Should All Melees

[venetiasilver]

Have the Same Arc radials as the Tanker per the Gauntlet Buff a few years back?
Not the same Target Cap but at least the same Radius Buff?

[kelika2]

Nah, Battle Axe has a nice solution of turning all melee cones into target aoes.

 

[Uun]

There's a pretty wide variation in arc and radius for melee cones and PBAoEs. Gauntlet simply gave tanks a 50% buff to whatever those are (with some powers specifically excluded). 

[JJDrakken]

Nope.

 

Each Melee has it's thing.  Reason Tankers got a buff, there thing was Threat.  They got the buff to help facilitate that better.

 

Scrappers thing is Random Crits

 

Brutes is increasing it's damage by fighting

 

Stalkers is sneaking around and controlled Crits.

Edited March 2 by JJDrakken

[Naraka]

Ah man, I remember discussing buffs for Tankers to make them relevant way before the gauntlet changes.  The reason I suggested giving Tankers bigger AoEs was so they could skip picking up taunt (if they wanted to) and just use their AoEs as well as giving them the benefit of not needing to reposition once they got that aggro.  It's an indirect damage buff to AoEs *IF* you hit more foes.

 

Another point I outlined is it's a scale of AoE to ST effectiveness.  It goes Tanker >> Brute >> Scrapper >> Stalker.

 

Stalkers often get the short end of the stick by outright lacking AoEs in their offensive and defensive pools but they get a boost in ST damage thanks to the effectiveness of Assassin's Strike + Assassin's Focus.  Scrappers give up a slight ST advantage to get higher overall DPS via AoE and strong ST with crits but it doesn't get taunt in its damage auras + it has less defensiveness to be able to stick around in hoards of enemies to do the AoEs.  Brutes are next, putting conditions on their peak damage and giving them high caps + taunt meaning they can stick around in hoards easier and get benefit for more damage but the build-up and drop off of fury when you're only dealing with 1 foe means the ramp up will always hinder burst.  Finally, Tanker has the lowest damage, both ST and AoE, but they gain a simple advantage with slightly higher AoE DPS and ease of attracting and staying in crowds.  Once those crowds are gone and you're dealing with a single strong foe, you've only got the -res and defense.

 

Ultimately, the buff was multifaceted, but I always argued it was to help differentiate each melee AT's melee powerset. Stalker's sets vary and have their strengths and weaknesses but that's what makes Stalker fun.  Same with all the other AT's sets.  Embrace those differences and select which you want to use with those differences in mind.

[Uun]

16 hours ago, Naraka said:

Scrappers give up a slight ST advantage to get higher overall DPS via AoE and strong ST with crits but it doesn't get taunt in its damage auras + it has less defensiveness to be able to stick around in hoards of enemies to do the AoEs. 

6 of the 14 scrapper secondaries have taunt auras (Bio, Energy, Invulnerability, Radiation, Shield, Willpower).

[Naraka]

On 3/2/2025 at 12:35 PM, Uun said:

6 of the 14 scrapper secondaries have taunt auras (Bio, Energy, Invulnerability, Radiation, Shield, Willpower).

 

Are those taunt auras also damage auras?

[lemming]

5 hours ago, Naraka said:

Are those taunt auras also damage auras?

Energy, Inv, Shield, and Willpower don't.  (Unless you put a damage proc in them)

[Uun]

5 hours ago, Naraka said:

Are those taunt auras also damage auras?

Of those 6 sets, only Bio has a damage aura (although it's a different power). Those sets don't have damage auras on brutes or tanks either. You're correct that the other 5 sets with damage auras don't have taunt auras on scrappers. My point is that there are options for taunt auras on scrappers. 

[Naraka]

11 hours ago, Uun said:

Of those 6 sets, only Bio has a damage aura (although it's a different power). Those sets don't have damage auras on brutes or tanks either. You're correct that the other 5 sets with damage auras don't have taunt auras on scrappers. My point is that there are options for taunt auras on scrappers. 

 

I know that Scrappers have buff/debuff auras that have a taunt element...that's why my initial post specifically said "damage auras".  The post was describing the differences between the ATs' sets, i.e. why Tankers get some extra range on their AoEs.

[Uun]

33 minutes ago, Naraka said:

I know that Scrappers have buff/debuff auras that have a taunt element...that's why my initial post specifically said "damage auras".  The post was describing the differences between the ATs' sets, i.e. why Tankers get some extra range on their AoEs.

