some questions about /marine with a few different pet types

[R jobbus]

So /marine is very enjoyable, lots of fun to play. I've had the most success with ninjas/marine and mercs/marine.

 

I wanted to ask, I've heard from several people saying ranged MMs are the best for doing hard content/soloing hard content, and I absolutely love mercs/marine with group fly, but is there any advantage to having bots/marine as well? I've tried them out in the beta server, they clearly do a bit less damage, but are they alot tankier than mercs? What's the main difference between the 2. Is there an advantage to having both of them available. 

 

I am surprised at how much success ninjas/marine has had but the buffs from marine make them so strong, and the concentrated single target damage is really nice. Brine really seems to do well on AVs and smoke bomb is great. 

 

I've struggled to get necro/marine to do what I want it to do, but i may not be using it correctly. My main issue with necro seems to be that it doesn't have the damage output, while also really easily aggroing anything in sight. And also, to add insult to injury, the specters use what im assuming is a fire attack which makes AVs run away from you. I could try adding assault to necro, i'm using a build that doesn't use assault. Honestly i'm totally new to it though and it could definitely be a skill issue. I'm using gloom after I summon spirits, etc. I am testing them on a solo +4/x8 ITF, which ninjas, bots, and mercs have all done well on. My test is generally being able to pass stage 3. 

 

(stage 4 is generally too much for MM/marine, aggroing the 4 AVs at once will just shred the pets. Maybe bots could do it in the air one nictus at a time? It's rough. There's likely a way to do it but I haven't really tinkered with it. The easy cheap and possibly subject-to-change way currently is to just not aggro any monsters at all, fly over to the house behind rommy and pull only him because the aggro limit seems to just glitch out and make this possible if you only pull him from afar without having killed any enemies in the zone. You might even be able to kite only him all the way up the cliff and around the zone to where he can't actually see the nictus, making the objective completed for only one death.  But, I don't want to use this as a strat cause it almost seems cheap and like something they'd just patch out eventually. I don't know.)

 

 

 

[tidge]

Having played a Robotics MM and /Marine on ATs other than MMs, I think the primary consideration is that the Robots are (effectively) entirely ranged attackers. The robots will be well-served by the debuffs from Marine. Some of what I suspect you are observing is with the henchmen classes that engage in melee; Marine should make it very easy to focus on (pretty much) all of the henchmen and the AV/GM at the same time. My experience with the robots is that they do tend to get somewhat scattered (knockback, travel, deciding when to move, etc.) and positioning them is something that has to be done if you want it done.

 

My Robotics favorite is a Traps secondary; for that I skipped the final three powers in Traps (and Web Grenade, and Triage Beacon), so a tricked out Marine MM will probably only skip Soothing Wave and Whitecap. Personally I love Whitecap, but I think a Robotics MM isn't likely to need to use it. Such a kit of /Marine should perform as well as my /Traps kit in the control/debuff  arena.... if not better. The primary "build issue" I see with a Robotics/Marine is that a Robotics MM does want at least two of the Pulse Rifle attacks for -Regen, and /Marine doesn't allow as much skipping of powers as I did with /Traps. I can see a build getting pretty crowded pretty fast.

 

 

[R jobbus]

13 hours ago, tidge said:

Having played a Robotics MM and /Marine on ATs other than MMs, I think the primary consideration is that the Robots are (effectively) entirely ranged attackers. The robots will be well-served by the debuffs from Marine. Some of what I suspect you are observing is with the henchmen classes that engage in melee; Marine should make it very easy to focus on (pretty much) all of the henchmen and the AV/GM at the same time. My experience with the robots is that they do tend to get somewhat scattered (knockback, travel, deciding when to move, etc.) and positioning them is something that has to be done if you want it done.

