Jump to content
Hotmail and Outlook are blocking most of our emails at the moment. Please use an alternative provider when registering if possible until the issue is resolved.

"Experienced Marksman: Range/Fast Snipe" Enhancement removes the Sniper Rifle's out of combat bonus damage


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Ever since I added the "Experienced Marksman: Range/Fast Snipe" Enhancement to my Sniper Rifle from the Blaster's Assault Rifle skills, the yellow ring that would tell me that I am in combat would persist even out of combat, and when I would use the ability from out of combat it would not give the "Sniper Shot" after use.

Is this intended behavior?

 

abilitys.png.d1b33f88200d2b11fa800bc4f7945c98.png

heros screen.png

Edited by slenered
Fixed formating
Posted
2 hours ago, slenered said:

Is this intended behavior?

 

Yes.

It seems backwards, but it is for people that want to avoid the interrupt time of using it in snipe mode.

If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

Posted
1 hour ago, slenered said:

But is it supposed to remove the Sniper Shot bonus damage?

 

Yes. A "fast" snipe isn't a snipe.

You get the bonus damage because of the interrupt time of a snipe. The interrupt time is removed when it is a "fast" snipe.

 

I know it is a hard lesson to learn. I learned it myself.

I too prefer the additional damage over the "fast" snipe all the time.

 

I think that the set was created when there was no automatic "fast" snipe when in combat.

Originally, whenever you used a snipe it had interrupt time which meant it was only really usable as an initial attack even if you slotted interrupt reducers into it.

If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

Posted
15 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I think that the set was created when there was no automatic "fast" snipe when in combat.

 

 

Nope, it was created after. Some people liked the fast non-snipe and wanted it 24/7.

 

(And yes, I want an IO that does the opposite and prevents fast snipe.)

  • 10 months later
Posted

Thanks for this thread.  I almost started building this set for a sniper concept character.  No thank you!

 

I would love to see the text on the enhancement updated because it is misleading.  Nowhere do snipe powers say that instant-cast and bonus damage are mutually exclusive.

 

Game rules:

1) Power description: if engaged, then instant-cast

2) Fast Snipe description: if slotted, then always instant-cast

3) Power description: if not engaged, then bonus damage

 

So according to the text, if I have the IO slotted and I am not engaged, rule 1 does not apply but rules 2 and 3 do apply.  I should have instant-cast and bonus damage.

 

Not saying the rules should change but the text should be rewritten to accurately reflect them.

  • Game Master
Posted
5 hours ago, Zombra said:

Thanks for this thread.  I almost started building this set for a sniper concept character.  No thank you!

 

I would love to see the text on the enhancement updated because it is misleading.  Nowhere do snipe powers say that instant-cast and bonus damage are mutually exclusive.

 

Game rules:

1) Power description: if engaged, then instant-cast

2) Fast Snipe description: if slotted, then always instant-cast

3) Power description: if not engaged, then bonus damage

 

So according to the text, if I have the IO slotted and I am not engaged, rule 1 does not apply but rules 2 and 3 do apply.  I should have instant-cast and bonus damage.

 

Not saying the rules should change but the text should be rewritten to accurately reflect them.

It's not a normal purple though it's a PvP one. So it's great for PvP but loses effectiveness PvE

Posted
22 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

It's not a normal purple though it's a PvP one. So it's great for PvP but loses effectiveness PvE

 

That's all fine.  I don't object to how it works but the text on the IO is definitely misleading.  It says it's always instant cast but it does not say it removes the bonus damage.

  • Like 1
Posted

everyone makes this mistake, at least once... 😄

"I'm not crazy, my reality is just different than yours" the Cheshire Cat

"Ce n'est rien de mourir; c'est affreux de ne pas vivre"

(It's nothing to die, it's terrible not to live) Jean Valjean

"وطن المرء ليس مكان ولادته و لكنه المكان الذي تنتهي فيه كل محاولاته للهروب”

(Home is not where you were born, home is where all your attempts to escape cease.) Naguib Mahfouz

Posted (edited)
On 7/15/2025 at 7:11 PM, Zombra said:

Nowhere do snipe powers say that instant-cast and bonus damage are mutually exclusive.

 

From the power description:

Quote

If you are engaged in battle this attack becomes instant-cast. If you are not engaged, it will do bonus damage.

 

From the enhancement description:

Quote

All of your snipe powers become instant-cast.

