All Level Radio Content in All Zones

[tidge]

The blue side Tip missions which I remember pretty much always being in specific zones:

 

The level 20-29 Desdemona mission is in Talos Island (9 times out of 10).

 

The level 40-50 Mister Phipps mission is in Independence Port (9 times out of ten) at the same helicopter.

 

The Ghost Widow Vigilante Morality mission (40-50) is often in Peregrine Island, at the same ship.

 

I want to say that there is another mission in the 20-29 range (blue side) which doesn't seem to have a set zone, but often will be in a different zone from wherever I take it.

[OEM61]

17 hours ago, srmalloy said:

This could be addressed by having an option flag that would cause your radio missions to generate for any zone up to your level, so that if you were level 50, you could get a radio mission that might send you to any zone in Paragon City, and if you were level 25, you could be sent to any zone up to Talos Island/Independence Port. "Realistically", police radio requests should be able to be picked up outside the zone where the trouble is occurring, and requesting help of a level appropriate to the threat. If you don't set the option, you get radios as they are now, only in the zone you're in, and only in a level-appropriate zone. Having the radio missions randomize across the city prevents people from cherry-picking the zone for the mobs to fight.

I like this one.

It's all instanced anyway, it's one "city" with multiple "districts" so it's not like the radio wouldn't have range or the paper wouldn't cover the stories.

I could get my missions and safeguards in any zone I am eligible for.  I don't get to control that.  If I am in Peregrine Island but elect to save poor old Stephen Fayte then I go to wherever Stephen Fayte is being held, whether that is KR or Steel Canyon or anywhere else.

I would hope that they could just use villains of the appropriate levels, so they may be limited, but the missions and zones shouldn't have to be.
I am just trying to avoid anyone getting caught up having to exemp down, so rather than forcing you to have to fight Vahzilok and exemp you down from 45 to 14 or whatever, replace the Vahzilok with a level appropriate group.

Still, if the choice was to exemp down for some missions but keep all radio missions in all zones available then I would be for it.

And by "all zones" I am not asking for zones that aren't otherwise eligible, even.  I just mean let me get those missions in any zone that offered me those missions at any time.  If they want to expand eligible zones then so be it, but it isn't necessary to me.

If I happen to out-level some safeguard zone now I have to rely upon happening to hear someone offering to run radios in that zone or having to ask for the same and hoping someone agrees.  I am not opposed to this sort of teaming, but I am not the most socially outgoing person in the world, so for me it would have to come down to waiting to hear someone offering.

As it is?  I just deleted a 50 yesterday to start over because I screwed up the radio badges. 
I hope I don't screw up anything else this time, or at least remember/figure it out before it's too late to do anything about it.

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, OEM61 said:

If I happen to out-level some safeguard zone now I have to rely upon happening to hear someone offering to run radios in that zone or having to ask for the same and hoping someone agrees.  I am not opposed to this sort of teaming, but I am not the most socially outgoing person in the world, so for me it would have to come down to waiting to hear someone offering.

If you get the Hero Slayer badge, Lord Schweinzer will give you all the mayhems with no paper missions required to get them. If you get the Villain Disruptor badge, Agent Hassell will give you all the safeguards with no radio missions required to get them.

 

Hero Slayer and Villain Disruptor  can be earned by defeating 25 signature enemies, and the number of enemies that count has been greatly expanded so you aren't limited to mayhems or safeguards to get them.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Hero_Slayer_Badge

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Villain_Disruptor_Badge

 

10 minutes ago, OEM61 said:

As it is?  I just deleted a 50 yesterday to start over because I screwed up the radio badges. 

What radio badges?

[OEM61]

28 minutes ago, Rudra said:

If you get the Hero Slayer badge, Lord Schweinzer will give you all the mayhems with no paper missions required to get them. If you get the Villain Disruptor badge, Agent Hassell will give you all the safeguards with no radio missions required to get them.

 

Hero Slayer and Villain Disruptor  can be earned by defeating 25 signature enemies, and the number of enemies that count has been greatly expanded so you aren't limited to mayhems or safeguards to get them.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Hero_Slayer_Badge

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Villain_Disruptor_Badge

 

What radio badges?

The exploration badges within the safeguard zones.

Only way I knew how to get those would be to tag along with someone doing those safeguard missions.

