brasilgringo Posted April 17 Posted April 17 (edited) How would something like this work? Didn't see a point in the MM attacks even for the -Regen considering /Cold Dom (Benumb, etc.). Static Discharge is probably not needed to be slotted but I figured I'd try to proc it out for some AOE. Mastermind (Robotics - Cold Domination).mbd Edited April 17 by brasilgringo
tidge Posted April 17 Posted April 17 I can't see the build (no MIDS), but I recommend against trying to do damage with MM attacks, especially with %damage. My reasoning: MMs have a very hefty endurance cost associated with attacks Slotting attacks for %damage generally means sacrificing set bonuses that will be useful for a MM (such as Endurance management) I'll guess that the build includes Hasten to get Benumb and Heat Loss up as much as possible (as well as benefiting %damage)... I consider Hasten to be a trap for many AT, but especially IMO for MMs... YMMV. The trap is that it includes an Endurance drop itself, and that it also leads to spamming powers, which cost more Endurance. If I was building a Robotics/Cold, I would plan on these secondary powers: T1 Ice Shield (few slots, possibly just globals) T3 Snow Storm (to grab aggro and slow, similar to how I use Caltrops) T4 Glacial Shield (few slots, possibly just Globals) T6 Arctic Fog (team will need DEF, so either a set bonus or a mix of Shield Wall pieces) T7 Benumb (probably just Recharge, maybe accuracy if Tactics isn't improving ToHit enough) T8 Sleet T9 Heat Loss I would not skip MM Robotic attacks on principle. I'd take Pulse Rifle Burst at level 2, and squeeze in Photon Grenade. The Sudden Acceleration and Annihilation sets offer decent Endurance management bonuses, with a side of %-Res and soft control (knockdown). I want the -Regen on certain enemies.
brasilgringo Posted April 17 Author Posted April 17 (edited) Thanks for feedback. MIDS build-export seems bugged or I'd export it in text. With Heatloss up most of the time, I don't expect Endurance to be an issue post level 30. I'll carry blues and purples for exemp'd TFs etc. I think I need one extra PPP power after charged armor to get electrifying fences, so that's why I went with Static Discharge vs. using an MM attack. I think cold has so much -Regen already in Benumb I didn't think the MM attacks would make much of a difference? I always found Snow Storm too slow to activate and burdensome to use - never took it on any of my /Cold corrs or Defenders. YMMV. Edited April 17 by brasilgringo 1
bellona100 Posted April 18 Posted April 18 The way I opened the attachment is: open Mids', then click File>Open>Downloads>Mastermind (Robotics... Patch Notes: Issue 27, Page 5 Robotics Pulse Rifle Blast, Pulse Rifle Burst, and Photon Grenade These powers all now apply a -200% regeneration debuff Pulse Rifle Blast cast time lowered from 1.87s to 1s Pulse Rifle Burst cast time lowered from 1.87s to 1.1s Repair (now Maintenance Drone) Power has been replaced by Maintenance Drone. Maintenance Drone will use its own health to heal your other robots. It can't be healed and does not regenerate HP. Once it depletes its health, it will self destruct dealing minor damage. This power no longer accepts Endurance Modification enhancements or sets. Equip Robot Now grants passive resistances to henchmen. Can be enhanced by slotting the power with resistance sets and enhancements. Upgrade Robot Now grants Repair to Protector Bots Can be enhanced by slotting the power with Healing sets and enhancements. Henchmen Cast Times trimmed across the board (including personal attacks) Assault Bot no longer applies -regen, this effect is now applied by the Mastermind personal attacks. Henchmen have had their list of powers revamped, adding a few new powers to improve overall damage. Protector Bots summon power no longer accept heal enhancements. Henchmen no longer have resistances out of the box, Equip Robot is needed to get them. I like how you have the whole debuffer thing going on! And you have a plan on how to manage your End. You need to choose an Alpha slot. That affects the build a lot and lets you plug some holes or enhance some things. Skip Snowstorm. I like how you skipped Maintenance Drone, but strongly dislike how you slotted Protector Bots. You're missing one of the important MM uniques - Superior Command of the Mastermind: +AoE Defense Aura. I suggest taking a slot out of Hasten and placing it in Health, then plugging in a Miracle: +Rec. It will help a bit with End. Also, get rid of that Gaussian's... in Tactics, that is not going to do anything for ya. I would take that Annihilation proc out of Static Discharge and place a simple Range IO in there. You will get more reach with the cone slotted that way.
