are subject to change. Damage not assigned because I'm not sure how to rate the proposed set's damage. This post is derived from: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/45106-chaingun-for-assault-rifles/

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to add missing bracket. And again to add alternate powers for consideration.

[biostem]

I wonder if, to give it a little more of a distinction from other such firearm sets, a sort of "variable fire rate" ability could be implemented, where lower fire rate would increase damage but lengthen recharge times, and higher fire rates would do the opposite, maybe even changing animation lengths as well...

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, biostem said:

I wonder if, to give it a little more of a distinction from other such firearm sets, a sort of "variable fire rate" ability could be implemented, where lower fire rate would increase damage but lengthen recharge times, and higher fire rates would do the opposite, maybe even changing animation lengths as well...

If it could be implemented, that would be a good substitute for the proposed Special Munitions. Though the lower fire rate should reduce the damage and the recharge while the higher fire rate should increase the damage and the recharge. If the replacement for Special Munitions, then the set could have its default fire rate and the player could use Alter Burst Timing to select Shorten Burst (for faster attacks at the cost of damage) or Extend Burst (for slower but more damaging attacks).

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to change power names.

[FupDup]

12 minutes ago, biostem said:

I wonder if, to give it a little more of a distinction from other such firearm sets, a sort of "variable fire rate" ability could be implemented, where lower fire rate would increase damage but lengthen recharge times, and higher fire rates would do the opposite, maybe even changing animation lengths as well...

The way I would do it IMO is to make the set like a ranged version of Titan Weapons. You start out slow but as you shoot more you "rev up" to a higher rate of fire. 

 

Before someone says it, yes I know that real life miniguns rev up instantly. I don't care. I want to be The Heavy. 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by FupDup

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, FupDup said:

The way I would do it IMO is to make the set like a ranged version of Titan Weapons. You start out slow but as you shoot more you "rev up" to a higher rate of fire. 

 

Before someone says it, yes I know that real life miniguns rev up instantly. I don't care. I want to be The Heavy. 

 

Works for me!

[biostem]

24 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Though the lower fire rate should reduce the damage and the recharge while the higher fire rate should increase the damage and the recharge.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but "lower fire rate" means fewer attacks per second, and "higher fire rate" means more attacks per second.  Giving the former more damage and the latter less damage would help balance that out, no?

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Though the lower fire rate should reduce the damage and the recharge while the higher fire rate should increase the damage and the recharge.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but "lower fire rate" means fewer attacks per second, and "higher fire rate" means more attacks per second.  Giving the former more damage and the latter less damage would help balance that out, no?

Yes, a lower rate of fire is less bullets per second, but unless you're changing the caliber of the rounds being fired to something larger as well, less bullets being fired in the same interval of time translates to less overall damage being inflicted by the weapon in question. So a lower rate of fire would translate to less damage whereas a higher rate of fire would translate to more damage, if done from the same weapon firing the same caliber of munition.

 

So it should be a lower rate of fire using the same munitions from the same weapon would result in less damage per attack or a longer recharge for each power. (Because you aren't firing as many rounds in the same interval, so the total volume of fire is less, being represented by the loss of damage or the worsening of recharge, possibly both.) And a higher rate of fire using the same munitions from the same weapon would result in more damage per attack or a faster recharge for each power. (Because you're putting more rounds on target in the same interval, so the total volume of fire is greater, being represented by the improving of damage, recharge, or both.) Since our weapons can't overheat or jam, I don't see any way anyone would ever choose the lower rate of fire since it would be a flat penalty for game play, but everyone would opt for the higher rate of fire because it would be a flat benefit for game play. So my approach to make them both desirable is to have the lower rate of fire do less damage but enjoy the better recharge (presumably because you have to reload less often or whatever) while the higher rate of fire does more damage but suffers a worsened recharge (because of reload or whatever).

 

Edit: Yes, I know giving the lower rate of fire a better recharge is counterintuitive and contrary to actuality, but for the sake of balance and making it so players will consider taking all the options, it is the only thing I can see doing since we aren't firing any larger or smaller rounds when we change our rate of fire. So I'm using damage to reflect the rate of fire and the recharge to offset whatever the damage does. You could do it the other way around, like you said, but it seems more accurate to me that since we are using a different rate of fire in a high-rate of fire weapon, representing it by the damage makes more sense, because our ability to use the weapon over a given set of time isn't really represented by rate of fire. Pretty much the damage is.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

if done from the same weapon firing the same caliber of munition.