 

My Robotics favorite is a Traps secondary; for that I skipped the final three powers in Traps (and Web Grenade, and Triage Beacon), so a tricked out Marine MM will probably only skip Soothing Wave and Whitecap. Personally I love Whitecap, but I think a Robotics MM isn't likely to need to use it. Such a kit of /Marine should perform as well as my /Traps kit in the control/debuff  arena.... if not better. The primary "build issue" I see with a Robotics/Marine is that a Robotics MM does want at least two of the Pulse Rifle attacks for -Regen, and /Marine doesn't allow as much skipping of powers as I did with /Traps. I can see a build getting pretty crowded pretty fast.

 

 

 

Thanks for the info. Yea I like the set but I'm just wondering how it compares to mercs. Like what is the major difference there. I'm assuming mercs does more damage but might die easier, is there any real difference being the only 2 ranged MMs? if anyone knows.

 

That's good info though, I likely will just get rid of whitecap for my bots build and get the 2nd rifle -regen ability. I was actually just fighting requiem and it was particularly slow with just one rifle -regen. Though that might just be how bots are as well, as far as damage output goes.

[tidge]

As I hinted: I think the main difference between Robots and other Henchmen is that the other Henchmen will mostly engage in melee, whereas the Robots will mostly stay put. This can be an advantage, as the robots can still be within Bodyguard range but not be the target of (some) AoE attacks. There is a real holistic perspective needed with solo MMs, and approach also must change depending on content.

 

Robots are (in my experience) slower against normal (minion/Lt/Boss) single targets than other henchmen, but against huge sacks of HP (and massively large spawns) I think they are top tier, once debuff effects come into play.

[evetsleep]

I would add that a nice thing about bots is you get a forcefield bubble on your toon from the protector bots which can pair nicely with marines defence to help add to the MM's individual toughness.

 

Also in addition to -regen from the MM attacks the damage type (energy) for bots is probably less resisted than mercs.  Not a huge difference, but worth noting.  I find bots tend to be a little more resilient with their shields and heals.  Don't get me wrong.. I very much love the dakka boys, but I appreciate the pewpew crew too 🙂

[Octogoat]

I can not for the life of me come up with a concept for bots/marine

[tidge]

35 minutes ago, Octogoat said:

I can not for the life of me come up with a concept for bots/marine

 

Naughty Bots.

[TygerDarkstorm]

53 minutes ago, Octogoat said:

I can not for the life of me come up with a concept for bots/marine

You can take the fish out of most of the powers, which opens up some ideas, but as a fellow concept based player, Bots are definitely one I struggle with a concept for paired with Marine.

 

Though now that I think about it, I have a bots/nature whose name is Environmentabot and whose concept is a robot based on teaching people how to be environmentally friendly and helping to rebuilt the environment. You could do a similar concept for bots/marine, but where they're supporting lakes/oceans/etc.

[evetsleep]

1 hour ago, Octogoat said:

I can not for the life of me come up with a concept for bots/marine

 

The cool thing they did, as others mentioned, is they allowed you to take fish out of the powers and also have a full range of colors to use.  For example, you could have a MM master bot which is infused with nanobots (in the form of animated black sludge) which can be used to control other robots (your minions) as well as be used offensively\defensively against foes.

 

There are a LOT of different creative things you can do with this particular powerset give the color\power customizations they made available.

[Maelwys]

13 hours ago, Octogoat said:

I can not for the life of me come up with a concept for bots/marine

[Crysis]

On 11/22/2024 at 1:26 PM, Octogoat said:

I can not for the life of me come up with a concept for bots/marine

 

 

-Navy SEALS but with advanced robotic commando's from DARPA, and outfitted with oceanic control gloves (tech, not magic)

-Go watch The Abyss.....alien tech takes over advanced undersea exploration drones.  Lots of undersea alien tech angles you could take.

-Little Mermaid but with Robots.....think "Ariels Avengers"

 

Hell, I saw a guy dressed like Moses the other night, big staff (I'm assuming it was Blackwand) who was a Robotics/Marine player.  He had these macros where he'd lift his staff and fire off Tide Pool and shout out "DO NOT BE AFRAID FOR TODAY YOU WILL SEE DELIVERANCE MY PEOPLE!" and other quasi-biblical quotes.  His name was "AQUAMOSE" or similar.