brasilgringo Posted April 18 Author Posted April 18 (edited) Thanks for the tips! I think the MM +15% AOE Def IO was left out because (i) it wasn't in the Merc/FF slotting I used for pets, and (ii) I wondered if I could get to >45% Melee / Ranged / AOE def on the pets without it, between Ice Shields, Protector Bot shields, and the 2 x 5% all-defense Pet IOs slotted. I will have to check in-game after building this. I could pull the Gaussians out of tactics and slot it as Miracle into Health, as you suggested. I figured Gaussians wouldn't help much and kind of just parked the slot there for now. On Static Discharge, good point and I can give up the slow-resist set bonus from Superior Frozen Blast and slot instead a +3 Acc/Dmg Nucleous and a +3 Dam/Range D-Sync. I'll move the slow-resist into SS and the stealth into a sprint. I didn't take incarnates on this build because IMHO my MMs generally all take the same for Alpha (Musc) and either Degen or Reactive for Interface. Is there an alpha you think is particularly more effective for Bots/Cold? Mastermind (Robotics - Cold Domination) v2.mbd Edited April 18 by brasilgringo
AmrasNotHere Posted April 18 Posted April 18 1201 hp, works well in 4 star, solo AV hunting and +4/8 regular content as well, and hits 38-40% defense on positional when you have your protector bots out. Mastermind (Robotics - Cold Domination).mbd Build Benchmarks
tidge Posted April 18 Posted April 18 10 hours ago, bellona100 said: Also, get rid of that Gaussian's... in Tactics, that is not going to do anything for ya. I would take that Annihilation proc out of Static Discharge and place a simple Range IO in there. You will get more reach with the cone slotted that way. I agree that a Gaussian's %BuildUp isn't doing that much for a MM. As I wrote, my attitude is that the MM should act more as a force multiplier (so, debuffs) and less as a damage dealer. I ended up with this slotting for Tactics, to help with target finding, but if +Perception is less important one slot could go elsewhere. Similarly, The Kismet +ToHit piece isn't necessary if the MM is slotting powers for Accuracy (while getting set bonuses). Level 30: Tactics (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton (Endurance / ToHit / Defense Buff): Level 53 (*) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up Rectified Reticle - Increased Perception Re: AoE, Range is IMO less important than trying to pile on %-Resistance for the Robotic Henchmen. My Robotics slotting is, I believe: Spoiler Level 1: Battle Drones (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up: Level 50 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets (*) Sovereign Right – Accuracy/Damage (*) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus Level 2: Pulse Rifle Burst (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy/Damage (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Endurance (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Recharge (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Recharge Level 6: Equip Robot (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (*) Unbreakable Guard - +7.5% MaxHP Level 8: Photon Grenade (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage (*) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime Level 12: Protector Bots (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Hami-O Defense/Endurance (53 or a Defense piece at 50+5) (*) Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus (*) Call to Arms: Defense Aura for Pets (*) Call to Arms: Accuracy/Damage Level 18: Maintenance Drone (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb Level 22: Assault Bot (A) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance, +Resist (All) +Regen(Pets): Level 50 Level 26: Upgrade Robot (A) Healing IO: Level 50+5
kelika2 Posted April 18 Posted April 18 On 4/17/2024 at 11:44 AM, brasilgringo said: Didn't see a point in the MM attacks even for the -Regen considering /Cold Dom (Benumb, etc.). In WoW we had this option for damage meters that was Merge Pet Data with Owner Data I do not know why that mentality does not transfer to other MMOs. This really fucking infuriates me. (You the player) are controlling (a mastermind). Its total damage done. not just your pets. Yeah you are probably shooting for 10 damage at level 2 or 4 or whenever you took your attacks but your pet is probably hitting for 5-8, sure you will get more of them but their levels will go down as you get more pets. +Recharge does not effect pets, but it effects your attacks. when IOs start becoming a thing for a character i can cycle those two attacks easily. Now to your actual build. Heat Loss to me is this weird power that sounds super useful and super powerful but its not. It has a real long cooldown and its available way too late. level 27 is when all IOs can start being slotted and thats aprox the time when peoples endurance issues start to fade. And at 50 people have all the incarnate stuff from Cardiac to Agility to Ageless to not worry