Buff Controllers and Dominators by doubling the effect and endurance cost of melee AT defensive powers

[PhotriusPyrelus]

10 hours ago, Rudra said:

Because he actually thought dying until you figured out a strategy for that fight was fun. At least, that is what I was told.

...I mean....  he's not wrong?  Look at literally any FromSoft Game...

 

5 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

They did.  Toggles were mutually exclusive at launch.  But with multiple damage types in each spawn, an overabundance of status effects, graphical or audio cues being little more than animations or flashes of light which were impossible to see in the middle of combat, and an animation system which wasn't designed to support reactive gameplay, toggle mutual exclusivity wasn't viable without forced teaming and specific team compositions, which directly opposed Jack's fundamental vision of the game, so toggle mutual exclusivity was removed.

Fascinating.

[CrusaderDroid]

37 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

...I mean....  he's not wrong?  Look at literally any FromSoft Game...

Not quite the same. The Souls series of games (which are not comparable in difficulty to Armored Core, their other big and very good series) have significantly more decision points and deliberately play up slow animations to make you think more about when and how you attack and defend. You're always able to access all the base controls out of the gate and can theoretically win with just that.

 

City of Heroes can't accommodate that. I'm not sure you can even get that style of play in an MMO. You definitely couldn't in the design philosophies of that year, which were more heavily focused on socialization and the grind to keep players hooked, playing, and paying. With City of Heroes, you don't have the tools that a Souls game gives you to beat anything at any state just by playing properly.

 

Dying over and over with the knowledge that yes, it's possible, you just need to tighten up your timing and learn the pattern? Yeah. That can be fun. Dying over and over because you can only push a few buttons and your hero can't land any attacks because a random number says so, while they get crushed as attacks hit you from seemingly everywhere even while you move? Not fun. There's nothing inherently wrong with the City of Heroes gameplay loop, but it does mean that certain outcomes that are okay in other games are not acceptable here.

 

All this to say: Jack was wrong and it's good that the game moved away from it.

[Rudra]

59 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

Because he actually thought dying until you figured out a strategy for that fight was fun. At least, that is what I was told.

...I mean....  he's not wrong?  Look at literally any FromSoft Game...

What @CrusaderDroid said.

 

Edit: Look at it from this point of view. Imagine your mez protection inspiration cannot be used while mezzed. You are fighting an enemy that does severe energy damage and mezzes you. If you don't use your mez protection armor, you get held to death. If you use your mez protection armor, you get 2 or 3 shot by the enemies' attacks. (AVs, EBs, and bosses didn't scale down back then.) So you pop your mez protection inspiration and have your energy resist armor active. The enemy keeps weathering your attacks and you are getting close to winning, but you've burned through your mez protection inspirations because of the length of the fight, your last inspiration times out, you get mezzed, and now you're dead. You hosp', get back to the mission, and the enemy has fully healed in the time it took you to get back to him. So you buy yet more inspirations and try again. There is no pattern to avoid or learn. There is no real strategy you can employ beyond what you are doing. And you keep dying. Does that really sound fun?

Edited April 25 by Rudra

[gabrilend]

1 hour ago, Videra said:

Okay, real quick, you need to get out of the kitchen. The soup is on fire, the cat is on fire, the house is on fire, you've lit up the entire neighborhood. Stop cooking.

 

I can't help it. But I don't want to be cremated, so I think I'm going to take a break from this game for a while. Might be back in 6 months or whatever. Sorry for bothering you.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, gabrilend said:

 

I can't help it. But I don't want to be cremated, so I think I'm going to take a break from this game for a while. Might be back in 6 months or whatever. Sorry for bothering you.

There is no need for you to stop playing or posting. This just wasn't one of your better ideas.

[Haijinx]

Keep in mind there are a lot of people who think this game is too easy.  So they also would like a more involved playstyle featuring less steamrolls, more need for CC and support. 

 

They just tend to get bored and take breaks.

[gabrilend]

41 minutes ago, Rudra said:

There is no need for you to stop playing or posting. This just wasn't one of your better ideas.

 

no it's cool, I need to focus on work anyway. There's only really one other game I play right now, so maybe if I can get them to hate me then I'll really be able to focus haha 😄

[PeregrineFalcon]

4 minutes ago, gabrilend said:

no it's cool, I need to focus on work anyway. There's only really one other game I play right now, so maybe if I can get them to hate me then I'll really be able to focus haha 😄

If you need to focus on work that's one thing. Keeping yourself not homeless must always take precedence over video games.

 

That being said, no one here hates you. Certainly not because of this. We've all had ideas that sound great in our heads but not so much once friends start giving us feedback. It's all part of the great learning experience that is life.

 

See you when you get back. Peace.

[tidge]

I'm going to springboard off this post...

5 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

 

I kind of think that's the idea behind Containment for Controllers. Unfortunatly, I agree that it doesn't go far enough. The idea that if something is "mezzed" enough times it should count as death/being arrested (also stated earlier in the thread) is a brillant one.  . . and would be a huge undertaking for our small volunteer dev team, soooo probably not happening anytime soon. Maybe by 2034. lol

 

The fundamentals of damage-to-defeat critters as the basis of almost all rewards in the game (Inf, XP, drops, etc.) is why I think the current implementation of %damage (i.e. "procs") is so healthy for the game's variety. I doubt I would enjoy a game where "game balance" directly turned "controls" into equivalent rewards as for defeats. I rather like the current state of the game where I can construct control ATs to lean hard into the controls or mix it up with some %damage.

 

How to make Controllers "feel better" for controlling? I don't really know. My Controllers are less bothered by fast-moving +Nx8 content by the opening thesis of the original post... maybe it is experience with which critters to focus on? Maybe it is the variety of controls/debuffs/buffs I typically make sure to have available?

 

My controllers tend to get peeved when there are enemy critters that have a seeming endless amount of protection and/or resistance and also engage in "run away" AI antics. Igneous, Warwolves are common critters, but there are some EB level enemies. Basically, whenever it becomes extremely difficult for a solo controller to "stack" enough control onto some of these rather common enemies, I get a little peeved... it's not like Warwolves have some special weakness that balances their crazy behavior.