Looking down the road..... TRON: Ares

[Voltor]

9 hours ago, biostem said:

One thing Tron seemed to imply was that something of the original programmer "carries over" or otherwise influences the appearance and behavior of a program, so it could be as simple as the MCP creating a backup of itself, or even possibly "rectified" another program to its own ends...

 

That was Dumont talking to Dillinger about the spirit carrying over.  As to the programs, well TRON seems to convey the impression that nearly all the programs are AI and CAN think for themselves but they still have loyalty to their user.  MCP, Sark and their army all began to think for themselves and began to disbelieve and disregard the users.   TRON however while he does think for himself is dedicated to his user and then later FLynn and is a warrior program designed to secure and protect the Grid.

[Voltor]

13 hours ago, biostem said:

This, I think, is the biggest open-ended question;  Even if we handwave that you can convert matter into energy/code that can function in/on "The Grid", why would that impart super-powers to entities brought over from one realm to the other, (even ignoring whether programs can exist in the real world or not), we saw Flynn have powers within The Grid beyond what other programs can do, but at least there, it was a universe with its own laws...

 

Well Flynn comes from another world into the Grid so his senses would be altered.  Strictly speaking though in TRON, he WAS composed of energy and had  to drink energy to recharge himself along with RAM and TRON.  As such he could divert that beam of energy from the MCP, and also absorb energy from that guard of Sark and turn red, then later shift back to blue.  Something that I don't think TRON realized could be done as we would later see that in TRON Uprising and later with TRON becoming Rinzler.

 

Yet LEGACY seems to indicate it is a different dimension that they are sent to, but still as flesh and blood given that Sam did BLEED after being cut by Rinzler in the games.  If he was energy, should he not have energy sparking from that cut?  Also he is eating would looks like real food with his Dad, which would mean that FLynn has a garden?  Thus the premise of programs getting into our world becomes more possible if it is a dimensional shift rather then matter/energy conversion.

[Voltor]

 

Also the concept of programs getting into our world........I am now flashing back to the heavily inspired by TRON tv series AUTOMAN

 

 

Perhaps ARES goes on a rampage and TRON is brought in to stop him?  One can only hope

Edited April 9 by Voltor

[battlewraith]

On 4/7/2025 at 3:36 PM, Voltor said:

 

1. Can Quora live in our world?

 

I had assumed that she would not be able to survive indefinitely, at least not without major complications. This would have prompted Sam to reestablish the Grid and return with her to solve the issue. Then maybe Dillinger would’ve become involved as an antagonist after discovering the technological leap she represented.

 

Oh well…

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

On 4/7/2025 at 8:36 PM, Voltor said:

1. Can Quora live in our world?

IMHO, I would assume so. If not, Flynns Sr. and Jr. would not have been able to be reconstructed in the physical world after being digitised.

 

If you’re prepared to swallow that, it’s not that much of a stretch that Quorra - and then ARES - could be extrapolated from their data as humans. Whether Quorra adjusted well to the process is another matter - for example, would she have immunity from common diseases? Would she adapt well psychologically to living around humans?

As to whether or not they’d also have superpowers of some kind is “digital wizards did it” territory. But again, if you’re okay with Recognisers flying around in a way that bricks usually don’t…

[biostem]

17 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

would she have immunity from common diseases?

This is one of those areas where digging too deeply undermines a lot of suspension of disbelief.  I mean, what about her gut biome?  At least we could argue that there was some record how how things should be for the humans who traveled from the real world to the grid, but for beings born there?  Is the digitizer going to "invent" a suitable micro-biome for Quora?  Heck, even in the Fifth Element they had to take steps to acclimatize Leeloo to Earth's environment during her reconstruction...

[Voltor]

Flynn's abilities in TRON seemed to be more from being a User that was also a computer tech with training in science.  He knew a beam of energy could be deflected per the laws of science and he was able to absorb energy when he was drinking from that energy river that they found.  So he could absorb the energy of that beam from the MCP and channeled it through him to make the bridge for the solar sailer.

 

He did not have the knowledge or power to save RAM, and RAM's demise gave him extra motivation to help TRON.

 

He did seem to absorb the red energy of that guard he punched and later when TRON found him he shifted back to blue.  However when a program swears loyalty to the MCP, they get turned red.   What made this unique was that Flynn could do it on his own, likely his being held by the arm by TRON let him tap some blue energy to make the change.

 

in TRON Legacy, Flynn built the Grid, the buildings and the programs.  So he would basically have root/admin access like when he accessed the controls in the falling elevator, and when he tried to reprogram that guard, and humorously whacked it in the head to get it to comply with his orders.  He now had the knowledge and power to help injured programs and thus could save Quorra.  However he seemed to also be able to exert his will and slow down and freeze programs for when they raided the bar and saved Sam. 