about end. Unless you are fighting enemies with -end/recov. I been skipping it Frostwork itself was also never really appealing and I never felt godlike when someone uses it on me Between base slot Maint Drone and base slot Upgrade Robot that was plenty enough healing. Equip Robot also seems way overslotted as well. Second to lastly, Tactics has been overhyped since issue 6 for masterminds. Between your inherent and slotting you should be at max hit rating for your pets. Turn it off, make a combat tab with pet damage for awhile to see. Also please note when fighting +5(or higher) there is no overcoming that gap. Your tier1s will never get back to 95% even with sleet/tactics applied I personally dont like Mids because it takes too long to fill out for just passing by questions but it looks like you got bored at level 44 and said fuck it throw whatever whenever shakira reference
brasilgringo Posted April 18 Author Posted April 18 This is what I'm testing. Once it is incarnated out, I'll see how pylon times line up vs my Mercs/FF. Mastermind (Robotics - Cold Domination) v3.mbd
tidge Posted April 18 Posted April 18 3 hours ago, kelika2 said: Second to lastly, Tactics has been overhyped since issue 6 for masterminds. Between your inherent and slotting you should be at max hit rating for your pets. Turn it off, make a combat tab with pet damage for awhile to see. Also please note when fighting +5(or higher) there is no overcoming that gap. Your tier1s will never get back to 95% even with sleet/tactics applied Tactics raises the perception radius for the henchmen. Mileage may vary, but I rather like the henchmen noticing enemies slightly further out. As the robots are ranged attacker, I feel like this makes a big difference. As for the +ToHit features ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . I try to make sure that the henchmen have decent enough ToHit chances via their own slotting of course.
Jacke Posted April 19 Posted April 19 10 hours ago, tidge said: Tactics raises the perception radius for the henchmen. Mileage may vary, but I rather like the henchmen noticing enemies slightly further out. As the robots are ranged attacker, I feel like this makes a big difference. As for the +ToHit features ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . I try to make sure that the henchmen have decent enough ToHit chances via their own slotting of course. Tactics is also needed, even if just the Base Slot, to get the Henchmen hitting often enough. The vast majority of Pets, including all MM Henchmen, do not benefit from the Caster's Global ToHit and Global Accuracy bonuses; MRB has this wrong (and is such a huge bug it can't be fixed). MM Henchmens' attacks also have a mix of 1.0 and 1.1 Base Accuracy. Thus a MM build needs to follow both of my workaround suggestions for builds with Pets to get their final ToHit chances close to or at 95% in +4L content (which because the Pets don't get the Global Level Bonuses from Incarnate powers is actually +4 to the Pets): The Pet Summon Power needs to be slotted with ED-capped Accuracy, 94 to 96%. If important Pet attacks have under 1.2 Base Accuracy, the build also needs Tactics; even just a L50+5 ToHit/EndRed IO in the Base Slot works wonders. Remember! Let's be careful out there! City Global @Jacke, @Jacke2 || Discord @jacke4913 @TheUnnamedOne's BadgeReporter Popmenu Commands Popmenu including Long Range Teleport Available Zones Finding Your City Install Root on Windows for HC Launcher, Tequila, Island Rum
tidge Posted April 19 Posted April 19 MM Henchmen will benefit from Supremacy. I tend to value hitting, so I don't try to cut Accuracy and ToHit to finely. That is, if I end up with "more than necessary" for the first tier of henchmen because of Tactics, I don't sweat it. As I wrote above, the extra perception is a bigger deal for me.
TheSpiritFox Posted April 19 Posted April 19 On 4/18/2024 at 8:10 AM, AmrasNotHere said: 1201 hp, works well in 4 star, solo AV hunting and +4/8 regular content as well, and hits 38-40% defense on positional when you have your protector bots out. Mastermind (Robotics - Cold Domination).mbd 44.05 kB · 3 downloads I havent made a Bots/Cold OP, and Im working atm so I cant give you a solid breakdown of your build and all the bad choices in it, but I looked at this and other than 5 slotting health and 6 slotting stamina (I would not do either of those things, ever, on any toon) this is a build very close to what one I would make would look like and is a solid starting point.
brasilgringo Posted April 19 Author Posted April 19 1 hour ago, TheSpiritFox said: I havent made a Bots/Cold OP, and Im working atm so I cant give you a solid breakdown of your build and all the bad choices in it, but I looked at this and other than 5 slotting health and 6 slotting stamina (I would not do either of those things, ever, on any toon) this is a build very close to what one I would make would look like and is a solid starting point. Thanks for feedback. This build you cited though wasn't mine.