 

I feel like it's pretty clear that slotting this enhancement makes snipes instant-cast and thus removes the additional damage from using them while out of combat. Being instant-cast and non-interruptible and still dealing the bonus damage would be kinda broken, don't you think?

Edited by macskull

"If you can read this, I've failed as a developer." -- Caretaker

 

Proc information and chance calculator spreadsheet (last updated 15APR24)

Player numbers graph (updated every 15 minutes) Graph readme (now with Victory support!)

@macskull/@Not Mac | Twitch | Youtube

Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, macskull said:

Being instant-cast and non-interruptible and still dealing the bonus damage would be kinda broken, don't you think?

 

I was very clear above that I do not have an issue with how the power works, nor with how the enhancement works.  The issue is that how they work is not properly explained by the game, leading players to invest in an expensive enhancement (and possibly an entire set) that works differently than it says.

 

14 hours ago, macskull said:

I feel like it's pretty clear that slotting this enhancement makes snipes instant-cast and thus removes the additional damage from using them while out of combat.

 

Your "thus" part is made up.  Nowhere does it say that it can only be one or the other.  You are jumping to a conclusion that is not expressed in the written rules.  In other words you're guessing.  It happens that your guess is correct, but well-written rules don't require guessing to understand.

 

------------

 

Thora:

Hi Gisele! Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow!

If you wear blue shoes tomorrow, I promise I will give you a cookie.

If you wear orange shoes tomorrow, I promise I will sing you a song.

If you wear an orange jacket tomorrow, I promise I will give you a cookie.

 

Gisele:

Great!  I'll wear an orange jacket and orange shoes tomorrow.  That way I'll get a cookie and a song!

 

Thora:

Absolutely not.  It's obvious that you can't have both a cookie and a song.

 

Gisele:

Um, that's not what you promised.

 

Thora:

Yes, it is.

 

Who is right about what Thora promised?

 

------------

Edited by Zombra
Posted
2 hours ago, Zombra said:

I was very clear above that I do not have an issue with how the power works, nor with how the enhancement works.  The issue is that how they work is not properly explained by the game,

 

Ooph... wait. How come you didn't quote this part of his post?

 

15 hours ago, macskull said:

From the power description:

Quote

If you are engaged in battle this attack becomes instant-cast. If you are not engaged, it will do bonus damage.

 

Just slow down... take a beat. The enhancement says it makes the power instant cast. The individual power says what happens when that power is instant cast or not instant cast.

 

You very conspicuously ignored @macskull's point to try and force yours through.

 

Maybe you think that the enhancement should have a little warning in the text? Like "Check the power description to see what this means." Is that what you think?

 

The D Squad  Arc ID: 68066 Content for Ex-criminals following Blue Spectrum and Officer Daniels after Galaxy City

These Ain't Your Daddy's Skulls!  Arc ID: 68427 (A Playtest Arc for a Complete redesign of The Skulls)

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Forager said:

Ooph... wait. How come you didn't quote this part of his post?

 

The in-game text?  I didn't feel it necessary.  We all agree on what the in-game text says.  But sure, here it is again:

 

1) (Snipe power) If you are engaged in battle this attack becomes instant-cast.

2) (Snipe power) If you are not engaged, [this attack] will do bonus damage.

3) {Enhancement) All of your snipe powers become instant-cast.

 

Do we all agree this is what the game says?  Yes?

Are there any other rules the game tells us?  No?

 

OK, great.  Let's see how this should work then.

 

Suppose I am not engaged in battle yet, but I have the enhancement slotted.  What will happen when I use my snipe power?

Let us check the written rules we all agree on:

 

Since I am not engaged in battle, rule 1 does not apply.  Rule 1 only applies if I am already engaged in battle.

Since I am not engaged in battle, the power will do bonus damage per rule 2.

Since the enhancement is slotted, the power becomes instant-cast per rule 3.

Therefore, according to the rules we all agree on, the power will be instant-cast and do bonus damage.

 

But this is not how it actually works.  How it works does not follow the text of the rules, the text we all agree on.

 

4 hours ago, Forager said:

Maybe you think that the enhancement should have a little warning in the text? Like "Check the power description to see what this means." Is that what you think?

 

Absolutely not that, because the power description does not say that having one effect means you can't have the other.  It only gives us an incomplete list of some ways we can get the effects.

 

If there is a place anywhere in game where it says you cannot have both effects at once, please quote it.

 

However, I do indeed think that the enhancement description should show all its pertinent rules; not just some.

"All of your snipe powers become instant-cast, and no longer do bonus damage when initiating combat." would be great.