 

CLU2 us a user/program hybrid AI.  He can repurpose or destroy programs, but as an AI with Flynn's knowledge up to his time of creation he wouldn't necessarily have Flynn's other talents or perhaps the understanding on how to use them.   Also he seemed unable to adapt and learn to new situations such as the arrival of the ISOs. He thought they were imperfections and thus threats to the Grid. His mandate was to create the perfect system and he sought to do that.   We later learn in the awesome TRON UPRISING Cartoon, that CLU2's attack on TRON and Flynn was more to get TRON out of the way so that he could do his ISO purge.    There are rumors that had Season 2 of Uprising happened(Disney you really screwed up by cancelling this show!), it would have been revealed that TRON being from the original Grid was going to play a factor in the plot.  Also that TRON may not have been freed by Beck from the repurposing chamber in time.....

 

CLU2 knew of TRON's capabilities since he was FLynn in a way, but since CLU2 had the ability to destroy programs and being a user/program hybrid, that likely already put him on par with TRON, and all the troops that TRON destroyed in that attack was meant to wear him down so CLU2 could take him.  At the end of Legacy, TRON's mind was returning and he was caught by surprise by CLU2 and sent to the sea where he would completely reboot and turn blue again.

[Techwright]

On 4/12/2025 at 7:03 PM, Voltor said:

   There are rumors that had Season 2 of Uprising happened(Disney you really screwed up by cancelling this show!), it would have been revealed that TRON being from the original Grid was going to play a factor in the plot. 

 

If Ares proves a hit, there's always the possibility of Disney revisiting the idea of season 2.  They already released the long-delayed season 7 of Star Wars: The Clone Wars, and X-men '97, both to critical and popular acclaim. 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Okay... we have a new trailer... and the first Nine Inch Nails single in five years.

Truth to tell, I'm not sure if I'm going to the 'plex for this.

 

BUT OH DAMN I HAVE A MIGHTY NEED FOR THAT ALBUM.

NOW.

INFECT MY CODE WITH IT.

BRING ME MY PVC CORSETRY, INDUSTRIAL EYELINER AND UNWIELDY BOOTS that probably don't fit after howeverdamnlongthatwas I MUST STOMP WILDLY ON A DANCEFLOOR WHILE IGNORING THE PLEADINGS OF SADBOIS. 

THERE MUST BE COLLATERAL DAMAGE FROM MY RANDOM FLAILING KARATE MOVEMENTS...

...ahem. Yes. Need.

 

Edited July 21 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

On 7/21/2025 at 8:50 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Okay... we have a new trailer... and the first Nine Inch Nails single in five years.

Truth to tell, I'm not sure if I'm going to the 'plex for this.

 

 

Well, the trailer definitely gives more information, and hints largely at something...

Spoiler

The previous trailer made it sounds like the reds had, on their own, found a way into the Users world, and were dominating in the war that ensued.   I hated that idea because the Users were always dominant over the Programs.  However...

 

This trailer hints that someone has found and is abusing the tech that allowed crossing between the two worlds, and even more so, has found a way to recreate the programs repeatedly in our world.  I suspect that human is Ed Dillinger's (villain from the first movie) son.  I can get behind that more thank what I previously knew, because a User is tweaking the recipe, so to speak.

 

The reveal of Flynn makes sense, but might not be 100%.  If you look at the visuals,  "Flynn" appears to be translucent around the edges.  This may just be some snazzy digital world fashion, or it may imply that Flynn was forever changed in the culminating event of the second film.  I'm wondering if he's now in the Obi-Wan Kenobi role:  a ghost in the system.  (Pure speculation at this point).  His interest in Ares's personal struggles has me wondering:  might Ares be, or becoming, an ISO, the sentient program species of which Quorra was, supposedly, the only survivor of Clu's genocidal purge.   If the ISO storyline is woven into this, Tron: Ares will likely feel a lot more connected to the first two films than I was first led to believe.  I do feel the loss of Bruce Boxleitner to the franchise (he stated he was done with it) to be a loss considering every movie is called after his character, TRON.  I also want to know what's up with Sam Flynn and Quorra.  It seems weird that the two characters living in the User world who know more about the digital world than anyone else on this side of things would stay off the radar.

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Thought:

Spoiler

12 hours ago, Techwright said:

His interest in Ares's personal struggles has me wondering:  might Ares be, or becoming, an ISO, the sentient program species of which Quorra was, supposedly, the only survivor of Clu's genocidal purge. 

So far, the full cast list isn't released, so Sam and Quorra may show up ex machina (or maybe in machina).

