Which Widow & Why? (the skimpy version)

[Scarlet Shocker]

I'm about to have to make my mandatory respec on my Widow as she gets to level 24

 

I played one on live, but that was long ago and unmemorable even then but I'm having a boat load of fun on our regular weekend meets on Indom.

 

So I looked in here to see if I could decide what path to take and I'm feeling battered by walls of text.

 

I usually play ranged characters but I notice that my tactics are often to start at range then close to melee - I do that a lot with blappers and also controllers and I'm having fun with her in her "fresh out of the box" build.

 

So which path is best from here on in, and of course, why?

 

Brief numbers are ok and interesting but I simply do not have the attention span to cope with chapter and verse and deep dive number crunching. What I want from here is why pick a path, what it gives me and how it makes it enjoyable.

 

If I need to know more then I can follow up here but let's keep it nice and light! Thanks!

[twozerofoxtrot]

48 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

So I looked in here to see if I could decide what path to take and I'm feeling battered by walls of text.

 

Very fair, this speaks heavily to how customizable the post-24 Widow experience is.

 

49 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I usually play ranged characters but I notice that my tactics are often to start at range then close to melee

 

In that case, I'd recommend two of three main themes.

 

1) If you're likely to sink a lot of money and time into build optimization, a hybrid Claws/Psi Fortunata (commonly called a Blood Widow build) is a heck of a lot of fun to play. You'll take some melee blade attacks for critical-enabled, punchy strikes and some of the more damaging Psi attacks. Also recommend Gloom and Dark Oblit from Soul Patron Pool. Feels very much like a blapper; less damage overall of course but you'll have softcapped position defenses to balance. 

 

2) If you're unlikely or uninterested in a big, expensive build that eeks out versatility, then a pure Psi Fortunata with flight and softcapped ranged defense is a lot of fun. Taking Fate Sealed (a new power) on this build helps it feel a bit like a Blastroller. I've been playing one of these since the last update and it's quite effective. 

[Scarlet Shocker]

35 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Very fair, this speaks heavily to how customizable the post-24 Widow experience is.

 

 

In that case, I'd recommend two of three main themes.

 

1) If you're likely to sink a lot of money and time into build optimization, a hybrid Claws/Psi Fortunata (commonly called a Blood Widow build) is a heck of a lot of fun to play. You'll take some melee blade attacks for critical-enabled, punchy strikes and some of the more damaging Psi attacks. Also recommend Gloom and Dark Oblit from Soul Patron Pool. Feels very much like a blapper; less damage overall of course but you'll have softcapped position defenses to balance. 

 

2) If you're unlikely or uninterested in a big, expensive build that eeks out versatility, then a pure Psi Fortunata with flight and softcapped ranged defense is a lot of fun. Taking Fate Sealed (a new power) on this build helps it feel a bit like a Blastroller. I've been playing one of these since the last update and it's quite effective. 

 

I'm unlikely to sink a fortune into it, simply because I've never had a fortune in inf to spend. It takes me a long time to be able to afford optimized builds, I'm not often playing just for the money so to speak.

 

On my SoA, I went the straight up Huntsman route, middle path all the way and he turned out to be devastating and even remade here still very effective, remaining one of my fave toons and consistently delivering a screen of orange digits. I vaguely recall trying the same on my Widow on live and being extremely disappointed but your info is very useful thanks.

[KaizenSoze]

Fort sounds more like what you want, but Night Widows are also super fun with page 7.

 

I find them to be a more fun version of a stalker with ranged attacks and durability approaching at least brute levels.

 

Start with Psychic Scream at range, placate, pick a target and hit it with a crit melee attack.

[Scarlet Shocker]

15 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Fort sounds more like what you want, but Night Widows are also super fun with page 7.

 

I find them to be a more fun version of a stalker with ranged attacks and durability approaching at least brute levels.

 

Start with Psychic Scream at range, placate, pick a target and hit it with a crit melee attack.

I do like the idea of being super survivable 🙂

 

[Glacier Peak]

5 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I do like the idea of being super survivable 🙂

I've got two builds on my Widow. If I had another fortune to spend, I would have three builds. Each build has a uniquely tailored purpose that it is exceeding good at. The closest thing to a shortcoming or weakness is on my Night Widow, dealing with runners. I have to take an EPP immob to deal with AVs running when I solo them. 