 

Let your imagination run wild!!!

[R jobbus]

44 minutes ago, Crysis said:

 

 

-Navy SEALS but with advanced robotic commando's from DARPA, and outfitted with oceanic control gloves (tech, not magic)

-Go watch The Abyss.....alien tech takes over advanced undersea exploration drones.  Lots of undersea alien tech angles you could take.

-Little Mermaid but with Robots.....think "Ariels Avengers"

 

Hell, I saw a guy dressed like Moses the other night, big staff (I'm assuming it was Blackwand) who was a Robotics/Marine player.  He had these macros where he'd lift his staff and fire off Tide Pool and shout out "DO NOT BE AFRAID FOR TODAY YOU WILL SEE DELIVERANCE MY PEOPLE!" and other quasi-biblical quotes.  His name was "AQUAMOSE" or similar.

 

Let your imagination run wild!!!

 

 @Crysis @tidge @Meknomancer

 

So I'm really having a hell of a time here. Sorry for the tags but you guys probably have alot more experience than I do with MMs. I believe I am using Crysis's ninjas build and mekno's mercs and bots builds.

 

My main question is, how in the hell do you get AVs to not run around. It's really *really* bad. The only time I can get AVs to not run around all the time is if i'm using melee MMs, and ninjas/marine is the only thing I've gotten to pass ITF +4/x8 stage 3 with being able to straight tank/defeat rommy while being buffed and rommy being debuffed. They did way better than I expected. Haven't had as much luck with demons and necro.

 

But back to my main question.. with bots and with mercs, they run and run and run. and with a group fly build for /marine, it's really difficult to fit in web envelope or other immobilize-ish powers, but would that really be able to stop them from jogging all over the place? 

 

I even tried just lowering flying pets to the ground so that they are in melee range, but rommy still just runs off. In order to actually kill him I had to clear the entire last section and just chase him for 15 minutes (And a pet got stuck on the stairs so I had to resummon...). i've even tried just turning off group fly and he will *Still* run off (not that that would even work since no kb protection at that point from evasive)

 

I've tried turning off reactive radial since I thought maybe the fire damage had something to do with it, but no dice.

 

Is there anything I can do. kind of at a loss.

 

Also thanks for any information, if it's just not meant to be that is acceptable, im just trying to do what I can. Very much appreciate the builds and help.

[Glacier Peak]

AVs are particularly weak to -Immob powers. 

[R jobbus]

3 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

AVs are particularly weak to -Immob powers. 

 

 I just tried out web envelope/ cocoon spamming and i can't believe how well that works. i shouldve tried it before.

 

now the problem is just fitting them into a build, but if my aim is to fight AVs i can make sacrifices. It actually works really well.

[tidge]

Immob usually does the trick. On my Robots build, I have zero immob powers, so the AVs running is a bit of a problem. Luckily robots are ranged, so it isn't impossible... even with a Traps secondary. GMS also scatter, but not like AVs will.

 

I probably could have a second build with Web Grenade and Web Envelope, but I'd have to make some (serious) compromises.

[Glacier Peak]

59 minutes ago, R jobbus said:

 

 I just tried out web envelope/ cocoon spamming and i can't believe how well that works. i shouldve tried it before.

 

now the problem is just fitting them into a build, but if my aim is to fight AVs i can make sacrifices. It actually works really well.

There's also Dark Mastery with a Mag 4 Single Target -Immob if you don't want to have to spam it so much. 

[R jobbus]

13 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

There's also Dark Mastery with a Mag 4 Single Target -Immob if you don't want to have to spam it so much. 

 

This sounds amazing, but there's not really a replacement for scorp shield in dark mastery is there? the shield is only fire/cold/energy or something right, there's no s/l. I want to try it though but scorp shield has been pretty useful I guess since I'm doing an ITF.

 

I also wanted to ask, it's only web envelope from mace mastery that is -immobilzing AVs right? Web cocoon is only holds and it doesn't seem to do all that much to the AV. Is web cocoon more for -fly purposes?

