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Flavors of the tank

Intermipants

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Intermipants

Intermipants

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Ahoy Homecoming!  I’ve recently been experimenting with tankers and the different ways they can be played.  I took the secondary effect of the tanker primary (slows, mez, damage etc.) and combined them with a secondary that accentuates those effects to build various different types of tanks.

Couple of caveats on the builds - I made sure that they were sturdy enough for tank basics (i.e. holding aggro without dying) and then I skewed them to accentuate their secondary effects and so they’re not min/maxed and some of them lack damage.  However, all of them are more than capable of tanking at +4x8 if that’s the kind of thing you like to do.  Also, there are purple sets etc. in the builds but I found that they’re not really necessary and can be substituted for less expensive sets that do the same thing just slightly less effectively.  Finally, I love procs in some of my damage powers for tanks and so some of the builds are choc-a-bloc with procs. 

 

Thanks to the great Homecoming community both in the forums and in game for all the advice and help you’ve given with the builds.  If anyone has any other flavors of tank that they’d recommend please let me know!

 

Here’s the experience I’ve had so far:

 

Mez Tank

Powersets: dark armor / energy melee

Goal: reduce incoming damage by stunning everything

Build priorities: resistance; stun magnitude; endurance management

Being surrounded by people staggering around never gets old, and that’s as true in City of Heroes as it is down the pub.  The combination of oppressive gloom and the disorient proc in cloak of fear guarantees that all minions and roughly half the lieutenants are stunned instantly.  Everyone else can be stunned with a quick energy melee bash.  This tank was very durable and highly effective and great fun to play (I took it all the way to Tier 4 incarnates).  There were some downsides though: (1) stunned mobs are difficult to cluster tightly; (2) the stun effect doesn’t switch on until level 20 with oppressive gloom; and (3) endurance is something that you have to stay on top of – getting ready for a Synapse TF was like an 800 lb chain smoker limbering up for a marathon.  I actually installed a chair near my SG entrance just for this character.  I really enjoyed this one and I’d recommend it for any control freaks and dominators (like me) who also like a bit of tanking.

Here's the build I used for Disorient Express:

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Damage Tank

Powersets: fiery armor / fiery melee

Goal: reduce incoming damage through arson

Build priorities: resistance; accuracy, recharge, endurance (the holy trinity of damage dealers)

Absolutely nothing subtle about this one - just glorious amounts of enormous damage.  I love playing this tank – although it’s probably the least sturdy of the tanks it can still hold its own, can manage aggro well, and the damage level is really nuts.  It works equally well on teams, solo, and in farms if you like that kind of thing (I do enjoy the odd bit of farming here and there).  Downsides are that you have to keep an eye on your green bar and get ready to heal and it’s quite expensive compared to the other builds.  This is now my go to for soloing and it can pretty much solo everything (I sometimes like to take my time soloing TFs so that I can read the dialogue and as a brief aside if you haven’t already done it I’d highly recommend taking your time on the Aeon SF, it’s really well written and hilarious!) Love playing this tank and I’d recommend it for any soloists, farmers, or blasters who fancy some red hot tanking action.

Here's the build I use for Emberno Fantastico:

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Slow Tank

Powersets: ice armor / ice melee

Goal: reduce incoming damage by slowing everything to a crawl

Build priorities: defense; -recharge; -slow

This tank was just ok for me - I felt ice armor was a bit unpredictable and could be great for a while and then everything could go catastrophically sideways in a hurry.  This character benefited from “micro-kiting” where you cluster the mobs and then step about ten feet away from them and wait – with all the slows it takes them so long to reach you that some will have died of old age, others will have retired to a nice seaside community, and the rest will have been killed by your teammates.  The slow effect was good but the unpredictable fragility of the tank and the ongoing endurance issues put me off a bit.  I think I could’ve slotted better to manage endurance but I never really got into the groove with this one and just like in real life I stopped caring and gave up at 50.

Here's the build I used for Disco Dancefloe:

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Regen Tank

Powersets: willpower / dark melee

Goal: sluice away incoming damage in an endless torrent of regen and healthy superfoods

Build priorities: smash / lethal resistance; typed defense; regen; HP

This is the vegan yoga instructor of City of Heroes.  In the two weeks I spent leveling this character I lost 20lbs, started wearing hemp trousers, and discovered the meaning of the word bespoke.  I initially had trepidation about this build because I thought I’d get knackered by the alpha strikes but it actually turned out to be extremely sturdy and was the second toughest of the tanks I built.  The damage was very weak (the build isn’t very balanced) but it could easily tank on teams at +4x8 and while there wasn’t anything particularly unique about it I really enjoyed playing this one.  I’d recommend this for anyone who still has vague memories of playing a regen scrapper in the early days of live and being unkillable.