 

Also, we may have some clues on the track list of that album I have A MIGHTY NEED for...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron:_Ares_(soundtrack)

 

Forked Reality makes it sound like this is a copy of Flynn's Grid software which has been edited, rather than the original Grid that's been subject to a hostile takeover.

(Though that scene seems to be in there too: it's possible the ARES programs were created in a private mini-Grid, then unleashed on it later...)

 

And if the new, militarised Grid Dillinger built is forked code from (or a hostile takeover of) Flynn's Grid, there's every possibility that the same "glitch" - that even Flynn was amazed by - will start creating ISOs spontaneously, or infecting the ARES programs with its directives. Life finds a way, even digitally.

 

As for Ghost In The Machine... wonder if you're onto something?

And given Flynn re-integrated CLU at the end of Legacy... is it just Flynn, or a combo deal?

 

[Techwright]

4 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Thought:

  Hide contents

So far, the full cast list isn't released, so Sam and Quorra may show up ex machina (or maybe in machina).

 

Also, we may have some clues on the track list of that album I have A MIGHTY NEED for...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron:_Ares_(soundtrack)

 

Forked Reality makes it sound like this is a copy of Flynn's Grid software which has been edited, rather than the original Grid that's been subject to a hostile takeover.

(Though that scene seems to be in there too: it's possible the ARES programs were created in a private mini-Grid, then unleashed on it later...)

 

And if the new, militarised Grid Dillinger built is forked code from (or a hostile takeover of) Flynn's Grid, there's every possibility that the same "glitch" - that even Flynn was amazed by - will start creating ISOs spontaneously, or infecting the ARES programs with its directives. Life finds a way, even digitally.

 

As for Ghost In The Machine... wonder if you're onto something?

And given Flynn re-integrated CLU at the end of Legacy... is it just Flynn, or a combo deal?

 

 

Responses:

Spoiler

Your idea of a second grid is intriguing.  The programs have got to come from somewhere, since, seemingly, Flynn's grid was wiped at the end of the second movie.  That said, the destruction may only have been localized, and Tron's last moments in that film suggest he will carry on.  Which makes me wonder...

...is Ares actually the Tron code, perhaps again compromised.  The trailer indicated Ares to be the greatest warrior, a title given to Tron in the first movie, and his compromised form in the second.  This would give Disney an out to continue the character with Boxleitner being too old for the physicality of the role (and perhaps having a fallout with Disney. Unclear on that).

 

Your idea of a second grid having the same ISO-creating glitch has merit in context, therefore.

 

I swear, I had no idea of the music titles when I suggested a ghost in the machine.

I hadn't mentioned it, but the idea of a Flynn-Clu hybrid did occur to me.  So we're kind of on the same page about this.  I wonder if this Flynn can flip from light to dark and back?

 

Not sure how to keep Garrett and Olivia hidden from the news hounds sniffing around the filming areas on this one, but a surprise return of their characters would be welcomed.

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Thoughts continued:

Spoiler

  

12 hours ago, Techwright said:

The programs have got to come from somewhere, since, seemingly, Flynn's grid was wiped at the end of the second movie.  That said, the destruction may only have been localized, and Tron's last moments in that film suggest he will carry on.

The explosion is only supposed to have taken out the wilderness area and the portal, not the cities.

Sam also backed up the system (and I'm sure Flynn was a good enough programmer to have other backups), so there was at least one copy of the original Grid kicking around. He also took over ENCOM.

 

That leaves a number of questions:

• Did Sam create a new Grid for the ISOs to live on?
• How does Dillinger Jr. get hold of ENCOM in the intervening years - or is he heading up a new corporation?
• Did Dillinger get the code and molecular-assembly tech directly from ENCOM/Sam via hostile takeover, or steal it - either from ENCOM or Flynn's Arcade?
  (And does this matter?)
• Or maybe... they did mention it's a reboot. Is the whole movie a Forked Reality/What If? type scenario?

 

[Techwright]

8 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Thoughts continued:

  Hide contents

  

The explosion is only supposed to have taken out the wilderness area and the portal, not the cities.

 

 

 

While I don't doubt you on this point, I don't recall it being mentioned in the movie.  Is there a canon source to confirm that?  The novelization, perhaps?

 

EDIT:

 

Oh, and a reboot...not to my liking.  A story continuation has always been my desire, even if it requires another generation, even if the Flynns, Alan, and Lora are all phased out and new people are introduced to the Grid.  (I would have said a re-cast of actors, but then the whole TRON saga has its foundation in early 1980s tech, so recasting doesn't really make sense, unless they're going the James Bond route, where 5 actors portray the same character supposedly active from 1963 to 2000.)