Damage auras aren't a distinguishing factor. Only 6 of the 11 tank primaries and 13 brute secondaries have damage auras. ALL of the tank primaries and brute secondaries have taunt auras. 

[Naraka]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

Damage auras aren't a distinguishing factor. 

 

They are. I literally just described the distinguishing factors between them.

[aethereal]

I think Naraka's framing of the point is a little strange, but it seems valid to say, "Scrappers generally don't get both a taunt aura and a damage aura in their armor, with bio as the lone exception."

 

I take Uun's point to be that that's somewhat coincidental: there was no design principle that forbade scrappers from having damage and taunt auras, it's just how it worked out.

 

But, bio aside, it did work out that way.

Edited March 6 by aethereal

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, aethereal said:

I think Naraka's framing of the point is a little strange, but it seems valid to say, "Scrappers generally don't get both a taunt aura and a damage aura in their armor, with bio as the lone exception."

 

I take Uun's point to be that that's somewhat coincidental: there was no design principle that forbade scrappers from having damage and taunt auras, it's just how it worked out.

 

But, bio aside, it did work out that way.

 

It's not a coincidence, it's by design. They designed it so that Scrapper's aptitude for aggro is less than either Brute or Tanker.  It's reflected in lack of punchvoke, weaker taunt in buff/debuff auras, single target Confront vs AoE Taunt and no taunt in damage auras.

 

The reason I even mentioned taunt in damage auras is primarily for the stickiness of the effect so you can capitalize on those AoEs. In solo play, it's not as big of a deal, but in team play, this can make it harder to fully saturate AoEs in various team set-ups, which is the crux of the point: aggro-hogs can get better use of certain AoEs and Tanker gets range on said AoEs. Some might call that "synergy".  It's a synergistic buff to Tanker damage that doesn't step on the toes of other melee AT's niche.

[aethereal]

40 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

It's not a coincidence, it's by design. They designed it so that Scrapper's aptitude for aggro is less than either Brute or Tanker.  It's reflected in lack of punchvoke, weaker taunt in buff/debuff auras, single target Confront vs AoE Taunt and no taunt in damage auras.

 

The reason I even mentioned taunt in damage auras is primarily for the stickiness of the effect so you can capitalize on those AoEs. In solo play, it's not as big of a deal, but in team play, this can make it harder to fully saturate AoEs in various team set-ups, which is the crux of the point: aggro-hogs can get better use of certain AoEs and Tanker gets range on said AoEs. Some might call that "synergy".  It's a synergistic buff to Tanker damage that doesn't step on the toes of other melee AT's niche.

 

So it is certainly the case that Brutes and Tanks are supposed to get lots more aggro tools than Scrappers, but the specific correlation of damage aura and taunt aura is I think basically a coincidence or to some extent a second-order effect of a couple of design principles.

 

The design principles for taunt auras are:

 

Brutes/Tanks -- Get them in every armor set

Scrappers -- Get them in armor sets that have scaling mitigation/bonuses based on number of nearby enemies

Stalkers -- Don't get them (and don't get scaling mitigation based on number of nearby enemies)

 

So just to walk through the Scrapper taunt auras:

 

Bio -- scaling healing, endurance, and absorb based on nearby enemies in DNA Siphon and Parasitic Aura

Energy Aura -- scaling defense and recharge time based on nearby enemies in Energy Drain and Entropic Aura

Invulnerability -- scaling defense based on nearby enemies in Invincibility

Radiation -- scaling healing and endurance based on nearby enemies in Radiation Therapy

Shield -- slightly weird scaling damage bonus based on nearby enemies in Against All Odds 

Willpower -- scaling regeneration based on nearby enemies in Rise to the Challenge

 

It more-or-less just happens that the damage aura armor sets (besides Bio) do not have a "scaling bonus based on number of nearby enemies" mechanic.  This isn't really a design principle per se, though you can make the case that armors only get a certain number of goodies, and a damage aura counts as a "goodie" and so does a scaling bonus, so they do sort of push against each other that way.  But, also, it is clearly the case that this isn't an inviolable principle: Bio exists.

 

I'll also note that your characterization of Scrapper taunt auras as "debuff auras" is slightly incorrect: Invincibility has no debuff component and is nevertheless a taunt aura.

 

A final note: design principles evolve over time.  I think that if Shield were being made from scratch today, it probably wouldn't get a taunt aura -- it's the only scrapper armor set that gets no mitigation, only an offensive buff from nearby enemies, and I don't think that the Homecoming devs would consider that worthy of a taunt aura.  Possibly Radiation would also lose taunt if it were being remade today, as its mitigation isn't super dependent on Radiation Therapy.  And looking backwards, it might've been the case that much earlier in the history of the game the devs wanted to more tightly link damage auras and taunt auras than is now the case -- not sure, I didn't play early in the game.

