scrapper and damage proc enhancements

[R jobbus]

I'm pretty new here but just trying to understand, is it a good idea to use damage proc enhancements for scrapper abilities that have like a 13-17 second cooldown? or should you just use cooldown instead for the slot.

 

I found another big damage proc topic that got into how worth it is, saying that for lower cooldown abilities like 3-5 seconds, it's not worth it, but for

higher cooldown like 16-ish seconds it might be. But..global cooldown doesn't affect that, right. Cause say, on a katana scrapper, golden dragonfly's cooldown for me has gone down to 3-4 seconds after global cooldown. I'm unsure how hasten affects the damage proc also.

 

So where and how/if do I use damage proc enhancements for scrapper. Or say a katana scrapper. and how does ageless/hasten affect that, if that's clear. if I'm even asking this right lol. again sorry i'm new just wrapping my head around this a bit before spending alot of inf on stuff. 

 

thanks for the help

[Uun]

Global recharge (including Hasten) doesn't affect proc chances, only recharge slotted in the power (or running Alpha Agility or Spiritual). A recharge of 16s or longer is generally the sweet spot for proc chances. I'm not a big fan of slotting lots of procs on a scrapper (although I will slot 1-2 in a power if I've already maxed out the damage). In order to make the procs effective you have to forego a lot of recharge and set bonuses. I find procs give more bang for the buck on ATs with lower damage scales. 

[R jobbus]

20 hours ago, Uun said:

Global recharge (including Hasten) doesn't affect proc chances, only recharge slotted in the power (or running Alpha Agility or Spiritual). A recharge of 16s or longer is generally the sweet spot for proc chances. I'm not a big fan of slotting lots of procs on a scrapper (although I will slot 1-2 in a power if I've already maxed out the damage). In order to make the procs effective you have to forego a lot of recharge and set bonuses. I find procs give more bang for the buck on ATs with lower damage scales. 

 

ah ok, thanks for the help.

 

But I mean if this is the case, how do you get more damage for a scrapper? Just recharge and damage set bonuses? 

[Uun]

4 minutes ago, R jobbus said:

But I mean if this is the case, how do you get more damage for a scrapper? Just recharge and damage set bonuses? 

It depends on the primary/secondary and what the build requires. I always slot the scrapper ATOs. I typically 6-slot Superior Critical Strikes, but will split Superior Scrapper's Strike into two groups of 3 pieces if I want to double the S/L defense bonus (otherwise I'll 6-slot for the recharge and S/L resist bonus). The ATOs provide a lot of recharge enhancement, so try to slot them in powers that have long cooldowns. If I need positional defense, I'll slot Mako's Bite for the ranged defense bonus or Touch of Death or Superior Avalanche for the melee defense bonus. If I need typed defense, I'll slot Superior Blistering Cold for the S/L and F/C defense. The purple sets also provide a lot of recharge enhancement, so those also go in powers with long cooldowns. 

 

I'm sure I could eke out more damage by slotting damage procs in lieu of full sets, but in doing so I would sacrifice valuable set bonuses and recharge slotted in the attacks for a more fluid attack chain. I'm not interested in building for pylon times, I want scrappers that are sturdy and fun to play.

[R jobbus]

1 minute ago, Uun said:

It depends on the primary/secondary and what the build requires. I always slot the scrapper ATOs. I typically 6-slot Superior Critical Strikes, but will split Superior Scrapper's Strike into two groups of 3 pieces if I want to double the S/L defense bonus (otherwise I'll 6-slot for the recharge and S/L resist bonus). The ATOs provide a lot of recharge enhancement, so try to slot them in powers that have long cooldowns. If I need positional defense, I'll slot Mako's Bite for the ranged defense bonus or Touch of Death or Superior Avalanche for the melee defense bonus. If I need typed defense, I'll slot Superior Blistering Cold for the S/L and F/C defense. The purple sets also provide a lot of recharge enhancement, so those also go in powers with long cooldowns. 

 

I'm sure I could eke out more damage by slotting damage procs in lieu of full sets, but in doing so I would sacrifice valuable set bonuses and recharge slotted in the attacks for a more fluid attack chain. I'm not interested in building for pylon times, I want scrappers that are sturdy and fun to play.

