We'll Just Leave This One Here...

[GM Crumpet]

I'm loath to lock this thread but I will if it stays antagonistic.  There are some interesting points being made, but attacks on other players or retired CR's is not acceptable.

[GM Crumpet]

And for what it's worth, I and the rest of the team have the utmost respect for all the former CR's who spent a lot of time and effort working for the benefit of the community.. GM's have real lives as much as everyone else and sometimes we can't do things outside our core jobs, or don't feel comfortable with things. I'm bad at PvP and role playing, I couldn't turn up as Mako and growl at people for instance. It would just be wrong. I'm the silly one who drops in on a Hamidon raid and does daft things to amuse the crowd. Want someone to fetch an enemy out of a wall? I'm your man. Ask me to judge your costume/base/ PvP contest? I'm the wrong person. I'd give the prize to everyone as I think you are all amazing 🙂 

[ZacKing]

Right so, just to be perfectly clear, I am not attacking anyone nor is it my intent to insult anyone.  I have a lot of respect for other players who dedicate their free time toward organizing events and doing things for other players.  I've mentioned several of them by name here and thanked them for their generous help.  I've also personally thanked @Dacy several times in this thread for all the effort put into doing things for the base community. 

 

As far as questioning numbers, I'm sorry but that's just what I do.  Please don't take it personally, it's nothing against you personally.  I don't take anyone at their word and I was raised to always get all the facts.  It's nothing against you personally and I'm not saying you're lying or that you're a liar or anything the sort.  A very wise man once said "I'd rather have questions that can't be answered than answers I can't question."  I'm being honest here, but this kind of response from you is just a clear indication of what I said earlier in the thread in that anything that gets questioned gets labelled as "toxic" or "trolling" or "being argumentative."  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it appears to me anyway. 

 

I can't help if it you see my disagreement over the need for CRs as a personal insult or an attack.  That certainly isn't the case.  I don't have "disdain" for the role, nor do I feel like you or anyone aren't worthy of it.  I just don't see the role as necessary, sorry.  I also don't see how not having a blue title anymore prevents you from continuing to be the kind, helpful person you have been in being generous with your time in working with and helping others.

 

I hope you do get your title back.  It seems like it's very important to you, so best of luck in that pursuit.  I don't think you need it to do what you do, but go for it if that's what you want and will make you happy.

[Dacy]

As I said in the beginning, this wasn’t about getting the title back. First I was informing people of the changes, and then, on a related note, I was proposing that some changes to how homecoming operates might be beneficial to the organization. The fact that this became about your questions and CRs, and whether or not blue titles are needed, and then further, into arguments about the qualities of bases, and the interest or lack thereof in the community for building and contests, is a testament to how your arguments changed the topic.

We’ve had several interactions by now, and I’ve seen you commenting in other places as well. Perhaps you don’t realize how your approach to things impacts the topics you decide to wade into. In both of the other topics in base building, the focus of the post was changed and became about something else entirely. My objections are not about “negativity“. 
 

Lifting the title has lifted some weight of responsibility, and honestly, I doubt that the CR role can come back unless some of the changes I mentioned are made. The title itself was something I had to be talked into and isn’t important to me, but the work we did because of that role, is.

Love to all, I appreciate the support and affirmation, and I know Easter Bunny does, too. ❤️ Thank you!

 

[ZacKing]

Ok so just for my future reference, I'd like to understand something - are we not allowed to offer differing opinions or perspectives on topics related to bases any longer?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding you and I very well could be, and if that's the case I apologize.  It seems to me that's the message we're being sent. 

 

22 minutes ago, Dacy said:

First I was informing people of the changes, and then, on a related note, I was proposing that some changes to how homecoming operates might be beneficial to the organization. The fact that this became about your questions and CRs, and whether or not blue titles are needed, and then further, into arguments about the qualities of bases, and the interest or lack thereof in the community for building and contests, is a testament to how your arguments changed the topic.

 

To be crystal clear, I was not arguing.  I was never arguing with you or anyone else.  I was not personally insulting you or attacking you at any time.  I was only asking questions and offering another perspective on the very thoughts and ideas for changes you were sharing.  I provided examples to back up what I was suggesting.  Are we no longer allowed to do that here?  Maybe I'm wrong, but I had thought that's what discussion forums are for.

 

We may not agree on the need for PR people or CRs or whatever you want to call the role.  At least to me, the actions of others devoting their free time toward organizing events and helping other players out is what matters. 

 

Again, apologies if you feel like you've been insulted, attacked or berated in some way.  That certainly wasn't the intent.

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

Ok so just for my future reference, I'd like to understand something - are we not allowed to offer differing opinions or perspectives on topics related to bases any longer?

I think it's more a matter of "there's a time and a place for everything."

 

For example: when a coworker sends out an email to everyone that says "Friday will be my last day at work. The company is downsizing and has eliminated my position." That's really not the best time/place to respond with "Oh good. Nothing against you, but I don't think that your position was really necessary and I'm glad the company has eliminated that position." Do you see where that just might be a social faux pas?