[Uun]

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

So just to walk through the Scrapper taunt auras:

 

Bio -- scaling healing, endurance, and absorb based on nearby enemies in DNA Siphon and Parasitic Aura

Energy Aura -- scaling defense and recharge time based on nearby enemies in Energy Drain and Entropic Aura

Invulnerability -- scaling defense based on nearby enemies in Invincibility

Radiation -- scaling healing and endurance based on nearby enemies in Radiation Therapy

Shield -- slightly weird scaling damage bonus based on nearby enemies in Against All Odds 

Willpower -- scaling regeneration based on nearby enemies in Rise to the Challenge

Energy Aura - Entropic Aura debuffs foe recharge. Energy Drain has no taunt.

Invulnerability - Invincibility also buffs tohit.

Radiation - Taunt aura is in Beta Decay, which debuffs foe defense and tohit. Radiation Therapy has no taunt.

Shield - Against All Odds debuffs foe damage.

Willpower - RTTC debuffs foe tohit.

 

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

It more-or-less just happens that the damage aura armor sets (besides Bio) do not have a "scaling bonus based on number of nearby enemies" mechanic.  This isn't really a design principle per se, though you can make the case that armors only get a certain number of goodies, and a damage aura counts as a "goodie" and so does a scaling bonus, so they do sort of push against each other that way.  But, also, it is clearly the case that this isn't an inviolable principle: Bio exists.

Although not in the damage auras, Dark Armor has scaling heal in Dark Regeneration, Ice Armor has scaling +end/+def in Energy Absorption, Electric has scaling +end in Power Sink and Fire has scaling +end in Consume. 

 

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

I think that if Shield were being made from scratch today, it probably wouldn't get a taunt aura -- it's the only scrapper armor set that gets no mitigation, only an offensive buff from nearby enemies, and I don't think that the Homecoming devs would consider that worthy of a taunt aura

Against All Odds debuffs foe damage.

[aethereal]

Just now, Uun said:

Energy Aura - Entropic Aura debuffs foe recharge. Energy Drain has no taunt.

 

I'm looking at the whole set, not the individual powers.  In Bio, the taunt is separated from the scaling powers, but the set as a whole is what matters.

 

Just now, Uun said:

Invulnerability - Invincibility also buffs tohit.

 

True!

 

Just now, Uun said:

Radiation - Taunt aura is in Beta Decay, which debuffs foe defense and tohit. Radiation Therapy has no taunt.

 

Again, whole set.  Beta Decay debuffs foe defense and to-hit, but doesn't give scaling benefits.  With, say, Invincibility, if you imagine having a foe that can do little or nothing to you, it standing next to you actually helps you -- it provides you mitigation and, as you say, to-hit against all of the other mobs.  Beta Decay there's no benefit to having a foe stand near you...  but there is with Radiation Therapy.

 

Just now, Uun said:

Shield - Against All Odds debuffs foe damage.

 

True, but doesn't scale -- it only debuffs its own damage.  If you didn't taunt it and it walked away, there's no disadvantage to you in terms of its own damage debuff, but there is in terms of your own damage buff.

 

Just now, Uun said:

Willpower - RTTC debuffs foe tohit.

 

Similar to above -- true but not a scaling advantage.

 

Just now, Uun said:

 

Although not in the damage auras, Dark Armor has scaling heal in Dark Regeneration, Ice Armor has scaling +end/+def in Energy Absorption, Electric has scaling +end in Power Sink and Fire has scaling +end in Consume. 

 

All true!  This is why I think that Shield is kinda weird -- like, one gets why you might say, "Okay, Rise to the Challenge is central to the mitigation of Willpower, and Invincibility to Invulnerability.  We need enemies to stick close in order for these sets to function, so they get taunt auras."  In contrast, the +end from Power Sink is, like, nice.  Nobody thinks that Electricity doesn't function if Power Sink fails to hit the maximum number of enemies.  I'd argue that Shield's Against All Odds being saturated is hardly crucial to the set, and it's weird that it gets a taunt aura out of it.

 

Let's take them one at a time:

 

Dark Regen -- I think it's slightly odd that this doesn't get a taunt aura, since I think Dark Regen is pretty central to Dark Armor (and also because Dark Armor kinda sucks on Scrappers).  That said, I guess the argument is that the heal on Dark Regen is so high it's really easy to get a full-heal out of it without needing to saturate opponents.