 

Right, see i'm using superior blistering cold and the 2 archtype sets, with scrapper strike split as well.

 

 I'm likely doing what I should be doing im just not used to it cause I came from playing a blaster. But yea my katana/willpower scrapper is omega tanky and I find that to be more important than trying to squeeze out a little more damage as well. 

 

I also need to unlock hybrid slot lol that'd probably help things out as well.

 

One last question would you go barrier if a scrapper is already tanky or ageless? I really have 0 endurance issues, it would probably just take like a few seconds off dragonfly/dragon at this point. I just dont know if barrier would do anything if im already pretty solid defense wise. i know it's probably good to get both.

 

Thanks for the help, just wondering. I am quite new to scrapper, only played blaster so far.

[tidge]

I approach Scrappers as @Uun , here is my general take:

• Scrappers typically have attacks with fast inherent recharge times (less than 10 seconds), so %proc rates will be low.
• Scrappers typically have single-target attacks, so a %damage proc in a ST attack will only hit that single target.
• Scrappers have a good damage scale for melee attacks, so enhancing damage yields excellent results on average
• I feel that Scrappers benefit from set bonuses a little bit more than some other ATs, so leaning into the set bonuses is preferred. YMMV

I do try to franken-slot %damage in Scrapper ranged attacks, especially if those ranged attacks are AoE.

 

I tend to favor Barrier on my Scrappers that have typical Defense values 10% (or more) below "soft cap". My scrappers draw a lot of attention, but with relatively little AoE I find that the enemy critters can get a LOT of swings on them. My builds also tend to have enough power variety in them (that is: I don't design precise attack chains only using a limited number of attacks) so I lack room for teh sorts of powers that can boost defenses across the board.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Different people are going to have different styles based on their play and what they discover for themselves during gameplay.  My style (which is clearly the best style (for me, that is (at this point in time) ) ) answers some of your questions this way:

 

On 5/1/2024 at 8:46 AM, R jobbus said:

So where and how/if do I use damage proc enhancements for scrapper.

 

The current mechanics of procs for damage are favorable for low damage ATs, since they increase the total damage at the cost of a higher volatility.  On scrappers, I tend to only slot them if I have an extra slot and I do not prioritize them.  The purple damage procs for melee and melee AoE are definitely worth slotting (although only once each per build).  I focus my proc attention more on -dam resist procs like Achilles Heel and Gladiator Strike.

 

2 hours ago, R jobbus said:

But I mean if this is the case, how do you get more damage for a scrapper?

 

 

Slot for damage enhancement; I'll shoot for 95%+.  Also, I use a fair amount of debuffs.  Understand the scrapper ATOs and how they work in order to increase your overall rate of critical hits.  With respect to the ATOs, I will usually split the Scrappers Strike set 3-3 between two powers unless it is a pure defense set in which case I will 5 or 6 slot it in one power.  you should always slot the Critical Strikes proc, and sometimes that's the only one of the set I will slot.  Usually I figure out a way to slot three for the accuracy bonus.  Rarely I will 6-slot it in one power.

 

2 hours ago, R jobbus said:

One last question would you go barrier if a scrapper is already tanky or ageless?

 

This is where my biases really show up.  I avoid barrier always because my scrappers generally are tanky enough and I also think it's kind of cheesy.  Since I rarely play scrappers with defense debuff resistance. I take Ageless and when I do get debuffed I activate Ageless and it provides plenty of protection.  Note:  it does not override existing debuffs, but those tend to wear off pretty quickly.

 

 

[Uun]

1 hour ago, R jobbus said:

One last question would you go barrier if a scrapper is already tanky or ageless? I really have 0 endurance issues, it would probably just take like a few seconds off dragonfly/dragon at this point. I just dont know if barrier would do anything if im already pretty solid defense wise. i know it's probably good to get both.

Looking at my scrappers and brutes, I've gone Rebirth Radial 3x, Ageless Radial 3x and Barrier 1x (including 1 with both Rebirth and Ageless). Obviously I take Rebirth with secondaries that don't have heals, although Radial also provides a hefty regen buff. When I take Ageless, I go Radial for the debuff resistance (rather than Core for the recovery buff). 