Edited April 7 by Glacier Peak

[KaizenSoze]

16 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I do like the idea of being super survivable 🙂

 

Is soloing the ITF and AE 801.3 survivable good enough?

[Glacier Peak]

54 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Is soloing the ITF and AE 801.3 survivable good enough?

I got to Romulus, but he kept running and I ran out of patience lol

[Scarlet Shocker]

Do any versions of the Widows have a decent hold? I tried to solo LGTF on my SoA and he failed at Hami but otherwise breezed the rest of it

[KaizenSoze]

5 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I got to Romulus, but he kept running and I ran out of patience lol

Both Rommy fights where so annoying. Also, twitting away at that lethal/psi resistant computer.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Rommy does tend to run because he's a coward. Give a coward Nictus and he's still a coward needing lots of robots to do the job properly

 

[KaizenSoze]

10 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Rommy does tend to run because he's a coward. Give a coward Nictus and he's still a coward needing lots of robots to do the job properly

 

This is one of the downsides of Night Widows solo, runners. High defense, means lots of mob misses, plus debuffs and dots, equals mobs beating feet really quickly.

 

Placate helps a bit, provoke helps quite a bit more. Fort don't have such a problem, because control can stop mob. Especially, with Fate Sealed making the secondary effect happen 100% of the time.

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 4/7/2024 at 11:10 PM, Scarlet Shocker said:

Do any versions of the Widows have a decent hold? I tried to solo LGTF on my SoA and he failed at Hami but otherwise breezed the rest of it

 

Fortunatas have a ST and AOE hold, both.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Thanks that's useful @twozerofoxtrot

 

I think what I want is something between a blapper and a troller, good controls but enough damage to be worth noticing.

 

I'm gonna need Dominate and Total Domination, but the rest I'm a bit confused about. But given I've got effectively two sets of powers to choose from... it's a puzzle.

 

What pools and PPP work well? Do I need a Patron pool or would I be better getting an APP? (Can I actually get one?)

 

Any advice gratefully received.

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Thanks that's useful @twozerofoxtrot

 

I think what I want is something between a blapper and a troller, good controls but enough damage to be worth noticing.

 

I'm gonna need Dominate and Total Domination, but the rest I'm a bit confused about. But given I've got effectively two sets of powers to choose from... it's a puzzle.

 

What pools and PPP work well? Do I need a Patron pool or would I be better getting an APP? (Can I actually get one?)

 

Any advice gratefully received.

Gloom/Dark Obileration is very good you want some non lethal/psi damage.

 

Mu is good if you need AOE damage.

 

Some folks really like Mace: Shatter armor, but I don't.

 

Levi is better than before, but still needs work.

Edited April 11 by KaizenSoze

[Scarlet Shocker]

2 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Gloom/Dark Obileration is very good you want some non lethal/psi damage.

 

Mu is good if you need AOE damage.

 

Some folks really like Mace: Shatter armor, but I don't.

 

Levi is better than before, but still need work.

 

I often take Lev on my controllers. I just love the character of the powers and usually they have a useful "oh shit" button, but seems not here

[Scarlet Shocker]

Got her to 24 and just respecced

 

Mostly range at the moment. It's confusing to know what to take. I discovered I've got a 50 widow too so I will compare and contrast as they say.

 

Since I'm going for a Fortunata, what should I be looking for? What makes a good one as opposed to a mediocre one? I'm not thinking here necessarily about specific slotting of specific powers but more "general principles". I have no doubt I will respec her before she is put away for good

[twozerofoxtrot]

6 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

"general principles"

 

Be survivable enough to do damage. 

• Most easily done via Defense; either ranged/aoe with flight or softcapped all positionals.

Maintain high recharge. 

• Allows more damage and control.
• Getting Link Minds permanent; see above.

Damage is better than control; doing both at the same time is best.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I guess that prompts the next question which is how does that differ from other forms of Widow?

 

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I guess that prompts the next question which is how does that differ from other forms of Widow?