TheSpiritFox Posted April 19 Posted April 19 22 minutes ago, brasilgringo said: Thanks for feedback. This build you cited though wasn't mine. No I was citing the other persons build as a "Look at this this is much better slotting choices for this powerset and looks alot like a build I would make" I dont have a build myself to show you, and I dont have time to like detailed go over all the math, too much thinking with divided attention. 1
AmrasNotHere Posted April 20 Posted April 20 On 4/19/2024 at 9:32 AM, TheSpiritFox said: I havent made a Bots/Cold OP, and Im working atm so I cant give you a solid breakdown of your build and all the bad choices in it, but I looked at this and other than 5 slotting health and 6 slotting stamina (I would not do either of those things, ever, on any toon) this is a build very close to what one I would make would look like and is a solid starting point. I really hope you actually put something together to highlight all the bad choices in it. It would help if you roll up with a build to show what you'd change to put some structure behind what you think "all the bad choices" actually are with details to give your statement any kind of further meaning. If you're only looking at the buff/debuff numbers when you're citing the math then I hope you're able to look passed that some day. Please feel free to take this specific build and go in whatever direction to "fix" it to your liking or go in a completely different direction. Here's a pinch of my thought process on where I could still make changes, but I'm highly satisfied with the current performance of it in all levels of gameplay so I likely won't make any of these changes myself. Finding another way to milk out additional hp, accuracy, and global recharge with the allotted slots would be the best way to go about imo. If you would simply replace it with performance shifter and the health specific /regen/end/recovery mule slotting, I would rather keep the 5 piece panacea over the mule slotting personally. You could then take the 3 slots opening from stamina and pop 2 of them into sleet and replace everything but the Achilles for a 5 slot rag. That would be my main consideration here for where I could go. Re-slotting into additional defense% would be a waste for me, relocating the slots into resistances could be beneficial if you are specifically a solo player who intends to jump straight into the mobs to face tank but that's not going to help your bots gameplay. Also I have provoke in this build for lols specifically for an all mastermind omega kong attempt (yeah we're that crazy here). I'm not 5/6 slotting them for the benefit of more stam or regen. The sets put in those 2 powers serve an actual purpose that benefits /cold power recharge as well as the overall accuracy of the build and the overall hp pool of your bodyguard mode as well as save me from having to put another purp set in. It leads to 2.5% less recharge and 6% more acc to your personal powers if you want to make the change that was considered. If you want to relocate them to milk out 15% recharge, 3.3% health, and 9% accuracy elsewhere that is by the discretion of the builder if you could manage to meet all the other points hit and that I would actually be interested in seeing. You could r 5 slot brawl for heca to preserve sleet and photons slotting, and pinch slots from other powers. This would let you drop your provs from benumb if you don't have any in your storage. My point is that there's plenty of direction you can go in based on personal preference. Suggesting that things are bad choices without elaborating on them doesn't help teach those who don't know how to build yet anything nor provide any useful points to those that do. Build Benchmarks
Videra Posted April 20 Posted April 20 (edited) This build is honestly really solid as a baseline, and I wanted to change some stuff - but keep the bulk of it the same. To explain my alterations: Frostwork is significantly less useful on a Mastermind due to how fragile pets are to begin with. In theory it would help with Assault Bot, but Protector Bots and Battle Drones will still get vaporized by a stiff breeze - I find maintenance drone as an active heal that slowly depletes itself over time more reliable for the given value of mitigation it gives. The Attacks: I personally would value 400% -regen over two proc'd MM attacks. I also feel that the 10% RCH bonuses from Apocalypse and Ragnarok are more impactful because - while most MMs can ignore Recharge, largely - it's actually helpful on Cold. 5 PC prev med in Upgrade Robot: I was blanking on where to put the spare slots. You could probably drop the status/regen unique in the level 6 upgrade to get preventative medicine's six piece RCH bonus. Teleport for Vengeance: LOTG #5 is self-explanatory, Vengeance is also useful in teams. Edit: Fuck, I didn't notice that you put five LOTGs in already. Build editing without Adderall is pain. Put procs into Protector Bots, maybe. Put explosive strike in there, and the command of the mastermind aura. Edited April 20 by Videra Edit: I'm an idiot 1