 

For Hybrid, I've gone Melee Core 5x and Assault 4x (including 3 with both). It's handy to be able to switch between a more offensive or defensive posture depending on the faction you're facing and the team composition. IMO, Melee Core is better than most of the armor set T9s. It provides a 120s buff to resistance and regen that doesn't degrade over time and has no crash. It also provides confuse and fear protection, which some of the armors lack.

[Zect]

This question is not straightforward to answer, because it depends on

1. The amount of rech enhancement in the power, which affects procrate;
2. The amount of damage enhancement in the power - if it's already in red ED for damage, a proc is your only option for further significant damage enhancement. This is why all the highest-dps scrapper builds feature some level of procced attacks.
3. What else you would replace the proc with, and whether that does more damage (or otherwise contributes something you want).

That said, mids' is generally quite good at calculating procrates and thus average damage contributed by procs. You can change around your slotting and observe how the damage fluctuates yourself, and you don't really have to bother with any of the math unless you want to.

 

Most builds can afford 1 attack filled mostly with procs even without really trying to procbomb. On my kats it tends to be SD (because the usual kat attack chain is GC SD GC GD, so typically don't need rech in SD). But the scrapper damage scalar is high enough that you will still do good damage without procs beyond what you get incidentally from slotting sets you desire anyway.

[R jobbus]

56 minutes ago, Zect said:

This question is not straightforward to answer, because it depends on

1. The amount of rech enhancement in the power, which affects procrate;
2. The amount of damage enhancement in the power - if it's already in red ED for damage, a proc is your only option for further significant damage enhancement. This is why all the highest-dps scrapper builds feature some level of procced attacks.
3. What else you would replace the proc with, and whether that does more damage (or otherwise contributes something you want).

That said, mids' is generally quite good at calculating procrates and thus average damage contributed by procs. You can change around your slotting and observe how the damage fluctuates yourself, and you don't really have to bother with any of the math unless you want to.

 

Most builds can afford 1 attack filled mostly with procs even without really trying to procbomb. On my kats it tends to be SD (because the usual kat attack chain is GC SD GC GD, so typically don't need rech in SD). But the scrapper damage scalar is high enough that you will still do good damage without procs beyond what you get incidentally from slotting sets you desire anyway.

 

ok I can see what you're getting at here, so what proc enhancements would you put in SD then. I have superior blistering coldx5 in it at the moment + one recharge enhancement that's probably not really doing anything. I'd lose the set bonuses if i do anything but replace the recharge enhancement but im just curious what's possible, i may mess around w/ it in mids

Edited May 2 by R jobbus

[Zect]

You're trying to cap SL def with the blistering colds. If you're trying to cap SL def it's almost always worth it to split your scrapper ATIO into 2 sets of 3x, getting the 5% SL def bonus twice. You can try putting one set of 3x in SD (AD + any two of ADR, DER, quad - choose depending on what enhancement value is needed by the power that takes the remaining 3 pieces) and the other 3 slots are 3 damage procs. This should give damage enhancement in the red ED or nearly there with a musculature core.

[Sancerre]

relatively speaking, scrappers benefit less from damage procs than other ATs but it is still the last remaining way to eek out more damage. 

 

if you are planning to run musculature incarnate (you should), then reaching an 'effective' enhanced damage cap is really easy (for the most part 3 enhancements with a damage component will do it).  procs work best with minimal recharge in your power and maximum GLOBAL recharge (IO set bonuses, party buffs like chronoshift, self buffs like hasten).  you want to try to maximize your global recharge so you can hit perma-hasten self buffed and then maxamize your enhance damage scale through IOs in the individual power first (again only takes about 3 enhancements typically).  beyond that just weigh your set bonus options against more procs.  there is a lot of flexibility and nuance here but most of it doesnt matter _too_ much for scrapper.  it is mostly a decision on your end of if you want more defense/resistance to survive self buffed or do you want to rely on party buffs and/or inspirations more.