 

And that's basically what you, and others, did. I'm sure that's not what you intended, but that's how it came across.

[ZacKing]

13 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I think it's more a matter of "there's a time and a place for everything."

 

For example: when a coworker sends out an email to everyone that says "Friday will be my last day at work. The company is downsizing and has eliminated my position." That's really not the best time/place to respond with "Oh good. Nothing against you, but I don't think that your position was really necessary and I'm glad the company has eliminated that position." Do you see where that just might be a social faux pas?

 

And that's basically what you, and others, did. I'm sure that's not what you intended, but that's how it came across.

 

Thank your for clarifying.  I can see how it might be taken that way.  With that said, I tried several times to clarify my position, which I think you and everyone else knows already, and I think you know this isn't what I was suggesting.  You'll note that I didn't say I was "glad" about any one person losing a position.  I can't help it if that's how people felt or how they interpreted what I said, but that's more on them than it is on me.  I think I've apologized and clarified my thoughts enough times to get that message across.

 

But just in case that isn't clear, I'm sorry that people lost a title that meant something to them.  I'm sorry people feel bad about it.  All I'm suggesting is titles don't change who they are or what they can do or the positive impact they can have on the community.  And as has been said already, the actions speak far louder than the titles ever will. 

[Dacy]

@ZacKing, I take you at your word. You don't mean to have come across as you have, and you bear no animosity. Honestly, I don't bear any towards you, either. I think @PeregrineFalcon has summed it up succinctly and in a positive way. And I think perhaps you just approach things differently, but since that's not being as well received as you intend in this instance, just trying to point out how it's coming across and feeling on this side so you can see it from a different perspective.

 

If you wish to delve into how many bases we have and of what types and what the size of the base community really is and what their level of interest is in any specific topic, perhaps starting your own topic would be a good idea? But here, I think your arguments, on the heels of seeing the CRs dissolved and the base dev retire, started to sound a lot like "the base community isn't important or even really active, and CRs were never needed anyway". If you were part of that community, you might start to feel a bit attacked, you see. And part of what I pointed out is, you have said  you are "not the intended audience", essentially disassociating yourself with the base building community, and yet, you keep coming into topics and arguing about different points like it's your focus in life. It's not that you can't or shouldn't talk about base stuff, it's that the arguments veer off into other areas and you introduce new elements to the debate, and that effectively "moves the goalpost" of the argument, which not only hijacks the thread, but perpetuates the argument. That begins to look like you're just there to argue, and that tactic is called the "strawman". From what you've said, I'm thinking that's not intentional on your part, but it nevertheless can rile people. And it starts to build you a reputation that you've clearly run into.  (When I use the word "argument" here, and you say, but I'm not arguing, I am referring to the fact that you are presenting counter points to what was being talked about. That -is- an argument, especially when you go and find facts to support it.)

 

It got what I termed "tiresome" to me because, every topic where you have come in, you have argued against whatever position I had taken . That started to feel purposeful. It certainly lets me know that we are unlikely to agree on many things. And that's okay. I don't need people to agree, but I will say I do not like arguments that just keep going. (And also, thanks for responding here, but the arguments have not all been just from  you, and I know that.)

 

I hope this explains what I'm seeing, and I hope you can understand this side of things. I will try and view you through your perspective, as well.

Edited May 2 by Dacy

[Dacy]

@GM Crumpet? Do you know how "Retired Community Rep" got put with my name? It wasn't there last I looked. Could that be taken down, please? I did not retire. 🙂 Unofficially, we're still doing things, and "retired"...well, just doesn't encapsulate the situation, you know? 🙂 Thanks!

[ZacKing]

I'd like to ask a follow up question if I may.  Allow me to preface it by saying very clearly this isn't intended as an insult to you or anyone else personally.  I'd like to follow up on this comment -

 

11 minutes ago, Dacy said:

But here, I think your arguments, on the heels of seeing the CRs dissolved and the base dev retire, started to sound a lot like "the base community isn't important or even really active, and CRs were never needed anyway". If you were part of that community, you might start to feel a bit attacked, you see.

 

I'd like to know where I expressly said that bases and base building isn't important and that HC shouldn't care about it.  I've never said that.  I've said yes, it's a small community.  I never said HC shouldn't care about it or ignore it.  I just understand that it isn't a priority for them and that they should be the ones who decide what they want to work on in their spare time.

 

I'll also say that as a builder myself - and yes, I am a builder -  I don't feel attacked in the least that the base CRs position got eliminated.  No, I don't see that as a personal insult by anyone at HC, nor do I see it as anyone from HC ignoring builders and bases or not caring.   As I've said many times here, I understand this is a passion project run by a group of volunteers in their spare time.  I thank them for that effort and appreciate all the work they've put into this project and all the work they continue to do.  I may not agree with everything they do or everything they say, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate their hard work.  

 

I'd also like clarification as to what exactly constitutes being a "member of the community"?  I've built bases, included them in your directory, posted photos of them and such in threads on the forums here and shared the code with others for them to use and enjoy at their leisure.  I've spent a lot of time visiting bases others have built and enjoying exploring them.  I'm working on several different base projects right now.  Is that not good enough?  If not, please let me know what the requirements are. 

