Enemy design

[ZamuelNow]

In working on my older arcs to revive them for Homecoming, I acknowledge that a lot of things have changed since Live.  When not being experimental (which I will do sometimes), what are best practices for minion/lt power design to keep them relatively balanced and give an okay amount of XP (even if it's not 100%).

[Clave Dark 5]

I recall advice form Live (I think?) to be careful with armors as they can become beasts way too easily, something like that.  The advice was to basically not give them hardly any, which is what I usually go for.  I found this useful:  https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Mission_Architect_Custom_Units

[Maris]

Mmm, I admit I tend to prefer to design mobs on the harder side (especially since I mostly do them for arcs that folks'll run through in teams)

But some personal philosophies/preferences I use, which some might disagree with? 

-- Use duplicate, weaker minions so any with specialized abilities/debuffs appear in small numbers in spawns
-- Know who you're making your enemy group for, and test them accordingly. Personally, I think that it's fine to go a bit heavy on buffs/debuffs if you're making enemies for the 40-50/incarnate crowd. I'd argue that having a few standout enemies designed to give players trouble in specialized ways (ie debuffs, self-rez, control) as long as you have them appear in relatively small numbers is a good move, priority targets make an enemy group interesting and memorable and discourage pure facerolling.

 

[Clave Dark 5]

6 hours ago, Maris said:

-- Know who you're making your enemy group for, and test them accordingly. Personally, I think that it's fine to go a bit heavy on buffs/debuffs if you're making enemies for the 40-50/incarnate crowd. I'd argue that having a few standout enemies designed to give players trouble in specialized ways (ie debuffs, self-rez, control) as long as you have them appear in relatively small numbers is a good move, priority targets make an enemy group interesting and memorable and discourage pure facerolling.

I like pretty much everything here, but also note that I usually tend to aim for easy-as-possible designs.  I want everything to go smoothly as can be and not chase anyone out of the story, which is my main focus.  I'm told I've failed that before though ha ha (see mission currently in sig).

[Maris]

32 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I like pretty much everything here, but also note that I usually tend to aim for easy-as-possible designs.  I want everything to go smoothly as can be and not chase anyone out of the story, which is my main focus.  I'm told I've failed that before though ha ha (see mission currently in sig).

Ah, fair enough! Some people have accused my tendencies in mob design of being moderately, uh, sadistic.

Edited February 17 by Maris

[Maris]

I will also say, I think for mission bosses you plan on tying dialogue and ambushes to, in order to slow down the pace of delivery of dialogue and/or arrival rate of ambushes, it's often a good idea to make them EBs and/or slap a resistance set on them. Give the player time to read the lines rather than having everything get spat out at once with a couple heavy hits.

Edited February 17 by Maris

[cranebump]

For customs, I go by the % showing when I select powers, shooting for 100% for every critter in the range. Powers are apropos for the group. Which means I have no problem throwing debuffs, if something like Rad or poison make sense. If enemies are smart, or well funded/supplied, you’d expect them to have effective countermeasures against supers, as well. I mean look at Malta. 
 

Of course, one way to stay “balanced” is to make heavy use of in-game enemies.

[Maris]

Yeah, I agree with Crane.

[Ankylosaur]

My approach

 

• Minions - I tend to keep the minions as mostly offense - no buffs or debuffs, and unless there is a reason for a special armor or a blaster secondary, I often just use invulnerability and the non toggle powers as a secondary to give them light resistances with no effect on appearance. Maybe a Dull Pain. 
• LTs - are usually more interesting with controller/defender types showing up with buffs and debuts
• Bosses - vary based on the theme of the mob but tend to be offense again and have an armor set to go with
• Allies - tend to make them EBs so they survive if there is a big group - and they tend to only appear when there are AVs - but I am not all that consistent on that. In an arc I am working right now I might have some Lts who allies

 

Like Cranebump I go for 100% so people can get the full XP - however, on Homecoming, they bumped up what was needed to get to 100% making custom mobs tougher than before - I think this was related to farming.

Edited February 18 by Ankylosaur

[ZamuelNow]

1 hour ago, Ankylosaur said:

however, on Homecoming, they bumped up what was needed to get to 100% making custom mobs tougher than before

 

Ah, so that's what I'm seeing.  I think I can work with it but I guess I won't know until republishing.  Incarnates will throw the balancing for a loop with anything in high level ranges.

[Vic Raiden]

I tend to keep minions basic, with just basic attacks and maybe a shield or non-annoying single-target debuff power on some rare ones. Lieutenants, they're typically either expanding on respective minion types or getting more gimmicky stuff like flight or ally buffs. Bosses, though, that's where I go crazy as long as it suits the faction's overall theme.