 

EDIT EDIT:

While writing up the edit, I looked up the cast from the original TRON, and discovered that Peter Jurasik, the legendary "Londo Mulari"  from Babylon 5, played the Program named Crom.   Cool!

 

 

Edited Thursday at 05:11 PM by Techwright
added content

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

The specific location of the portal is the Sea Of Simulation (first named by Wendy Carlos in her soundtrack notes, and then picked up by various comic books such as TROn: Betrayal.). It forms a barrier between the main Grid and its cities and the Portal, lest any hapless programs accidentally find their way to the Portal.

 

As shown in the ending, it's also big enough to absorb the Portal's explosion, which hangs in the air like a new star.

(Also, logically... if the Portal crash had wiped the whole Grid... what did Sam take a backup of?)

 

[Dynamo-Joe]

2 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

As shown in the ending, it's also big enough to absorb the Portal's explosion, which hangs in the air like a new star.

(Also, logically... if the Portal crash had wiped the whole Grid... what did Sam take a backup of?)

 

That's an excellent point! 

[Voltor]

Seen the trailer, so my impression is that the character in the beginning has basically modernized the concept of the old TV show AUTOMAN and can bring computer programs into our world.  EDIT: also if AUTOMAN was not inspired by TRON then I'm from the moon

 

Then throw in the usual renegade AI plotlines and an AI that wants to live and be more human. and Jeff Bridges back as the wise old Kevin FLynn like he was in Legacy,

 

And you get a movie that is continuing a plot point from Legacy about programs entering our world, yet the movie appears to be disregarding Legacy.

 

 

Edited Friday at 10:31 AM by Voltor

[Techwright]

7 hours ago, Voltor said:

Seen the trailer, so my impression is that the character in the beginning has basically modernized the concept of the old TV show AUTOMAN and can bring computer programs into our world.  EDIT: also if AUTOMAN was not inspired by TRON then I'm from the moon

 

So tempted to ask how you breathe and find nourishment up there 😁, but, yeah, Automan was clearly a horrible knock-off of TRON.  Thank you so much for reminding me of that show.  I needed to use up the last of my bottle of brain bleach before it past expiration date.

 

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

51 minutes ago, Techwright said:

I needed to use up the last of my bottle of brain bleach before it past expiration date.

I remember quite liking that show... when I was about 6, and the UK only had 3 TV channels.

 

(Saturday teatime/5:30pm was basically the Stephen J. Cannell Hour, so pretty much any of the Weirdo Fights Crime stuff you remember from that era - Fall Guy, Automan, A-Team, Knight Rider, Street Hawk, Airwolf... even Manimal got thrown in there. I think the only one of the nostalgia set we missed out on was TGAH.)

 

Side note... given all the other reboots they've had, why no Manimal?

Edited Friday at 07:03 PM by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Voltor]

3 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

I remember quite liking that show... when I was about 6, and the UK only had 3 TV channels.

 

(Saturday teatime/5:30pm was basically the Stephen J. Cannell Hour, so pretty much any of the Weirdo Fights Crime stuff you remember from that era - Fall Guy, Automan, A-Team, Knight Rider, Street Hawk, Airwolf... even Manimal got thrown in there. I think the only one of the nostalgia set we missed out on was TGAH.)

 

Side note... given all the other reboots they've had, why no Manimal?

 

 

Most of those shows were fun then and now, though some have not aged well.

 

As to a reboot of Manimal.......I think I'd rather see a reboot of Street Hawk, Airwolf or even Super Force.

[Techwright]

54 minutes ago, Voltor said:

 

 

Most of those shows were fun then and now, though some have not aged well.

 

As to a reboot of Manimal.......I think I'd rather see a reboot of Street Hawk, Airwolf or even Super Force.

Airwolf definitely, though unless they set a reboot in the 1980s, I'm not quite sure how a mach 1 helicopter would fair in a world of GPS targeting, lasers, precision spy satellites, fifth-generation fighters, and drone swarms.  However, I can absolutely see a modern Airwolf getting the stealth technology look and treatment.  

 

As to Manimal, it only had 8 episodes, which was considered a failure, and apparently that consideration continues to this day.  It has a 22% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, though a more generous score of 6.5/10 on IMDB, despite our generation of long-time fans.

 

If they ever do bring Manimal back, then I hope they also look to bring Otherworld back, which also lasted only 8 episodes.  The show had such potential, though it could use a little tightening.  If you've not seen it, the premise was a touring family in Egypt accidentally activated a technology that should not have existed, sending them to a parallel Earth (apparently of a different map, though) where the civilization is Fascist, several decades advanced over home Earth, and all the family has to go on are legends of a marked path that past home Earth travelers used to get to a return portal.  There's a lot more than that, but that's the fun of the, unfortunately short, show.