tidge Posted April 21 Posted April 21 8 hours ago, AmrasNotHere said: I really hope you actually put something together to highlight all the bad choices in it. I'm not the person you were asking, but I'll point out what I immediately don't like about the screenshot you posted above: 1) 6-sloting stamina with Power Transfer (or anything really). The bonuses from the set can be had in other ways, using fewer slots. 3 slots in Stamina, max. 2) %damage all-over-the-place. MMs need their henchmen to do damage; MMs should not try to be damage dealers with their powers... especially not on single-target attacks. I see what I consider to be wastes of slots and/or missed opportunities to get more/better enhancement set bonuses. 3) Provoke... and also the way it is slotted. Provoke requires a ToHit check, and it has a maximum target cap IIRC of 5 critters. I is better to lob an AoE attack (that hits) at a group to try to grab aggro. Slotting it with only (what I am guessing is) a %Psi damage is an especially bad choice. 4) I don't like Hasten on MMs on the principle of "Endurance burn", but I could accept it *IF* the build has (aside from the henchmen powers) ONLY powers that take longer than 45 seconds to recharge after slotting. 5) The Miracle piece in Upgrade Robot is not a good spot for it. It will only give the MM the benefits, and only for 120 seconds after casting it. A Health IO is all that is needed here. Some subtle points that I'd investigate, but I think indicate some incomplete thinking A) Using the Kismet +ToHit piece. It only benefits the MM, and generally I feel that alternate slotting of attacks that would include accuracy is better (see 2, above) ... so maybe this is trying to overcome the accuracy problem with the %damage approach. Even if so... this feels like "throwing good enhancements after bad slotting". B) I'm not a fan of the Defense slotting. Equip Robot can Mule Resistance pieces, Arctic Fog is (IMO, YMMV) a good place for 6xReactive Defenses, Shield Walls can be boosted and can go in another power. C) When using Unbreakable Guard, I try to use 2-, 4-, and sometimes 5-pieces (if worried about Toxic/Psi damage). One piece in something Dark Embrace shows me that power isn't being treated seriously because it isn't enhancing the power and also getting a 2-piece set bonus D) I am not crazy about the henchmen slotting... but that is easy to test with unslotters. 1
victusfate Posted April 21 Posted April 21 (edited) Happy to share my bots cold which has worked very well so far (just a handful of vet levels) The bots and my team are very hardy with all the +def, and stacked sleet + heatloss melts tough enemies quickly. Props to a proc'd out infrigidate too, its a solid damage and debuff power combined. AA_ZeroKBots_BotsCold_Mu.mxd Edited April 21 by victusfate
AmrasNotHere Posted April 21 Posted April 21 11 hours ago, tidge said: I'm not the person you were asking, but I'll point out what I immediately don't like about the screenshot you posted above: 1) 6-sloting stamina with Power Transfer (or anything really). The bonuses from the set can be had in other ways, using fewer slots. 3 slots in Stamina, max. 2) %damage all-over-the-place. MMs need their henchmen to do damage; MMs should not try to be damage dealers with their powers... especially not on single-target attacks. I see what I consider to be wastes of slots and/or missed opportunities to get more/better enhancement set bonuses. 3) Provoke... and also the way it is slotted. Provoke requires a ToHit check, and it has a maximum target cap IIRC of 5 critters. I is better to lob an AoE attack (that hits) at a group to try to grab aggro. Slotting it with only (what I am guessing is) a %Psi damage is an especially bad choice. 4) I don't like Hasten on MMs on the principle of "Endurance burn", but I could accept it *IF* the build has (aside from the henchmen powers) ONLY powers that take longer than 45 seconds to recharge after slotting. 5) The Miracle piece in Upgrade Robot is not a good spot for it. It will only give the MM the benefits, and only for 120 seconds after casting it. A Health IO is all that is needed here. Some subtle points that I'd investigate, but I think indicate some incomplete thinking A) Using the Kismet +ToHit piece. It only benefits the MM, and generally I feel that alternate slotting of attacks that would include accuracy is better (see 2, above) ... so maybe this is trying to overcome the accuracy problem with the %damage approach. Even if so... this feels like "throwing good enhancements after bad slotting". B) I'm not a fan of the Defense slotting. Equip Robot can Mule Resistance pieces, Arctic Fog is (IMO, YMMV) a good place for 6xReactive Defenses, Shield Walls can be boosted and can go in another power. C) When using Unbreakable Guard, I try to use 2-, 4-, and sometimes 5-pieces (if worried about Toxic/Psi damage). One piece in something Dark Embrace shows me that power isn't being treated seriously because it isn't enhancing the power and also getting a 2-piece set bonus D) I am not crazy about the henchmen slotting... but that is easy to test with unslotters. See this type of response at least has some reasoning. I think the biggest thing that keeps getting overlooked in my short description of the initial post is "works well in 4 star". The indication of incomplete thinking warrants a response to break down all of your points now. Also a reminder that it's posted to encourage the original poster to think outside the box. I'm not telling them to live by this build in any way but I will 100% debate why I've made my slotting choices to educate. 1 more thing, if you would like I could make a build that is just for Solo, AV hunting, and +4/8 general content to ease your brains about the madness that is 4 star if you would like. You would have all the dmg capabilities here and face roll your keyboard to your hearts content. 1) I'm going to beat this dead horse to the end it seems, I've already gone through why it's 6 slotted and the alternative slotting options if you desire to investigate that by scrolling up. I too generally won't do more than 3 slotting stam in most cases but this build requires a much larger hp/global rech/acc as I can squeeze out for the benefit of taking hits and using my /cold powers in 4 star, but is also still very viable outside of 4 star content. 