As I said, I am not good with asking people for stuff, so I was thinking I would have to just hang out and wait for someone to offer up slots in the safeguard missions in all of the appropriate zones.
The other ones (Bomb Squad, Interceptor, etc.) I thought that I could pick up after enough repetition in any safeguard, but the exploration badges I would have to be in the specific safeguards, so bye-bye 50, hello re-roll.
I had a hard time seeing myself just sitting in AP waiting until someone offered up a safeguard, and then moving to KR and repeating, and SC and repeating, and...

But you have provided some potentially educational links, so I will read up on those later on (about to hit the rack).

Thank you for the links.

[UltraAlt]

On 12/3/2024 at 11:38 AM, Steampunkette said:

I mean... the title's it.

 

Let my level 50 character do radio mishies in Cap Au Diable and Brickstown.

 

Add a "Holochannel" for Praetorian Zones to do radio mishies there, too.

 

Still the same old madlibs content generation, just anywhere in the world. Even Hazard and PvP Zones because who the heck cares if someone wants to run around Recluse's Victory fighting pockets of Council or Circle of Thorns bases on instanced maps?

 

I put an idea over here:

 

 

... for a path on this that the DEVs might be more on board with as it doesn't require scaling up enemy groups that weren't meant for higher level content nor adding more missions to the existing system.

 

I guess in some ways it is opposite of what you are suggesting as it would level-down characters that want to participate in the radio/newspaper/? mission path structure, but it would allow characters that have reached the level of the content of a zone that has access to  be exemplar'ed down (if need be) so that they do not exceed the level of the content of the zone in order to run missions in the the radio/newspaper/? system that already exists.

 

Why do I believe this more possible and more easily executed than what you are suggesting?

It allows the same missions that already exist for the radio/newspaper/?  with no need to add additional missions or re-scale the enemies.

All it requires is setting up a contact in each zone that would normally provide radio/newspaper/? missions (maybe just one zone to start with to test it out) that would work as a contact for the radio/newspaper/? taskforce that is tied into the existing radio/newspaper/? system so that it can pull missions from it.

Essentially it worked the way that the Ouroboros system works.

It seems far less complicated to implement than the other way around.

[tidge]

2 hours ago, OEM61 said:

The exploration badges within the safeguard zones.

Only way I knew how to get those would be to tag along with someone doing those safeguard missions.

As I said, I am not good with asking people for stuff, so I was thinking I would have to just hang out and wait for someone to offer up slots in the safeguard missions in all of the appropriate zones.
The other ones (Bomb Squad, Interceptor, etc.) I thought that I could pick up after enough repetition in any safeguard, but the exploration badges I would have to be in the specific safeguards, so bye-bye 50, hello re-roll.
I had a hard time seeing myself just sitting in AP waiting until someone offered up a safeguard, and then moving to KR and repeating, and SC and repeating, and...

But you have provided some potentially educational links, so I will read up on those later on (about to hit the rack).

Thank you for the links.

 

The exploration badges for both Hero and Villain Safeguard/Mayhem ALL ZONES are all part of what you can get at level 50 by using the contacts @Rudra mentioned.

 

Thankfully, a somewhat recent patch established that for certain defeats it is easier to get appropriate credit: previously it was only certain enemies in Safeguard/Mayhem, and some oddball missions like on the Khan TF and the Brickstown "Who Will Die?" that counted.

 

For level 50s, i believe that the highest level safeguard/mayhem offers content for all of the possible Mayhem/Safeguard badges: Blue has A jailbreak, arson, shop, weapons deal, Red has its versions, plus PPD Civilians, a vault door (natch), etc. A level 50 could repeat those missions to unlock the needed contacts, but it was a bit of a PITA before that (somewhat recent) change.

 

[Steampunkette]

On 12/3/2024 at 8:55 PM, Dev Unitas said:

So while I understand the desire, this is one of those suggestions that, for me personally (and not the whole team necessarily), I currently think would be a design decision that would come to the detriment of the game. Radio missions being locked to level ranges encourages players to move through the city. If all radio missions were level agnostic, it would lead to players picking the most optimal zone for its doors/enemies/etc and sticking to it. You already see that at 40+ (and even broader when accounting for sidekicking) - players could be in a variety of places, (Grandville, Peregrine, or even the repeatables in Cimerora x2, Dark Astoria, Shadow Shard - understandably) but they almost always prioritize Peregrine.