 

update: I was able to *finally* get mercs/marine to take out requiem, rommy and basically all the enemy spawns on the last section of a +4/x8 ITF, thank you all for the help. it was mostly web envelope that helped this so much, I should've tried it sooner. It doesn't quite work as well on rommy as it does on requiem but it still helps considerably, and is way way better than chasing him all over the place.

Edited November 24 by R jobbus

[Glacier Peak]

2 minutes ago, R jobbus said:

This sounds amazing, but there's not really a replacement for scorp shield in dark mastery is there? the shield is only fire/cold/energy or something right, there's no s/l. I want to try it though but scorp shield has been pretty useful I guess since I'm doing an ITF.

 

I also wanted to ask, it's only web envelope from mace mastery that is -immobilzing AVs right? Web cocoon is only holds and it doesn't seem to do all that much to the AV. Is web cocoon more for -fly purposes?

 

update: I was able to *finally* get mercs/marine to take out requiem, rommy and basically all the enemy spawns on the last section of a +4/x8 ITF, thank you all for the help. it was mostly web envelope that helped this so much, I should've tried it sooner. It doesn't quite work as well on rommy as it does on requiem but it still helps considerably, and is way way better than chasing him all over the place.

It sounds like you're really digging in to the way powers works to get the most out of your build - I would recommend visiting this site to get the details that aren't always reflected from the in-game power info:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/

[Meknomancer]

On 11/24/2024 at 4:55 PM, R jobbus said:

 

This sounds amazing, but there's not really a replacement for scorp shield in dark mastery is there? the shield is only fire/cold/energy or something right, there's no s/l. I want to try it though but scorp shield has been pretty useful I guess since I'm doing an ITF.

 

I also wanted to ask, it's only web envelope from mace mastery that is -immobilzing AVs right? Web cocoon is only holds and it doesn't seem to do all that much to the AV. Is web cocoon more for -fly purposes?

 

update: I was able to *finally* get mercs/marine to take out requiem, rommy and basically all the enemy spawns on the last section of a +4/x8 ITF, thank you all for the help. it was mostly web envelope that helped this so much, I should've tried it sooner. It doesn't quite work as well on rommy as it does on requiem but it still helps considerably, and is way way better than chasing him all over the place.

 

I do hate flyers so mace gets used a lot for web envelope and cocoon, fitting in cocoon and keeping group fly means sacrificing tactics and i'm not sure its worth it, i'd probably keep tactics with a couple rectified in and a cyto and move the extra slots to brine with 4 nictus pieces. That would get you to about 44.3% s/l defence.

 

Edited to add the reactive scaling piece i forgot to slot.

 

BOTS MARIN - Mastermind (Robotics - Marine Affinity).mbd

Edited December 1 by Meknomancer

[R jobbus]

On 11/24/2024 at 12:47 PM, Meknomancer said:

 

I do hate flyers so mace gets used a lot for web envelope and cocoon, fitting in cocoon and keeping group fly means sacrificing tactics and i'm not sure its worth it, i'd probably keep tactics with a couple rectified in and a cyto and move the extra slots to brine with 4 nictus pieces. That would get you to about 44.3% s/l defence.

BOTS MARIN - Mastermind (Robotics - Marine Affinity).mbd 40.87 kB · 5 downloads

 

for some reason I had barrier reef 6 slotted with reactive defenses .. is it way better to do lotg+5 panacea? I don't know why it was slotted with reactive defenses but I'm just wondering which is better. I might've referenced the wrong build

[Meknomancer]

3 hours ago, R jobbus said:

 

for some reason I had barrier reef 6 slotted with reactive defenses .. is it way better to do lotg+5 panacea? I don't know why it was slotted with reactive defenses but I'm just wondering which is better. I might've referenced the wrong build

 

My original /marine mm's ran a full reactive set in barrier reef. I was treating it like an ffg from traps and looking for recharge bonuses and defence. After seeing how other players were slotting on other AT's i've been trying different slotting. Luck of the gambler and 5 panacea. Luck of the gambler, 3 shield wall, 2 panacea/ 2 preventetives. I can't really tell if its better slotted with heals for the absorb or slotted with def pieces for the defence. I think it depends on what your running epic wise. With scorp or ice i'd want the small defence bonus as high as i could for the s/l defence. With a resist epic i would rather have the absorb boosted. Maybe. Its going to depend on your own goals when your building and what bonuses/numbers you think will suit your own build best.

