who does more damg - Brute at 50% Fury or a scrapper?

[Naturallymorbid]

So I'm a brute kinda a player but ive been thinking of trying out a scrapper (Fire/Bio) - so i was wondering who does more damage on average a brute at 50-60% fury (on average) or a scrapper?

[HelenCarnate]

If you are counting at lvl 50 having damage slotted then Scrapper due to crits.

 

Edit, now that I am home and have Pines up....

 

At the same level with both unslotted, the brute does equal damage to a scrapper at 25% fury for the same attack (there are some select differences but true for the most part).

 

With both having 3 lvl 50 damage IOs the brute does equal damage to a scrapper at 50% fury for the same attack. 

 

Neither of these includes crits and is just for base damage.  Around 65%ish fury will average out to be the same damage over time as a scrapper but the scrapper will have the occasional spike with crits but the brute will have higher regular damage.  All of this changes once both pop a few reds or have external damage buffs.  Then the scrapper pulls ahead until they reach their cap at +400% damage and the brute does not catch up until they nearly reach their damage cap of +675%.  Even then with crits, the scrapper does more over time.

 

So solo, if neither use inspirations they are around equal damage once the brute gets rolling.  With a good distribution of party buffs, the scrapper will pull ahead in damage but the brute will be more durable.

[Naturallymorbid]

Is there anything that increases the crit chance?

I'm trying to figure out  the average damage output

[jack_nomind]

Is there anything that increases the crit chance?

 

Some Scrapper powers have higher-than-usual crit chances, and the two Scrapper ATOs both interact with crits (one globally increases the chance by 3% and the other gives a proc that gives +50% briefly).

[HelenCarnate]

Is there anything that increases the crit chance?

I'm trying to figure out  the average damage output

 

Pines does have a setting for average damage and it does appear to factor in the increase chance if you have the Scrappers Strike slotted.

[XaoGarrent]

On paper, Scrapper. In practice, Brute.

 

The key here is consistency, and the fact that you're never going to have *just* 50% fury when you actually need it, cept maybe in the early levels when you can't afford to wantonly wade into things and you don't have full attack chains.

 

Scrappers rely too much on lolrandom to hit peak damage when you really need it, whereas Brutes frequently are in situations where they can acquire it at will, especially if you're on a large team that's moving fast.

 

Scrappers do have one thing going for them though: Their base damage is higher than that of Brutes. They don't have to work at all to reach an acceptable level of performance, nor do they have to obtain agro. If you *do* happen to get lucky and crit on the right power at the right time, it doesn't cost you anything either.

 

Scrappers are probably the lowest risk and effort for highest reward AT in the game, in most content, even if Brutes technically outperform them when pushed to the limit.

[DSorrow]

According to Paragonwiki, the melee damage scales used for Scrappers and Brutes are 1.125 and 0.750, respectively. Scrappers effectively have an 1.2375 modifier due to Critical Hit (10% chance for double damage). Let's consider a situation where we have an attack that does 100 base damage and look at some different scenarios:

 

Scenario	0% from Enhs	50% from Enhs	95% from Enhs
Scrapper, no crits	112.5	168.75	219.4
Scrapper, averaged crits	123.75	185.6	241.3
Brute, no fury	75	112.5	146.25
Brute, 50% Fury (+100% DMG)	150	187.5	221.25
Brute 90% Fury (+180% DMG)	210	257.5	281.75

 

With a standard 95% enhancement value for damage but no other damage buffs, a Brute starts beating Scrapper average damage at around 60-70% Fury. However, any +DMG buffs from other players such as a Kinetic or from your own /Shield or Build Up benefit Scrappers more than Brutes due to the higher base damage, unless you're buffed enough to reach the damage cap on both at which point the Brute should do more damage. While I haven't done the math, the Scrapper ATOs probably also give a bigger increase in DPS compared to the Brute equivalents, so comparing the two at limits of optimized builds probably slightly goes in the Scrappers favor when solo and slightly in the Brute's for teams.

 

Then there's obviously the playstyle thing: if you can't keep moving as a Brute you'll always lose to Scrappers in damage.

[jack_nomind]

According to Paragonwiki, the melee damage scales used for Scrappers and Brutes are 1.125 and 0.750, respectively. Scrappers effectively have an 1.2375 modifier due to Critical Hit (10% chance for double damage) . . .

 

. . .unless you're buffed enough to reach the damage cap on both at which point the Brute should do more damage.

 

logically extending those numbers to the damage cap (500% for Scrappers, 775% for Brutes) yields 618.75 for Scrappers (averaged crits), 581.25 for Brutes.

[marcussmythe]

Some powersets that give damage buffs (Shield, Bioarmor I know) give a larger buff to Scrappers than they do to Brutes - I anticipate that the Scrapper will ultimately do more damage.

 

Given the Brute’s advatage in hit points, res cap, aggro, and leveling smoothness (fury is huge in the early going) the fact that its close enough to even have a conversation lends clarity to why Brutes are such a popular Melee AT.

[Chance Jackson]

This has been rather eye opening, I guess I thought Brute base dmg was lower than it was.

[marcussmythe]

The Brute Base damage modifier is quite low for a 'damage dealing' AT, it is simply leveraged across the massive bonus supplied by Fury.  This has some unusual knock-on consequences - External Damage Buffs, or Debuffs, have a much smaller impact on a brute, inasmuch as most characters baseline around +100% Damage (from Enhancements) while the Brute is usually at around +250% or so (75% Fury, Enhancements).

[DSorrow]

According to Paragonwiki, the melee damage scales used for Scrappers and Brutes are 1.125 and 0.750, respectively. Scrappers effectively have an 1.2375 modifier due to Critical Hit (10% chance for double damage) . . .

 

. . .unless you're buffed enough to reach the damage cap on both at which point the Brute should do more damage.

 

logically extending those numbers to the damage cap (500% for Scrappers, 775% for Brutes) yields 618.75 for Scrappers (averaged crits), 581.25 for Brutes.

 

I had a vague recollection of brutes beating scrappers at their respective damage caps, but I didn't check that and it appears I was wrong.

[HelenCarnate]

According to Paragonwiki, the melee damage scales used for Scrappers and Brutes are 1.125 and 0.750, respectively. Scrappers effectively have an 1.2375 modifier due to Critical Hit (10% chance for double damage) . . .

 

. . .unless you're buffed enough to reach the damage cap on both at which point the Brute should do more damage.

 

logically extending those numbers to the damage cap (500% for Scrappers, 775% for Brutes) yields 618.75 for Scrappers (averaged crits), 581.25 for Brutes.

 

Without crits factored in Brutes do more damage at their cap.  Counting crits on average scrappers do more.  However they will probably be killing stuff around the same speed as many times that bonus crit damage is wasted on stuff that would have died without a crit or would have only had a sliver of health left.  AV/Hero fights are when the scrapper really does better as all the crits count and at most only 1 shot would be wasted.

I had a vague recollection of brutes beating scrappers at their respective damage caps, but I didn't check that and it appears I was wrong.  That being said, it is a whole lot easier to get a scrapper up to the cap than it is for a brute.