 

Energy Absorption -- Notably compared to the very similar Energy Drain in Energy Aura, Energy Absorption gets a vastly better static Defense bonus (3.375% vs 0.75%) and then half as much scaling defense (0.188% vs 0.375%).  I think that this difference was intended to make it less critical for Ice to saturate Energy Absorption and thus they didn't feel the need to give it a Taunt aura.

 

Power Sink -- Easy to get a full energy refresh without saturating, and +end is more of a QoL bonus than a central feature of the set, especially given that it has another endurance tool in Energize.

 

Consume -- Again, it's just +end, not central to the set.

[Maelwys]

30 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Again, whole set.  Beta Decay debuffs foe defense and to-hit, but doesn't give scaling benefits.  With, say, Invincibility, if you imagine having a foe that can do little or nothing to you, it standing next to you actually helps you -- it provides you mitigation and, as you say, to-hit against all of the other mobs.  Beta Decay there's no benefit to having a foe stand near you...  but there is with Radiation Therapy.

 

??

 

Beta Decay's main deal is a scaling recharge rate buff; ramping up in effectiveness based on how many enemies are within 8ft of you (Maximum of 10). Yes it inflicts -ToHit and -Defense, but the Buff and the Taunt effect are why you take the power.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.radiation_armor.beta_decay&at=scrapper

 

Edited March 6 by Maelwys

[aethereal]

6 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

 

??

 

Beta Decay's main deal is a scaling recharge rate buff; ramping up in effectiveness based on how many enemies are within 8ft of you (Maximum of 10). Yes it inflicts -ToHit and -Defense, but the Buff and the Taunt effect are why you take the power.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.radiation_armor.beta_decay&at=scrapper

 

 

I totally missed the scaling recharge buff!  Thanks for calling it out.

 

This is again to the main point: Scrappers get taunt auras when their armor set is such that it's actively beneficial for enemies to stick close to them -- not just that the enemies' effectiveness is lower (as when their damage or to-hit is debuffed), but where you get a benefit against other enemies if this enemy stays close to you.

[Naraka]

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

 

It more-or-less just happens that the damage aura armor sets (besides Bio) do not have a "scaling bonus based on number of nearby enemies" mechanic.  This isn't really a design principle per se, though you can make the case that armors only get a certain number of goodies, and a damage aura counts as a "goodie" and so does a scaling bonus, so they do sort of push against each other that way.  But, also, it is clearly the case that this isn't an inviolable principle: Bio exists.

 

 

You keep saying "Besides Bio". Did I miss some change? Genetic Contamination is the toxic PBAoE damage aura and it does not have taunt in it for Scrapper. Evolving Armor does have a taunt but it does no damage.  Parasitic Aura is a unique power compared to other sets and as far as I recall, it doesn't taunt for any AT.  Bio falls within the same conventions for damage auras.

 

I'm not even sure why any of you are so laser focused on that particular statement.  It's just a fact, just like it's a fact that Scrapper damage auras just do more base damage.  Exceptions can also exist while a fact is true, like damage auras cannot crit, the exception is Quills but that doesn't alter the fact that damage auras aren't designed to crit...or taunt for Scrappers.

 

Ultimately, highlighting the differences of these similar sets across ATs goes hand-in-hand with why Tankers' sets get a boost in AoE range for some attacks, because they are designed to be different for the ATs that use them.

 

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

 

I'll also note that your characterization of Scrapper taunt auras as "debuff auras" is slightly incorrect: Invincibility has no debuff component and is nevertheless a taunt aura.

 

 

I said buff/debuff auras.  Even if I failed to put both in some of my sentences, it behooves you to not nitpick and give posters the benefit of the doubt, especially if they're repeating themselves.

 

35 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

I totally missed the scaling recharge buff!  Thanks for calling it out.

 

This is again to the main point: Scrappers get taunt auras when their armor set is such that it's actively beneficial for enemies to stick close to them -- not just that the enemies' effectiveness is lower (as when their damage or to-hit is debuffed), but where you get a benefit against other enemies if this enemy stays close to you.

 

There could be various design reasons why the buff/debuff auras that Scrapper has gets taunt in them.  The overarching convention, however, is if it requires a ToHit check, it probably won't voke for Scrapper. This isn't the case for Tankers and Brutes.  I'd agree, it helps the non-damage auras do their jobs to scale with enemies, but I'm personally not making the point of why Scrappers get taunt in those, I'm moreso talking about why they don't get them in damage auras.  