[Ultimo]

From years of playing pen and paper RPGs, I came to the realization that the enemy shouldn't be a lot stronger (ie. do damage) than the hero characters.  If they are, there's nothing for the heroes to DO to react to the events of the battle.  I mean, if you're oneshotted, you can't do anything to respond.  Your teammates can't do anything to respond.  It takes away the GAME.  So, I usually try to restrict enemies to having powers that don't do too much damage.

 

On the other hand, that means you need them to be more DURABLE, so they can inflict the necessary damage over a longer period of time.  So, I do put armours on the enemies, where it's appropriate.  I also always give them at least one ranged attack, even if they're mainly a melee character.  It's fine if they ONLY have ranged attacks, because those can still be used in melee, but if they only have melee attacks, they become trivial to characters who can stay out of reach.

[Clave Dark 5]

It's been noted that if you say give a foe some mix of ranged and melee, then set them for "melee only" or vice versa, they won't use the other too often; this can be useful to get their experience given to that 100% - always a concern yeah, I'd never give players foes to defeat that only pass out say 50%! 

 

I believe I saw this work with mezzes as well: a mezz or two would get used, but not like every attack.  I never used this to try and rig the game like a fire farm or anything though, but I imagine some have.

[cranebump]

Agree with @Ultimo that durability for bosses is a biggy, if you want them to hang in there a while. Also, your boss tier setting makes a difference as to how they appear in mish, depending on player settings. For example, an AV will appear as an EB for players who don't have AV settings on (I believe--someone can fact check me on that). Remember, too, that something like an AV should have AV resistances in there somewhere (again, someone fact check me--I'm going on anecdotal evidence along here). 

 

On the whole, though, your average player running an AE story mish is probably not running them to level up. I always assume an exemplared toon, and a vet (since they've run everything else). So I expect them and their character to be pretty adept. I don't worry too much about them getting debuffed or being in, you know, actual danger. Mind, I don't go out of my way to make things tougher. But, as I stated, above, smart foes will prep for superpowered incursions. This should include the occasional nasty surprise.*

 

Long story short: I wouldn't be afraid to challenge the players. They get plenty of rolling stompfests in the default game. They shouldn't be surprised (or pissed off) if they have to make use of an insp somewhere along the line.

 

*In some cases a surprise to me, like a group I had with a limited number of lieutenants in it, running vs. a full team. There were singularities everywhere. I ended up going back in to diversify the offering, because it really was simply annoying, rather than challenging.

Edited February 19 by cranebump

[Maris]

 

12 hours ago, cranebump said:

Agree with @Ultimo that durability for bosses is a biggy, if you want them to hang in there a while. Also, your boss tier setting makes a difference as to how they appear in mish, depending on player settings. For example, an AV will appear as an EB for players who don't have AV settings on (I believe--someone can fact check me on that). Remember, too, that something like an AV should have AV resistances in there somewhere (again, someone fact check me--I'm going on anecdotal evidence along here). 

 

On the whole, though, your average player running an AE story mish is probably not running them to level up. I always assume an exemplared toon, and a vet (since they've run everything else). So I expect them and their character to be pretty adept. I don't worry too much about them getting debuffed or being in, you know, actual danger. Mind, I don't go out of my way to make things tougher. But, as I stated, above, smart foes will prep for superpowered incursions. This should include the occasional nasty surprise.*

 

Long story short: I wouldn't be afraid to challenge the players. They get plenty of rolling stompfests in the default game. They shouldn't be surprised (or pissed off) if they have to make use of an insp somewhere along the line.

 

*In some cases a surprise to me, like a group I had with a limited number of lieutenants in it, running vs. a full team. There were singularities everywhere. I ended up going back in to diversify the offering, because it really was simply annoying, rather than challenging.

Honestly, I 100% agree with this.

Edited February 20 by Maris

[Maris]

To give an example -- in an arc I made, I had it end with a 3-phase AV fight, with each phase having different custom powers. I designed it, intentionally, to be challenging for the player, because I reason that I had built this boss up, throughout the entire arc, as a major, serious threat, and while I didn't want it to be annoying to fight, I also wanted the player to feel it and feel like they'd emerged from a serious, grueling battle. 

[Ultimo]

On 2/18/2024 at 9:23 PM, Clave Dark 5 said:

It's been noted that if you say give a foe some mix of ranged and melee, then set them for "melee only" or vice versa, they won't use the other too often; this can be useful to get their experience given to that 100% - always a concern yeah, I'd never give players foes to defeat that only pass out say 50%! 

 

I believe I saw this work with mezzes as well: a mezz or two would get used, but not like every attack.  I never used this to try and rig the game like a fire farm or anything though, but I imagine some have.

This is true.  I made a boss villain based on Darkseid, so he has a powerful ranged attack, but I made him melee, so he uses his melee powers most of the time.

[Ankylosaur]

Another little note - I find Dominator assault sets make for great a offense option as they mix themed melee and range. And now if Arsenal is in there, can finally have someone who can carry a gun and punch while still being able to give them a secondary.