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HC needs to develop a policy on memorials.

Greycat

By Greycat
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Posted by Widower,

Well, okay, but don't say I didn't warn you.   It has been the consensus of the team for a number of years now that additional memorial NPCs, ala Coyote or Ascendant, will not be added. There are a variety of reasons for this; the favoritism angle, the whole complex of questions around verification and privacy and consent, and the very high odds that we will get it wrong in a way that makes everyone feel some combination of bad, sad and mad. The only potential exception would be if som
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Rudra

Rudra

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Kistulot said:
29 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Except the devs did give you a response and the devs explained why. Your incapability or unwillingness to accept the response, denying it addresses the underlying issues it was obviously meant to address, comes across as "That was the wrong answer, devs. Now give me the correct one."

 

They did not respond to my response, and I consider that unsatisfactory.

 

They explained their points and I countered them.

 

If you think that there's nothing more to be said then you're probably better off doing anything else with your time than posting to tell me I'm wasting my time when it's probably pretty clear that's not going to sway me.

The devs have zero obligation to respond to anything. You actually got a response. Most of us never do. You even got a reason behind that response. From multiple individuals with "dev" or "council" in their name displays. Of those that get dev responses, that is pretty much unheard of. The devs don't come into the forums looking to debate us. They come into the forums to see what we are debating and only if there is no other recourse do they directly involve themselves. The devs have given their response and even given you more of a response than they normally give when they do respond. It doesn't matter if you find them not responding to your response to their response to be unsatisfactory. They don't even usually respond on the threads they start unless there is a definitive need to.

 

And telling others to move on rather than stay involved tells the devs that even your comment that you will discuss the topic with them cordially and respectfully if only they would just engage with you in private messages or other discourse isn't meant.

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Excraft

Excraft

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Kistulot said:

I am disagreeing with this stance, disagreeing with its backing points, and the options presented to supposedly get around this situation are often either impossible or miss the point entirely.

 

None of which is going to change the outcome.  I know you're grieving and upset about not getting what you hoped for, but arguing with the HC people isn't going to change anything. 

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Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

...but arguing with the HC people isn't going to change anything. 

 

If you believe this is true, then I posit this:

 

arguing with me as you have been, oft ignoring the actual words I say, is not going to change me, either.

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ScarySai

ScarySai

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Kistulot said:

 

I didn't.

 

Yeah uh, this was kind of the problem. Greycat's protest thread got a response and the actual thread didn't, lol.

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Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

Yeah uh, this was kind of the problem. Greycat's protest thread got a response and the actual thread didn't, lol.

 

Then the response to that was completely ignored, which uh.

 

If we're worrying about favoritism...

 

...I dunno!

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Excraft

Excraft

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Kistulot said:

arguing with me as you have been, oft ignoring the actual words I say, is not going to change me, either.

 

I'm not trying to change your mind.  You're certainly welcome to express your thoughts and suggestions here as much as you like.  I'm not the one requesting others "stay out of it" though.

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ZacKing

ZacKing

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Yeah uh, this was kind of the problem. Greycat's protest thread got a response and the actual thread didn't, lol.

 

So you'd like a GM or HC Council member to post "Sorry, but no" in your "official" request thread so you can complain about them in that thread too?  Just want to make sure. 

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Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

I'm not trying to change your mind.  You're certainly welcome to express your thoughts and suggestions here as much as you like.  I'm not the one requesting others "stay out of it" though.

 

Considering  I can no more control what you ultimately do than you can me, it's a suggestion. It's not like I have any authority here.

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ZacKing

ZacKing

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kistulot said:

They did not respond to my response, and I consider that unsatisfactory.

 

They explained their points and I countered them.

 

If you think that there's nothing more to be said then you're probably better off doing anything else with your time than posting to tell me I'm wasting my time when it's probably pretty clear that's not going to sway me.

 

I can understand why HC doesn't continue the discussion.  I wouldn't want to get into a protracted, endless debate with unhappy players who are going to be upset no matter what I say or do.  It's lose lose no matter what for them. 

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Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

I can understand why HC doesn't continue the discussion.  I wouldn't want to get into a protracted, endless debate with unhappy players who are going to be upset no matter what I say or do.  It's lose lose no matter what for them. 