2) There is literally only 1 damage percent set bonus coming straight out of battle drones. If you're talking about how the mm attacks themselves have damage percent, then I'm totally dismissing your point if you are failing to see that the acc checks on said attacks are high enough to compensate less acc bonus. 3) Provoke... I can't just try to grab the AV attention, I need to grab the AV attention for this specific build. I have 93.5% to hit check on the AV so I through the chance for psi damage proc as a LOL but could toss an acc/recharge if I had to. This is specific to being the taunt on a team with no taunt. 4) "I don't like Hasten on MMs on the principle of "Endurance burn", but I could accept it *IF* the build has (aside from the henchmen powers) ONLY powers that take longer than 45 seconds to recharge after slotting." This is hilarious, dismissing as well. 5) That's a numi piece in upgrade, and I recommend you test it in action. "Some subtle points that I'd investigate, but I think indicate some incomplete thinking" A) There is no % damage approach, the kismet is specifically there for the overall acc on powers so that I can do silly things like put procs into the mm attacks and infrigidate to the moon. This is 100% intentional, please refine your thinking. B) It's a great place for reactive, but I want the hp bonus out of arctic fog, and I could have tossed the steadfast into equip but the 13.1% resist benefits myself and the team more than just my bots that likely will be dead during a 4 star (except for assbot of course). C) Dark Embrace only needs the +HP in my case, when you start to get to advanced mode building you will start to see why 🙂 I also use 2-4 pieces in a lot of my builds but it's unnecessary in my approach. D) I highly recommend testing out the henchmen slotting. I'd be interested to see what you would change to make it capable of being useful in 4 star still based off your feedback. I would love to dissect your slotting choices. Build Benchmarks
tidge Posted April 21 Posted April 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, AmrasNotHere said: 1) I'm going to beat this dead horse to the end it seems, I've already gone through why it's 6 slotted and the alternative slotting options if you desire to investigate that by scrolling up. I too generally won't do more than 3 slotting stam in most cases but this build requires a much larger hp/global rech/acc as I can squeeze out for the benefit of taking hits and using my /cold powers in 4 star, but is also still very viable outside of 4 star content. I'm not buying the argument that this is especially fine-tuned build for 4-star content, simply because: Dark Embrace isn't slotted to help the MM take hits Protector Bots aren't slotted with Defense Also, if this was tuned for 4-star, As I wrote: I would expect that instead of all the %damage in the MM attacks, that there would be more emphasis on set bonuses. As written above Infrigidate is a great power for %damage... but this is a Robotics Mastermind, with 6 henchmen all making ranged attacks. The MM doesn't need a %damage single-target attack to improve performance. Keep the slotting for %-Resistance, because that can be a force multiplier.... but those extra slots are IMO wasted. There is another subtle point about %proc (wherever it is slotted): Code review had shown that in addition to an attack (on a target) requiring a ToHit check, that in addition to the %proc chance itself (based on inherent attributes of the power, and the power's recharge time) that each %proc that fired required it's own ToHit check based on the accuracy of the power. Global Accuracy and ToHit bonuses don't factor into this. This ToHit check belongs to the %proc; I believe it is set up this way in the code so that the %damage procs don't "autohit" in certain powers (for example, Taunts). I mention this because if a player is trying to leverage %damage, they ought to make sure that the powers also have accuracy slotted in them, especially if fighting higher-level enemies. EDIT: I want to add that I think that the @Videra build (using similar philosophy of powers to what @AmrasNotHere seems to want) strikes me as being a more effective one. It doesn't quite have the build as I would, but it has kept the powers as asked. It appears to be more effective across more content, including "hard mode" teaming. Edited April 21 by tidge
tidge Posted April 21 Posted April 21 2 hours ago, AmrasNotHere said: I'd be interested to see what you would change to make it capable of being useful in 4 star still based off your feedback. I would love to dissect your slotting choices. Here is where I would roughly start. I even included Hasten! Spoiler Primary Power Set: Robotics Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery ------------ Level 1: Battle Drones (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up: Level 50 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets (*) Sovereign Right – Accuracy/Damage (*) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus Level 1: Infrigidate (A) HamiO:Lysosome Exposure: Level 53 (*) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff Level 2: Pulse Rifle Burst (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy/Damage (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Endurance (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Recharge (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Recharge Level 4: Ice Shield (A) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance: Level 50+5 (*) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All) (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed (*) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50+5 (*) Resist Damage IO: Level 50+5 Level 6: Equip Robot (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (*) Unbreakable Guard - +7.5% MaxHP Level 8: Photon Grenade (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage (*) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime Level 10: Glacial Shield (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3% (*) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50+5 (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 12: Protector Bots (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Hami-O Defense/Endurance Level 53 (*) Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus (*) Call to Arms: Defense Aura for Pets (*) Call to Arms: Accuracy/Damage Level 14: Fly (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points) Level 16: Hover (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 18: Maintenance Drone (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb Level 20: Arctic Fog (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage Level 22: Assault Bot (A) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen: Level 50 Level 24: Maneuvers (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure: Level 53 (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 26: Upgrade Robot (A) Healing IO: Level 50+5 Level 28: Tactics (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure: Level 53 (*) Rectified Reticle - Increased Perception Level 30: Sleet (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage (*) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff Level 32: Heat Loss (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5 (*) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 35: Scorpion Shield (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage Level 38: Mace Beam Volley (A) O-Force - Damage/Knockback to Knockdown (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage (*) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff Level 41: Benumb (A) Accuracy IO: Level 50+5 (*) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5 (*) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 44: Hasten (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5 (*) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 47: Snow Storm (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 49: Group Fly (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%) Level 1: Brawl (A) Empty Level 1: Sprint (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth Level 2: Rest (A) Interrupt Reduction IO Level 2: Swift (A) HamiO:Microfilament Exposure Level 2: Health (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance (*) Panacea - Heal: Level 50+5 (*) Miracle - +Recovery Level 2: Hurdle (A) Jumping IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Stamina (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End (*) Performance Shifter - EndMod (*) Power Transfer - EndMod (*) Power Transfer - %Heal Caveat: I got down to the last few powers so I just dropped in some Flight pool powers. Mileage varies, I rather like having Group Fly for some of the the Hard Mode stuff. I tried to indicate which enhancements I would boost, and which ones would be attuned. there is a a little bit of a game-of-inches aspect here. I don't value +Regen on low HP characters, so I almost never go for 2x (or more) LotG set bonuses. Annihilation is used all over the place because I want to stand a good chance at extending the duration of -Resistance, especially against spawn areas. I also like the other set bonuses it brings. The MM ATOs are already providing four times the 10% +Global Recharge, so only one Very rare set could be added to benefit for that bonus. I've experimented with Web Envelope with Robotics; I have found it to be an inferior choice to Mace Beam Volley (with %-Resistance) for all content. Some self-critical comments follow: Specially for Hard Mode, I would want Frostwork in the build to help some ally. I was going to explicitly drop Hasten, but as that is a non-starter for some folks, that was a compromise. I find that better-crafted Allies don't need it, but you can't predict what others will bring to a play session. I'd probably swap it in at level 49. I full recognize that there ought to be a noticable effect on the recharge times of some of the very long powers... so *I* would start with Hasten 2x slotted and then see if I really needed it (and if it really needed 2 slots). MMs tend to burn Endurance hard, so I tried to get MaxEnd, Endurance Discount, and Recovery bonuses. One EndMod in Stamina may not be needed ...or not providing that much extra Recovery... I would use an unslotter to test performance and maybe free up a slot. The +Perception in Tactics is a Quality-of-Life decision I make for Robotics, because I personally value more perception when looking for specific enemies. That slot could be moved elsewhere. I tried to leverage the ally shields to provide benefits for hard-mode teammates, but I haven't tested these... except using a cold Corruptor... so the slotting on them could be tweaked. The Robotic Henchmen are probably fine with just the auras and Supremacy effects, and may not need much extra (resists) from the shields... I absolutely would test using unslotters to find what works best here. as I wrote, I am mostly imagining a teammate bringing a somewhat lacking build to the hard mode that I would need to help. I'm flexible about knockback, but with the AoE area stuff going on, it probably makes sense to keep the Knockdown choice in mace Beam Volley. I don't sweat the little remaining knockback in the henchmen attacks.