 

Typically broad-touch level scaling in games does the opposite of what it sets out to achieve, because most players follow the crowd, and the crowd follows the lead, and the lead will usually seek out optimal play. It also robs the implicit sense of progression that comes from moving from one space to the next. If we were to implement this, I would predict 80-90% of radio groups would take place in one zone- whichever they determine is the most optimal for radio missions in that setup. Suddenly, the devs have a motivation to try and bring all radio missions in all zones on par with eachother - a colossal effort that also increases homogeneity as a result.

 

Of course, this is all, itself, a statement painting with very broad strokes. There are always exceptions, and there are always ways to do things better, and perhaps the gains outweigh the losses in the right circumstances. Nevertheless, that's where I personally stand on this sort of change.

And none of what I've said means we'd never do it- it would just come with a lot of debate, conversation and potential problem-solving internally, most likely.

People go to Peregrine for three reasons:

 

1) If you're level 40+ your options for running Radio missions (which are what is constantly advertised in LFG) your options are very limited.

 

2) Most players are Blueside.

 

3) Shadow Shard is difficult to maneuver around.

 

The density of the mission doors doesn't need to be optimal with these key factors in play. Sure, Dark Astoria could be the preferred zone for radio missions, especially with the incarnate reward options, but then you have to explain how to get to Dark Astoria to newbs.

 

Thanks to the Tunnel portal, Peregrine doesn't really have that problem. Level 1 character needs to get carried? Hit the portal to Peregrine and you're golden. Meanwihle Cimerora requires jumping through a few gates to go in.

 

With this change, we'd probably see a -lot- more hero teams running around Atlas Park (highest filler population)... But is that -really- a problem when most hero teams run exclusively in Peregrine Island, already? In that regard it's just shifting where the Radio Teams spamming for players hang out to wherever it's easier to be.

 

But for people who enjoy specific zones, or want to do a ton of content hanging out in Praetoria post-20, or make their supergroup a "Zone Hero Team" that mostly targets crime in a single place for RP purposes? It's a major boon. Plus people could do radio mishies cross-factionally in Kallisti Wharf, maybe, which could be fun and might result in it becoming a bit of a hub-zone just for a new place to spam radios!

 

So on one hand we've got a boon for RPers and for Variety for anyone who wants it, and on the other hand we've got people making Atlas Park the heart of the game instead of Peregrine Island.

 

That doesn't seem like a heavier thumb on a "Downside", to me.

Edited December 5 by Steampunkette

[Andreah]

5 hours ago, OEM61 said:

As it is?  I just deleted a 50 yesterday to start over because I screwed up the radio badges. 

OMG No!!!

 

Read Rudra's reply about Lord Schweinzer and Agent Hassell!

 

It might be nice if those two contacts also offered random radio missions in any zone, too. Maybe their bank missions could be prefaced with a couple radios to be made into short arcs, although I could see why people would hate that.

[SaxyGuitar]

I agree level restrictions on zone repeatable missions make sense. Move to a new city is a nice feeling of progress.

 

However redside lvl 50 zone Grandville is unfriendly to low levels. Making it hard to run them with low level teammates like blues side paper missions. I've had plenty of times, because of it's 3 dimensional design it was hard for people to get around. Someone didn't have fly, got sniped out of the sky by the highly perceptive turrets, or just got lost. The temp power fly you get at level two has help, but I'd recommend one other zone that can easy do repeatable lvl 41-50 missions. 

 

I love Grandville it has this eerie you've made it to the top feel, so i dont want it to change. But if you drop a lvl 1 new playing in PI and one in Grands one is a more enjoyable/easy experience getting around.

 

Edit: it might be a little off topic. And if I had to pick what city that was I'd go with Cap.

Edited December 5 by SaxyGuitar
Added more

[Megawatt]

if not this...can i finally get 'Focused Investigations'/'Vendettas' that let us pick certain groups to force the paper/scanner to generate for with in their level range ? 'but people will use it to farm' they already Farm, it already happens. unless you make paper missions give no XP they will continue to Farm. i'd like to exclusively fight Arachnos and groups like them and never. see. a. circle. mage. again!

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

With this change, we'd probably see a -lot- more hero teams running around Atlas Park (highest filler population)... But is that -really- a problem when most hero teams run exclusively in Peregrine Island, already?

Yes, for the same reason AE was taken out of Atlas Park.

[Steampunkette]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Yes, for the same reason AE was taken out of Atlas Park.

With the AE you stand inside a single building entering and exiting a column of light.

 

At least with papers you'd be running around the zone fighting crime!

[Rudra]

26 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Yes, for the same reason AE was taken out of Atlas Park.

With the AE you stand inside a single building entering and exiting a column of light.