 

Well, besides the general "for balance" reasons, I'd imagine some handwave to explain why the slower-firing chaingun would do more damage than the faster-firing one.  You could say the slower one uses higher-caliber ammo, or maybe it'd allow for more accurate or armor-piercing attacks.

[Rudra]

Dang it, I finished my edit as you popped your response....

 

Edit: To continue my previous edit.... (Sorry.) A minigun with a slower rate of fire would put out less rounds per second, but could still be fired at the same rate. Since you're firing bursts with the minigun, not single shots (to the best of my knowledge), the recharge isn't really affected by the rate of fire. You can fire a short burst and a long burst over the same amount of time regardless of the weapon's rate of fire, but the number of rounds fired would change in each of those bursts depending on the weapon's rate of fire.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

Hmm... maybe combine @FupDup's idea about a "spin-up" mechanic along with an overheat one to provide a combination of factors that allow's one to switch between a shorter duration but higher rate of fire with a lower rate of fire that can be prolonged.   You could further expand upon things by having mutually exclusive toggles, (let's call them ".30 cal" and ".50 cal" which further affect things like the damage, heat generation, spin-up time, and perhaps other effects, (like adding a minor stacking -res or -def debuff).  It may be too much to have going on at once, but could be fun if implemented correctly...

Edited November 16, 2023 by biostem

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Hmm... maybe combine @FupDup's idea about a "spin-up" mechanic along with an overheat one to provide a combination of factors that allow's one to switch between a shorter duration but higher rate of fire with a lower rate of fire that can be prolonged.   You could further expand upon things by having mutually exclusive toggles, (let's call them ".30 cal" and ".50 cal" which further affect things like the damage, heat generation, spin-up time, and perhaps other effects, (like adding a minor stacking -res or -def debuff).  It may be too much to have going on at once, but could be fun if implemented correctly...

Something like that could work. If you select the higher rate of fire, then your attacks do more damage per activation, maybe even have a faster recharge, but then you build up an overheat bar that locks out the power set for a set amount of time as the weapon jams until it cools off. What would the lower rate of fire do? Or are you proposing the set have an overheat bar/function regardless of selected rate of fire, but the bar builds up faster or slower depending on selected rate of fire?

 

(Personally, I think just take the proposed rev up mechanic, and have the high/standard/low rates of fire change damage with a countering benefit/penalty to keep them all attractive, and just forego any concerns about overheat and jams.) (Edit: Maybe instead of the weird use of recharge I had for balance, make low RoF grant -DAM/+ACC and have high RoF grant +DAM/-ACC?)

Edited November 16, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Or are you proposing the set have an overheat bar/function regardless of selected rate of fire, but the bar builds up faster or slower depending on selected rate of fire?

Yeah, basically .50 cal generates more heat in exchange for more damage or something... 

[arcane]

Please no. Let’s focus on ideas that aren’t redundant as hell. Like we still don’t have an Earth-themed support set for instance. But this? When we have Burst/Full Auto? No.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

Please no. Let’s focus on ideas that aren’t redundant as hell. Like we still don’t have an Earth-themed support set for instance. But this? When we have Burst/Full Auto? No.

I don't think the proposed set is redundant. Especially after the changes the thread has brought up. (And where does it say the devs can only consider one power set to implement? If you want an Earth-themed support set and it hasn't been proposed yet, propose it. [Edit: And even if one has been proposed, if you have a different take on it, even if only slightly, then propose that.])

Edited November 16, 2023 by Rudra

[Saiyajinzoningen]

5 hours ago, arcane said:

Please no. Let’s focus on ideas that aren’t redundant as hell. Like we still don’t have an Earth-themed support set for instance. But this? When we have Burst/Full Auto? No.

 

Redundant Ideas aren't necessarily bad ideas, case in point

 

 

[biostem]

7 hours ago, arcane said:

Please no. Let’s focus on ideas that aren’t redundant as hell. Like we still don’t have an Earth-themed support set for instance. But this? When we have Burst/Full Auto? No.

It's not an either-or scenario, though.  Have you put an idea for this "Earth-themed support set" out there, yet?  May the best ideas win!

[FupDup]

We kinda do have an "earth" support set in the form of Nature Affinity...but I know that you mean stone/seismic. Maybe one of its powers could give teammates Granite armor? IDK. Could probably use its own thread.

 

I still think a Minigun would be cool and could feel unique if it's designed in a way such that it's not just a machine gun reskin (i.e. ranged TW).