Shin Magmus Posted April 21 Posted April 21 I'll toss my hand in to help too. Here's my Necro/Sonic MM build for reference. The 1st priority in power order for me was getting the 3 bonus pets out, and so for Bots something equivalent would probably be Repair Drones (and the Plasma Burn attacks if you take em). Once I had that, I took my full 3 Leadership auras as quickly as was reasonable without sacrificing key powers from my secondary. Most of the build is just optimal proccing in attacks/pets, and having to squeeze those damned Aura IO's in (the 2x Def and 2x Res auras that have been discussed). Totals are pretty bad, but MM build totals are always bad because MMs slot so many things that only benefit their pets (which detract from your personal set bonuses, and thus your totals). Hopefully this additional data point helps you. 1 Treating everyone fairly is great; unfair discrimination is badwrong! I do not believe the false notion that "your ignorance is just as good as my knowledge." The Definitive Empathy Rework
brasilgringo Posted April 21 Author Posted April 21 (edited) 22 hours ago, Videra said: This build is honestly really solid as a baseline, and I wanted to change some stuff - but keep the bulk of it the same. To explain my alterations: Frostwork is significantly less useful on a Mastermind due to how fragile pets are to begin with. In theory it would help with Assault Bot, but Protector Bots and Battle Drones will still get vaporized by a stiff breeze - I find maintenance drone as an active heal that slowly depletes itself over time more reliable for the given value of mitigation it gives. The Attacks: I personally would value 400% -regen over two proc'd MM attacks. I also feel that the 10% RCH bonuses from Apocalypse and Ragnarok are more impactful because - while most MMs can ignore Recharge, largely - it's actually helpful on Cold. 5 PC prev med in Upgrade Robot: I was blanking on where to put the spare slots. You could probably drop the status/regen unique in the level 6 upgrade to get preventative medicine's six piece RCH bonus. Teleport for Vengeance: LOTG #5 is self-explanatory, Vengeance is also useful in teams. Edit: Fuck, I didn't notice that you put five LOTGs in already. Build editing without Adderall is pain. Put procs into Protector Bots, maybe. Put explosive strike in there, and the command of the mastermind aura. Good thoughts. I hadn't realized Frostwork was changed to not provide absorb, so it's probably good to swap it out. After ice shields and prot-bot bubbles, pets already are over 45% to melee, ranged, aoe without slotting the Command of Mastermind aura. I suppose I could add the MM attacks to stack the -regen with Benumb. Seemed like overkill but who knows. Having just made a Mercs/FF I'm pretty underwhelmed by Bots. I thought Bots/Cold would do more damage to Pylons etc. Maybe Bots are really more AOE-focused. My Necro/FF also seems stronger. Mastermind (Robotics - Cold Domination) v5.mbd Edited April 21 by brasilgringo 1
AmrasNotHere Posted April 21 Posted April 21 Necro is in a really good spot right now. Go figure Bots/Cold is giving my Demon/Cold a run for its money on pylon times right now (not the build I posted just for clarification but not far off, one that would def make some people in this thread scream). Protector Bots are the only thing holding it back from beating it since they don't do a whole lot of damage compared to the battle drones and all mighty assbot. If you're gonna take it into LGTF 4 star the mm attacks come in clutch for the extra -regen since you'll really only ever have assbot summoned, otherwise I barely use them. I posted mine as a way to get the builders block dissolved but yours is pretty good + taking Vids suggestions and then tuning it to your personal pref. For the bot attacks they're totally skippable compared to the necro attacks which can easily be justified. If you want to see more damage you could always get risky with Ninjas lol. 1 Build Benchmarks
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