 

I don't see anywhere where they said they weren't going to continue the discussion.

 

They could very well be crafting a carefully worded response right now.

 

I don't think you should be speaking for them any more than I should be.

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Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
Posted

Since it keeps being assumed, I'm going to be clear:

 

I'm not offended, nor furious, nor any other similar thing about the fact that the memorial was rejected.

 

I have a counter argument to the rationale put forth for why it was. I take issue, as said elsewhere, with the way this has been handled and the way that bad actors who do not explicitly violate rules by calling other people doody heads are treated.

 

Rational discussion of something that was reopened by a GM is not abuse.

 

If you believe anyone is being outright abusive, please use the report function.

 

Attacking each other will not get us anywhere, and nor will changing what's said because that version is easier to argue against.

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UltraAlt

UltraAlt

Posted
Posted

@Kistulot

Players do have the power to implement things in this game ourselves with the tools that we have been given.

We do have ways to build their own memorials in game for those that have left us.

It could be in a base, and it definitely could be an AE mission(s).

 

A base could be built for a single character memorial. A based could be built a memorial in general with simply a listing of names. Could even have a passcode Memorial-[insert base number here]. A single room in a supergroup's base could be made a memorial.

 

An AE mission could even be labelled as a "memorial" either in a title and/or a new [xxxx] tag (if there already isn't one). It could feature the player's most known character(s) and there is plenty of space for dialog and lore about one of our fallen players and their character(s).

 

I think a memorial AE mission is the most forward facing. I think that would be the easiest to find if people were looking for it. You're not just going to stumble upon a base with a memorial, but, through naming and/or tagging of an AE mission, people that wanted to look for memorials could easily find them with a search.

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

@Kistulot

Players do have the power to implement things in this game ourselves with the tools that we have been given.

We do have ways to build their own memorials in game for those that have left us.

It could be in a base, and it definitely could be an AE mission(s).

 

A base could be built for a single character memorial. A based could be built a memorial in general with simply a listing of names. Could even have a passcode Memorial-[insert base number here]. A single room in a supergroup's base could be made a memorial.

 

An AE mission could even be labelled as a "memorial" either in a title and/or a new [xxxx] tag (if there already isn't one). It could feature the player's most known character(s) and there is plenty of space for dialog and lore about one of our fallen players and their character(s).

 

I think a memorial AE mission is the most forward facing. I think that would be the easiest to find if people were looking for it. You're not just going to stumble upon a base with a memorial, but, through naming and/or tagging of an AE mission, people that wanted to look for memorials could easily find them with a search.

 

Instead of responding to things I already have

 

 

 

UltraAlt

UltraAlt

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Kistulot said:

Instead of responding to things I already have

 

I didn't read through this whole thread.

I have already posted some of the ideas that I posted in previous threads about this.

 

Maybe I'm just another voice of reason to say that you have tools and should use them instead of putting pressure on those that volunteer their time to keep this game running.

 

Maybe you don't care and just want to argue.

I don't really care. I made my point. Dismiss it if you like.

I'm not going to be the one to keep this thread going when it is at its end.

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

Kistulot

Kistulot

Posted
Posted
Just now, UltraAlt said:

I didn't read through this whole thread.


Addressing someone without reading all of their points is a waste of your time, and a waste of my time.

 

1 minute ago, UltraAlt said:

I'm not going to be the one to keep this thread going when it is at its end.

 

The thread was explicitly reopened.

 

If the only people with the authority to end the thread close it again, then it will be ended.

 

Thank you for your time.

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Arcanum

Arcanum

Posted
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Posted

Hi everyone! So while we were hoping that by re-opening this thread, the conversation would continue in a productive and fruitful manner, it seems at this point we're just circling the same points and onto our usual shenanigans, so I'm closing this thread.

The TL;DR for those who missed it, is that Homecoming is not currently adding memorial characters to the game (see Cipher's post here for more information on that). While there have been many discussions today for solutions to put options in player hands, it will require time and effort from the devs to implement some of the ideas. We ask for your patience while we explore all of the conversations discussed (because yes, we do read what's being posted).


Thanks to everyone who proactively contributed to the conversation to help towards a resolution!

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