That would make it clear that the normal engagement rules for snipe powers are out the window.

-----------

Edited by Zombra
Posted
3 hours ago, Zombra said:

Since the enhancement is slotted, the power becomes instant-cast per rule 3.

 

This is the mistake you are unfortunately making on your third entry.

  

It should read:  Since the enhancement is slotted, the power becomes instant-cast per rule 1.

  • Thumbs Left 1

Helped make Honest Game Trailers channel content

Screenshot 2025-06-25 235644.png    spacer.pngFlint Eastwood

Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, JayboH said:

This is the mistake you are unfortunately making on your third entry.
It should read:  Since the enhancement is slotted, the power becomes instant-cast per rule 1.

 

I love that hustle!  But no.  The enhancement rule (rule 3) doesn't invoke rule 1 at all.  The condition for invoking rule 1 is that the character must be engaged in battle.  The enhancement text doesn't say anything about whether the character is engaged in battle.  The rules of enhancements are activated for a particular power simply by slotting the enhancement, unless otherwise stated.

 

Another way of looking at it:

If rule 1 said "If you are sleeping, you are breathing"

and rule 3 said "You are always breathing"

That does not necessarily mean you are asleep.  Rule 3 does not invoke rule 1.

 

If I have made a mistake, you haven't shown it yet.

--------------

Edited by Zombra
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Zombra said:

 

I love that hustle!  But no.  The enhancement rule (rule 3) doesn't invoke rule 1 at all.  The condition for invoking rule 1 is that the character must be engaged in battle.  The enhancement text doesn't say anything about whether the character is engaged in battle.  The rules of enhancements are activated for a particular power simply by slotting the enhancement, unless otherwise stated.

 

Another way of looking at it:

If rule 1 said "If you are sleeping, you are breathing"

and rule 3 said "You are always breathing"

That does not necessarily mean you are asleep.  Rule 3 does not invoke rule 1.

 

If I have made a mistake, you haven't shown it yet.

--------------

I didn't say it invokes rule 1, I said your statement should read "~the power becomes 'instant-cast' per rule 1."

 

The description of it is listed in rule 1 and not rule 3, which is notably different from rule 2.

Edited by JayboH

Helped make Honest Game Trailers channel content

Screenshot 2025-06-25 235644.png    spacer.pngFlint Eastwood

Posted
1 hour ago, JayboH said:

I didn't say it invokes rule 1, I said your statement should read "~the power becomes 'instant-cast' per rule 1."

 

The description of it is listed in rule 1 and not rule 3, which is notably different from rule 2.

 

I'm confused.  The description of instant-cast in Sniper Rifle is "this attack becomes instant-cast".  That's it.  The enhancement text says "your snipe powers become instant-cast".  The two descriptions are fundamentally identical.  Rule 1 does not have a better description than rule 3.  There's no need for either to reference the other at all.

Posted
1 hour ago, Zombra said:

 

I'm confused.  The description of instant-cast in Sniper Rifle is "this attack becomes instant-cast".  That's it.  The enhancement text says "your snipe powers become instant-cast".  The two descriptions are fundamentally identical.  Rule 1 does not have a better description than rule 3.  There's no need for either to reference the other at all.

Oh, the second half of my sentence wasn't read, perhaps that is where the confusion comes from:  

  

"The description of it is listed in rule 1 and not rule 3, which is notably different from rule 2."

Helped make Honest Game Trailers channel content

Screenshot 2025-06-25 235644.png    spacer.pngFlint Eastwood

Posted
2 hours ago, JayboH said:

Oh, the second half of my sentence wasn't read, perhaps that is where the confusion comes from: 

 

Read it then, read it again now.  They look like English words but no apparent statement is being made.  Rules 1 and 3 still have no meaningful relationship, regardless of how different rule 2 is from either of them.  None of the rules activate each other nor counteract each other.  Beginning to think my real mistake was in trusting a good faith argument.  A good troll?  If so, well done.  If not, maybe try rephrasing.  Either way, I salute you.

Posted

@JayboH OK, I slept on it and I have a guess what you might mean.  When you say that the interpretation of rule 3 should read, "Since the enhancement is slotted, the power becomes instant-cast per rule 1", by "per rule 1", do you mean "in the same way as in rule 1"?

 

It's okay if you want to say that rules 1 and 3 as written both operate in the same way (they do), but neither one is "per" the other.  Rule 1 and rule 3 are independent statements; neither affects the other.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...