[aethereal]

4 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

You keep saying "Besides Bio". Did I miss some change? Genetic Contamination is the toxic PBAoE damage aura and it does not have taunt in it for Scrapper. Evolving Armor does have a taunt but it does no damage.  Parasitic Aura is a unique power compared to other sets and as far as I recall, it doesn't taunt for any AT.  Bio falls within the same conventions for damage auras.

 

This is a distinction without a difference.  Bio has a damage aura and a taunt aura.  It doesn't matter if they're in the same power or not.

 

Nor do you need multiple taunts in one armor set.

 

It's really important for people to understand that sets are balaned as sets, not as powers.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Naraka said:

I'm not even sure why any of you are so laser focused on that particular statement.

 

Because that's what you said that was wrong, or at least somewhat wrong.  I'm not arguing with you about, for example, "Tanks get Taunt and not Confront" because, you know...  you're right!

 

4 minutes ago, Naraka said:

It's just a fact, just like it's a fact that Scrapper damage auras just do more base damage. 

 

It is a fact that Scrappers have only one armor set that has both a taunt aura and a damage aura.  Which I agreed with, and said, in my original message, was a useful thing to note!

 

But things like, "Under what circumstances do Scrappers get taunt auras" are interesting things to know about the game, and I don't think that you're correctly presenting the way the design works here.

 

4 minutes ago, Naraka said:

I said buff/debuff auras.  Even if I failed to put both in some of my sentences, it behooves you to not nitpick and give posters the benefit of the doubt, especially if they're repeating themselves.

 

You decided to spend a lot of time telling me what I should or should not say, and didn't really seem to spend a lot of time actually thinking about what I did say.

 

Think about the term "buff aura."  What's a "buff aura"?  There are all kinds of Scrapper sets that get toggles that buff the scrapper -- that's so unexceptional that we don't even have a name for it.  Look at the Stalker version of Invincibility: it's a toggle that gives the Stalker +to-hit and +defense.  Nice, simple, straightforward power.

 

For something to be a buff "aura," it pretty much has to be a scaling power, because you don't need to count enemies in range of a buff power unless you're giving a scaling benefit.

 

"Debuff auras" are different, and indeed Scrappers get plenty of debuff auras that don't come with taunt.  Cloak of Fear in Dark Armor debuffs to-hit.  Lightning Field gives end-drain.  Mud Pots slows.  Chilling Embrace gives slow and -damage.  But none of those offer a scaling bonus to the scrapper.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Naraka said:

There could be various design reasons why the buff/debuff auras that Scrapper has gets taunt in them.  The overarching convention, however, is if it requires a ToHit check, it probably won't voke for Scrapper. This isn't the case for Tankers and Brutes.  I'd agree, it helps the non-damage auras do their jobs to scale with enemies, but I'm personally not making the point of why Scrappers get taunt in those, I'm moreso talking about why they don't get them in damage auras.  

 

There could be various design reasons why some Scrappers get taunts, but there aren't!  There's one.  It's about whether that armor set as a whole gets scaling benefits from close enemies.  It's not about debuffs, and relevantly, it's not about damage auras.

[Uun]

42 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Exceptions can also exist while a fact is true, like damage auras cannot crit, the exception is Quills but that doesn't alter the fact that damage auras aren't designed to crit...or taunt for Scrappers.

Quills is in a scrapper primary, not an armor set.

 

50 minutes ago, Naraka said:

The overarching convention, however, is if it requires a ToHit check, it probably won't voke for Scrapper.

NONE of the scrapper taunt auras require a tohit check. They are all autohit.

[Naraka]

48 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

This is a distinction without a difference.  Bio has a damage aura and a taunt aura.  It doesn't matter if they're in the same power or not.

 

Nor do you need multiple taunts in one armor set.

 

It's really important for people to understand that sets are balaned as sets, not as powers.

 

 

That's a foolish outlook.

 

Especially considering many powers cross ATs outside of powersets.

 

But go ahead and save face.

 

51 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

Because that's what you said that was wrong, or at least somewhat wrong.  I'm not arguing with you about, for example, "Tanks get Taunt and not Confront" because, you know...  you're right!

 

 

Quote what I said that was wrong. I'll wait.

 

Also, no one was making the statement that tanks get taunt and not confront. 

 

52 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

 

It is a fact that Scrappers have only one armor set that has both a taunt aura and a damage aura.  Which I agreed with, and said, in my original message, was a useful thing to note!