 

You can go all ranged on a Fort, great durability, but you lose a lot of damage.

 

IMO for best results. Go mostly melee with a dash of controls. Melee attack hit much harder than Fort ranged attack and you will want to be in melee for Psychic Wail.

 

Take both Follow Up and Build Up.

[twozerofoxtrot]

6 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Melee attack hit much harder than Fort ranged attack

 

Major caveats here for proc'd Dominate and proc'd Tornado; the latter has surprisingly good proc rates and outdamages set-slotted Spin handily.

 

6 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

you will want to be in melee for Psychic Wail.

 

And Aura of Confusion, which is so much better than Total Domination it's hard to overstate. With Contagious Confusion proc slotted, it can single-handedly turn an in-progress TPK into a victory. 

 

7 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I guess that prompts the next question which is how does that differ from other forms of Widow?

 

The 1-24 Widow experience is like a weak Night Widow. Night Widows don't engage in Controls at all, though they do support the team through leadership toggles and Mind Link. The principles discussing controls aren't relevant to non-Forts.

[Scarlet Shocker]

2 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

... it can single-handedly turn an in-progress TPK into a victory.

 

I don't understand this part. Please elaborate

[KaizenSoze]

27 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

I don't understand this part. Please elaborate

Fire Aura of Confusion and pretty much every mob will start attack each other. Taking the pressure off the team.

[KaizenSoze]

3 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Major caveats here for proc'd Dominate and proc'd Tornado; the latter has surprisingly good proc rates and outdamages set-slotted Spin handily.

 

 

And Aura of Confusion, which is so much better than Total Domination it's hard to overstate. With Contagious Confusion proc slotted, it can single-handedly turn an in-progress TPK into a victory. 

 

 

The 1-24 Widow experience is like a weak Night Widow. Night Widows don't engage in Controls at all, though they do support the team through leadership toggles and Mind Link. The principles discussing controls aren't relevant to non-Forts.

You are correct. I was trying to avoid getting into proc as Scarlet said keep it simple. 🙂

[Troo]

On 4/7/2024 at 2:48 AM, Scarlet Shocker said:

If I need to know more then I can follow up here but let's keep it nice and light! Thanks!

 

Fun to see you widowing.

 

I love my Stalkers. Brutes, Tanks and Corruptors are so fun and effective. But if I HAD to pick only one AT to play it might just be a Widow rather than Stalker. They are like a mashup of the four mentioned.. which in itself is crazy. Widows have the flexibility to be tough and do respectable damage while also supporting the team and can solo just fine.

 

Widows can bend to a players preferred style. Scrappy in the face of your foes face or keeping a little distance.

 

On top of that, there's a choose your path aspect that, with multiple builds on a character, can become multiple characters in one.

 

Melee vs Ranged has some risk / reward, which I appreciate, where ranged might do a little less damage. Both can have high survivability. Choices, consequences, experimentation. Does someone want to lean ranged or melee or a bit of both. ( I'm a bit of both )

 

 

Below Kaizen alludes to a simple differences for high level builds which is still applicable with average slotting.

Which way should someone choose? You'll notice the answer is not there. It can be a preference choice: What is fun for the player?

On 1/29/2024 at 4:08 AM, KaizenSoze said:

Notes about the delta between page 7 Night Widows and Fortunatas.

 

Night Widow *now* can out DPS Forts in ST Pylon tests. This was not true before page 7, which was sad.

 

Forts will out damage Night Widows in terms of speed and total damage due to Psychic Wail and the ability to stop runners with controls.

 

Night Widows are significantly more durable than Forts. Even more so with page 7.  I mean I solo'ed the ITF at 4x8 in melee w/o dying. A Fort would have a massively harder time doing that.

 

Also helpful in an overall way:

On 1/29/2024 at 6:39 AM, Koopak said:

I can confirm though, if you try to go ranged dps for fort, you should be prepared to be unimpressed. It'll be better after the patch but not by much. Dominate is the only ranged power that meaningfully competes with the claw attacks. Scramble thoughts will after the patch, but that's really it. Ranged attacks do less damage by design

 

 

Edited April 12 by Troo
Wow, more words than I intended..