[tidge]

Barrier Reef is going to be complicated with Robots.

 

1) Barrier Reef offers less defense than a FFG, but at 5%-ish (unboosted) that is still pretty good.

 

2) Robots have the Maintenance Drone, so healing is far less necessary... and while Absorb is nice, avoiding damage is better. There are a few enemies for which the Absorb might prevent an quick 2-shot kill on the henchmen. A player would have to experiment to see if it really matters for what they play.

[Meknomancer]

Testing posted build minus tactics running with envelope and cocoon and slotted for absorb and it seems fine.

Edited December 1 by Meknomancer

[R jobbus]

On 12/1/2024 at 1:50 PM, Meknomancer said:

Testing posted build minus tactics running with envelope and cocoon and slotted for absorb and it seems fine.

 

One thing I was curious about. When I fought only stage 3 rommy with bots/marine and I only used web envelope.. he didn't get -immobilized once, like maybe a single time for 1 second. But it worked great on requiem and completely -immobilized him the whole fight.

 

however, on mercs/marine I spammed web envelope and web cocoon on rommy and he actually did get -immobilized very consistently.... but I'm pretty sure envelope was the only thing that had -immobil in it. So I'm a bit confused. Does cocoon actually have some -immobilize in it that's not listed or something. I was using them slotted the way that you slot them.

 

Or is it a thing where the same AVs can spawn with varying degrees of status resistance? like is it a %chance that some of their stats will be in a certain range or something per spawn? both times it was +4/x8.

 

When I was on mercs/marine,  I'm pretty sure envelope was the only thing triggering -immobile like, as i was watching after the shot. So I am just curious about your/anyones thoughts on this

[Meknomancer]

1 hour ago, R jobbus said:

 

One thing I was curious about. When I fought only stage 3 rommy with bots/marine and I only used web envelope.. he didn't get -immobilized once, like maybe a single time for 1 second. But it worked great on requiem and completely -immobilized him the whole fight.

 

however, on mercs/marine I spammed web envelope and web cocoon on rommy and he actually did get -immobilized very consistently.... but I'm pretty sure envelope was the only thing that had -immobil in it. So I'm a bit confused. Does cocoon actually have some -immobilize in it that's not listed or something. I was using them slotted the way that you slot them.

 

Or is it a thing where the same AVs can spawn with varying degrees of status resistance? like is it a %chance that some of their stats will be in a certain range or something per spawn? both times it was +4/x8.

 

When I was on mercs/marine,  I'm pretty sure envelope was the only thing triggering -immobile like, as i was watching after the shot. So I am just curious about your/anyones thoughts on this

 

I have none. I don't take a lot of notice or do numbers when it comes to av resistances to stuff like that. I do know Rommy is particularly susceptible to slows which cocoon does. But i only know this from years of playing kinetics and hitting him with siphon speed. I can only make assumptions. Web envelope recharging faster on the mercs allowing you to reapply it faster? Try slotting it with 5 grav anchor or something similar if you haven't, i just use it for slow res and some procs for damage vs mobs because i hate flyers, its not gonna make a lot of difference dps'wise vs a +4 av.

 

My testing on the bots/marine was just messing about in general content and teams i haven't tried it solo vs anything except the seed of hammi and i couldn't get it below 70% before it popped all its buffs back up. I didn't see the point in trying it against standard gm's/av's that i know it will beat and its the winter event so i'm working thru about 600 toons on 4 servers.

 

There's a lot more knowledgeable players about this stuff, hope 1 of them can help.