 

At least with papers you'd be running around the zone fighting crime!

It wasn't the leveling in a single building that got AE taken out of Atlas Park. You can still do that in Pocket D. Just go to Pocket D at level 1 and then not leave the AE area until you're level 50 with all incarnate slots unlocked. It was the leveling to level 50 without ever leaving the starting zone and so having no clue there were other zones or how to get to them. At least level 1s going to Peregrine Island to join radios and level to 50 in the one zone still requires players to learn there are other zones and how to get to them.

[Steampunkette]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It wasn't the leveling in a single building that got AE taken out of Atlas Park. You can still do that in Pocket D. Just go to Pocket D at level 1 and then not leave the AE area until you're level 50 with all incarnate slots unlocked. It was the leveling to level 50 without ever leaving the starting zone and so having no clue there were other zones or how to get to them. At least level 1s going to Peregrine Island to join radios and level to 50 in the one zone still requires players to learn there are other zones and how to get to them.

Okay...

 

So leave Atlas and Mercy out.

 

Problem solved!

[Rudra]

26 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Okay...

 

So leave Atlas and Mercy out.

 

Problem solved!

At least until players start complaining that they can do radios/papers regardless of their level while staying in a single specific zone except for Atlas Park and Mercy Island.

[OEM61]

10 hours ago, Andreah said:

OMG No!!!

 

Read Rudra's reply about Lord Schweinzer and Agent Hassell!

 

It might be nice if those two contacts also offered random radio missions in any zone, too. Maybe their bank missions could be prefaced with a couple radios to be made into short arcs, although I could see why people would hate that.

Too late now.

I'll read it, as I thanked them for the info, but the toon was already gone.

I've forgotten a lot of the old things.  I'll remember them in time.
And there are the new things that I will learn.  I'll get there.

But I never meant to sidetrack the discussion.

4 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Okay...

 

So leave Atlas and Mercy out.

 

Problem solved!

That was why I suggested that the missions randomize the zones if they do this.

I can hear about an emergency in Skyway City while sitting in Independence Port, or about something in King's Row while tuning in while on Peregrine Island.

It would force radio/newspaper teams to move.

If there was a flagging option for running the old missions, anyway, and that is the only way that I would do it.

If someone wants to run missions in some specific zone then they would need to find a level-appropriate character, set them as the lead, and everyone SK or exemp to that level and just run missions like you do now.  Nothing would change there.

If you just, as an individual or team or whatever, wanted to run missions in any zone at your current level, though, then you would need to be prepared to run missions in every zone.
You would have to go to the missions rather than have the missions go to you.

But that's just my take on doing this.  It may have all sorts of problems I am not seeing, aside from the obvious system changes they would have to make.

Edited December 6 by OEM61

[Steampunkette]

  

15 minutes ago, Rudra said:

At least until players start complaining that they can do radios/papers regardless of their level while staying in a single specific zone except for Atlas Park and Mercy Island.

Eh. Not my monkeys, not my zoo.

 

If the dev team want people to go to other zones to experience the game world, and they all go to precisely one zone, and that's acceptable, surely allowing them to go to various other zones to experience the game world shouldn't really be a problem.

 

It's up to them to continue their argument that AP should not be the zone people level in, not me.

2 minutes ago, OEM61 said:

That was why I suggested that the missions randomize the zones if they do this.

I can hear about an emergency in Skyway City while sitting in Independence Port, or about something in King's Row while tuning in while on Peregrine Island.

It would force radio/newspaper teams to move.

If there was a flagging option for running the old missions, anyway, and that is the only way that I would do it.

If someone wants to run missions in some specific zone then they would need to find a level-appropriate character, set them as the lead, and everyone SK or exemp to that level and just run missions like you do now.  Nothing would change there.

If you just, as an individual or team or whatever, wanted to run missions in any zone at your current level, though, then you would need to be prepared to run missions in every zone.
You would have to go to the missions rather than have the missions go to you.

But that's just my take on doing this.  It may have all sorts of problems I am not seeing, aside from the obvious system changes they would have to make.

The issue, there, is that people level using papers and radios. Which is why they stay in the zone you're in.

 

A level 15 character getting sent to Talos Island is going to be bouncing to the hospital, repeatedly, while trying to get to their mish.

[OEM61]

Just now, Steampunkette said:

  

Eh. Not my monkeys, not my zoo.