 

 

Agreed with who?

 

54 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

 

But things like, "Under what circumstances do Scrappers get taunt auras" are interesting things to know about the game, and I don't think that you're correctly presenting the way the design works here.

 

 

I repeat, quote where I'm misrepresenting how something was designed.

 

56 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

You decided to spend a lot of time telling me what I should or should not say, and didn't really seem to spend a lot of time actually thinking about what I did say.

 

Think about the term "buff aura."  What's a "buff aura"?  There are all kinds of Scrapper sets that get toggles that buff the scrapper -- that's so unexceptional that we don't even have a name for it.  Look at the Stalker version of Invincibility: it's a toggle that gives the Stalker +to-hit and +defense.  Nice, simple, straightforward power.

 

For something to be a buff "aura," it pretty much has to be a scaling power, because you don't need to count enemies in range of a buff power unless you're giving a scaling benefit.

 

"Debuff auras" are different, and indeed Scrappers get plenty of debuff auras that don't come with taunt.  Cloak of Fear in Dark Armor debuffs to-hit.  Lightning Field gives end-drain.  Mud Pots slows.  Chilling Embrace gives slow and -damage.  But none of those offer a scaling bonus to the scrapper.

 

 

No, you decided to correct something that I didn't say and I was correcting you of what I *actually* said and the intent and context of what I said.

 

I don't really mind you adding more information or context to the discussion, but I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth or attributing things to what I said or meant when I in fact did not. There's a term for that, I believe it's called a Strawman.

 

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

 

There could be various design reasons why some Scrappers get taunts, but there aren't!  There's one.  It's about whether that armor set as a whole gets scaling benefits from close enemies.  It's not about debuffs, and relevantly, it's not about damage auras.

 

I just double checked; no where in my initial post did I say "armor set" or even "sets" at all. I only spoke of damage auras in the context that they aren't aggro tools for Scrappers.  Perhaps you still don't really grasp why I brought up damage auras in the first place? To describe it again, the basic function of them is just free damage that doesn't require a cast time that constantly ticks while you use other attacks.  Since the topic revolves around AoE radius of attacks, damage auras are effectively attacks in that regards and a good way to deal max damage with AoEs is some means of control to pull them in and keep them in (i.e. taunt). While my original post did talk about survivability in the context of staying inside a crowd of foes, the focus was on saturating AoEs as a boon for Tankers (because their AoEs are slightly bigger).

 

45 minutes ago, Uun said:

Quills is in a scrapper primary, not an armor set.

 

NONE of the scrapper taunt auras require a tohit check. They are all autohit.

 

1. I know, but Quills functions as a damage aura.

 

2. Reading comprehension. Damage powers require a ToHit check, which damage auras are damaging powers, thus they don't voke naturally.

[Naraka]

FYI, the main reason I even responded to the OP is because it brought back memories of long debates about needed differences between the melee ATs.  While I was making the argument (back then before the new Gauntlet changes) to help Tankers, all these aspects (range, number of targets, survivability, ST and AoE DPS, role, power fantasy, etc etc) were all things I argued and compared and explained many many times while debating the other suggested changes.  Basically, I've had these statements and points already.  I'm not uninformed about stuff like Bio has a damage aura *and* a taunt aura or that Quills is a melee set. 

 

So far, you're not really informing me of anything I don't already know.  If I said something incorrect, I don't mind being corrected, but if all this is some torrid attempt at one-upsmanship, just say so so I don't have to reply to this thread again. That, or at least point to something I actually got wrong so that I can at least get that clarified and move on.

Edited Thursday at 11:05 PM by Naraka

[Uun]

9 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Damage powers require a ToHit check, which damage auras are damaging powers, thus they don't voke naturally.

Brute/tank damage auras also require a tohit check for the damage component. The taunt component is autohit, as it is for all taunt auras, whether damaging or not and regardless of AT. It's the taunt aura that draws foes in and keeps them close to you, not the damage aura. Scrapper taunt auras work exactly the same way as brute/tank taunt auras, with the only difference that they're mag 3 instead of mag 4. I've played Invulnerability on a scrapper since 2004 and have no issue standing in the middle of hoards of enemies. (I also do this on Rad and Shield armor scrappers.)

 

Nobody is trying to one-up you. You made blanket statements about how ATs are designed and what their roles are. Just because you say it doesn't make it so. You keep on conflating damage auras with aggro control when they have nothing to do with it. Taunt auras control aggro, whether they're on a scrapper, brute or tank.