 

Anyway, point taken.  I'll steer clear of any of your posts from here on out.  It seems like that's for the best.  Good day to you.  I wish you the best.

[Dacy]

Sigh. Okay, message not received.

 

https://tenor.com/view/modern-family-eye-roll-sigh-gif-12685020

 

I dunno, you're the one that said you weren't the intended audience, a couple of times in different places, so thought that's how you saw yourself. But okay. Have a good one.

 

[Relocated]

In addition, I think it’s best to empathize and I understand what Dacy is saying. And back to what Dacy posted, thank you for informing people of the changes. It’s appreciated and you helping other people out is praiseworthy. I hope all is well with you and the others. Let’s make 2024 a wondrous year. Shout-out to Easter Bunny btw. 👍🏻

[GM Crumpet]

1 hour ago, Dacy said:

@GM Crumpet? Do you know how "Retired Community Rep" got put with my name? It wasn't there last I looked. Could that be taken down, please? I did not retire. 🙂 Unofficially, we're still doing things, and "retired"...well, just doesn't encapsulate the situation, you know? 🙂 Thanks!

If you don't want it I'll see about getting it removed

[Dacy]

6 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

If you don't want it I'll see about getting it removed

Thanks,  after talking it over with various people, EB and I decided to accept in the spirit it was intended, as an honor, and just modify our sigs a bit to explain that it's not a "sit back and do nothing" sort of retirement. 🙂

 

 

[GM Crumpet]

2 hours ago, Dacy said:

Thanks,  after talking it over with various people, EB and I decided to accept in the spirit it was intended, as an honor, and just modify our sigs a bit to explain that it's not a "sit back and do nothing" sort of retirement. 🙂

 

 

Talking to the people in the city council it was never intended as a slight or as any kind of jab, but a recognition of the work you all did. Saying that, we would never wish anyone to feel uncomfortable so we are more than happy to change something if you ask 🙂 

[Dacy]

Oh, I did not think it was a slight 🙂 It was just inaccurate. To me, "retired", first of all, implies inactivity in that job, and I'm not inactive; I'm doing what they said they wanted me to do. Second of all, and less importantly, it implies I took that action and left, and I did not. There really isn't a short way to sum it up, but retired, to me, wasn't it! 🙂 And I did ask for something different, actually, but was told that the only choices were "retired" or nothing, and having publicly stated that I didn't want to be titled as retired, I felt I had to let others know why the change, and that it was intended as an honorific. And also, Easter Bunny rather liked it. So we came to an agreement on what worked for all of us.

[Nerio72]

Just make it this...

 

[Snarky]

I had few interactions with you Dacy but I was nonetheless highly impressed.  When I say I have no complaints with a persons assistance and comportment it is high praise indeed!   Sometimes I wish in life that I could (and others) be more effective at communicating my gratitude and happiness when interacting with someone. Too often I fear that it will be misunderstood, misinterpreted, and possibly (oh please no!) reacted to.  
 

But I do want to say how grateful I am for the pointers and assistance I received from Dacy.  The videos were useful and the regular responses on the less traversed Base sub forum was much appreciated indeed.  
 

My next project is to take my old base and make a small floating island of the “necessary working area”. (Porters, storage, and a few devices) then attempt to make it look like there is a power source (mystical) and propulsion. Which I have an idea how I want to do it.  The two things I have not solved yet are 1) how to get a truly dark sky/background.  I have seen true nearly black night skies in some bases. 2) i wanted the area to have no walls and be a floating platform. But I believe if i make the are raised long before i get to the wall/lip it will achieve the “open” feel i want.  It will be a much smaller but hopefully more aesthetic and detailed piece of work than my Rogue Isles Villains Base. Something functional and looking correct.  

[lemming]

Of people I have interacted with in game, Dacy is one of the most helpful friendly people.  

[Dacy]

Thanks folks, I really appreciate the support and kind words.

 

I have to admit, I've said too much of late. I realize I should have disengaged. I very much want to be inclusive and understanding, and when someone is upset and leaves, I feel bad, and I feel like what I tried to say wasn't understood as intended, and so likely I should not have said it. Even when interactions with someone are frustrating to me, that doesn't mean I want them to go away.

 

We are human and we all make mistakes, and understanding that about one another makes this a better place. 🙂

 

I want you to know, each and every one of you are important, and important to me, and I enjoy helping anyone who needs it.  That being said, I'm seeing my face too much in this topic on the table of contents, so am going try to back off a bit and let the others who are capable, shine more. Still here, just a bit less obviously, I hope. 🙂 The easiest way to get a fast response from me will always be on Discord, anyway. 

 

 

Seriously, the support and kind words keep me going! Thank you from my heart.

 

[Relocated]

No problem, Dacy. I see you. I find you as inclusive and understanding. You’re tolerable and compassionate. And you can show up whenever you feel like it. We’re all equals. I am glad that the kind words and support keeps you going. Makes me happy that we all try our best to be uplifting and function as a team. That’s what I love about this community.