 

If the dev team want people to go to other zones to experience the game world, and they all go to precisely one zone, and that's acceptable, surely allowing them to go to various other zones to experience the game world shouldn't really be a problem.

 

It's up to them to continue their argument that AP should not be the zone people level in, not me.

The issue, there, is that people level using papers and radios. Which is why they stay in the zone you're in.

 

A level 15 character getting sent to Talos Island is going to be bouncing to the hospital, repeatedly, while trying to get to their mish.

But a level 15 wouldn't be sent to Talos.  At least not on their own or when teaming with similarly-leveled players.

You would only ever have access to mission zones that you are eligible for in my ideal.  Again, maybe that makes it impossible for the game to implement, but you would be level-gated.

If you were a level 24 hero then you would only get radio missions in  King's Row, Steel Canyon, or Skyway City.

They may have to further modify the required number of radio/paper missions to get a safeguard mission based upon character level.  Use the current system as a guide for how many at what level, but disconnect them from the zones.

Makes it even more complicated, makes it less likely, but that is my ideal.

[Dev Unitas]

39 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

If the dev team want people to go to other zones to experience the game world, and they all go to precisely one zone, and that's acceptable, surely allowing them to go to various other zones to experience the game world shouldn't really be a problem.

Never said it was acceptable, necessarily. Quite the opposite. My point is that, for the majority of players, this would not fix the issue and it would have a negative impact on the game's levelling flow, as well as the metagame. Chasing the meta, by joining a group in an easier zone to spam max level papers/radio, would become easier and more accessible for low level players than it currently already is to make one's way to Peregrine. I predict substantially more players would gravitate to the 'optimal' radio/paper zone than they already do.

 

While yes, max level players would have more places to do radio/paper missions and that would bring more possible variety, we can (and want to) find other ways to provide that, and with (hopefully) more interesting content than the existing paper/radio missions from 18 years ago.

[Andreah]

I asked an AI to review this thread and distill/suggest "Simple, Low-Effort/High-Gain" solutions from it.

 

Quote

Low-Effort, High-Gain Solutions?

 

The sources and our conversation history don't explicitly suggest any "simple, low-effort, high-gain" solutions that perfectly address the concerns of both players and developers regarding "All Level Radio Content." The discussion highlights the complexity of the issue and the potential trade-offs involved in any proposed solution.

 

However, some ideas that emerge from the conversation could be considered relatively less demanding to implement while offering potential benefits:

 

1. Expanding Existing Contact Functionality:

 

Utilizing Lord Schweinzer and Agent Hassell: These contacts already provide all Mayhem and Safeguard missions without requiring paper or radio missions. Expanding their functionality to offer randomized radio missions from any zone could address the desire for variety without extensive system overhauls.

 

Potential Benefits: This leverages existing mechanics and contacts familiar to players. It would require adding new mission options to these contacts but wouldn't involve creating entirely new systems.

 

2. Refining the Tip Mission System:

 

Addressing Inconsistent Zone Assignment: While some players report inconsistencies with Tip missions occasionally assigning them to the same zone where they picked up the Tip, this behavior isn't reliable. Further investigation and potential adjustments to the Tip mission system to make this zone-specific assignment more consistent could partially address the desire for zone-specific content at higher levels.

 

Potential Benefits: This would involve fine-tuning an existing system rather than building something entirely new. It could provide a less complex way to increase player agency over zone selection without disrupting the core radio/newspaper mission structure.

 

3. Implementing an Optional "Focused Investigations" Feature:

 

Limiting Enemy Group Selection: As suggested, a feature allowing players to select specific enemy groups within their level range could add a layer of customization to radio/newspaper missions. This wouldn't grant full control over zone selection but would provide more agency and variety.

 

Potential Benefits: This feature could be implemented as an additional filter or option within the existing mission selection process, minimizing system-level changes.

 

Important Considerations:

 

Even these potentially less demanding solutions would still require development time and resources. Their "high-gain" aspect is subjective and depends on player preferences and developer priorities.

 

It's also crucial to note that these ideas:

 

• Don't Address All Concerns: They might not fully resolve the issues of leveling flow and potential meta-gaming.
• Require Testing and Iteration: Their implementation would require careful testing to ensure balance and prevent unintended consequences.
• Might Not Be Considered "Simple" by Developers: What appears simple from a player perspective might involve complexities on the development side.

 

Ultimately, the determination of "simple, low-effort, high-gain" solutions rests with the developers' assessment of feasibility and alignment with their overall design goals.

 

Edited December 5 by Andreah