Here's the build I used for Bamboodoo:

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Tanker’s Tank

Powersets: invulnerability / staff

Goal: just be really really tough

Build priorities: resistance; defense

I thought that my willpower tank was going to be difficult to beat in the sturdiness stakes.  How wrong I was!  This tank was ridiculous!  After level 30 my green bar barely moved at all and when it did I thought there was some kind of problem with my vision.  This could tank everything and by the time I reached 50 I had stopped paying attention to my green and blue bars.  The only downside to this build is that it removes all jeopardy from the game.  Admittedly I didn’t run anything on hard mode but everything else didn’t scratch the paint.  I’d recommend this for anyone who wants to run a tank but is deathly afraid of the ignominy, disgrace, and enormous humiliation that comes with occasionally faceplanting.  I actually really enjoyed this one particularly because I find the staff moves endlessly entertaining.

Here's the build I used for Kendo Barbie:

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My final planned tank is an electric / electric sapper although I don’t really have high hopes for it given my experience with sapping on other ATs.

Thanks for reading, and again if anyone has ideas for other tanker flavors I’d love to try them!

 

Warshades

Warshades

Posted
Posted

Sapping works, just not on melee ATs. You want to have a lot of -rec in AoE attacks (enemies need a small sliver of end to launch attacks). While power sink and/or energy absorption work well in draining endurance, electric melee is terrible for this and mu mastery AoEs don't guarantee that -rec will apply. Sentinels, Corrs, and Defenders all do it much better.

 

This isn't really a different flavor of tank (unless you consider knockdown to be a flavor), but I've not played a tank that can out damage a proc bombed rad/ss. You could maybe compare it to your fire/fire.

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tidge

tidge

Posted
Posted

I smell what you are cooking with the Invulnerability Tank, I have one that performs really well across all content (including boosted Shadow Shard). There may be a case to be made for Super Reflexes. I haven't taken SR Tankers through as much (in terms of variety of) content, but I found them to be more boring than Invuln, at least once I had a handle on how much I could rely on Scaling Damage Resistance and when a burning of the green bar should be troubling and when it was just business as usual.

 

That being said, I do have a few bones to pick with the slotting choices on the Invulnerability primary:

 

I feel like the suggested slotting of Invincibility and Tough Hide is inferior to something like:

 

Level 18:              Invincibility        

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

 (*) Shield Wall - Defense: Level 50+5

 (*) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

 (*) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure (Endurance/ ToHit/Defense)

 

Level 22:              Tough Hide        

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

 (*) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

 (*) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

 

Obviously I'm shuffling Scaling Damage Resistance to somewhere else (in place of a LotG), but the Auto boost from Tough Hide is where Kismet should go, and underslotting Invincibility seems like a crime against the AT.  I've copied in my slotting showing that I'm trying for +Regeneration boosts in addition to simply boosting the Defensive attributes. 3-slotting Shield Wall would be a good thing for a Tanker (more HP) , but I decided leaning into each of the Hami-O boosts to be slightly preferable. I often drop the Gaussian's %Build up in Invcibility as well.

 

In the current game, Invuln has much less of a "Psi Hole" than in the distant past, so there may be little need to try to patch it, especially if the ATO +Res is in use. MMV based on content I suppose. It also appears to be lacking a Power Transfer %Heal, which is far more important to an Invuln (or any, because of HP) Tanker IMO than an Impervium Armor Psi Resist piece.

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Thraxen

Thraxen

Posted
Posted

SR tank crazy. I almost never even worry about the scaling resists. He never gets low enough for them to kick in. Tanked 4star ITF on him no prob. 
 

ice/spines is good for slows too. 

Maltese_Knight

Maltese_Knight

Posted
Posted
  On 3/8/2025 at 3:10 PM, tidge said:

I smell what you are cooking with the Invulnerability Tank, I have one that performs really well across all content (including boosted Shadow Shard). There may be a case to be made for Super Reflexes. I haven't taken SR Tankers through as much (in terms of variety of) content, but I found them to be more boring than Invuln, at least once I had a handle on how much I could rely on Scaling Damage Resistance and when a burning of the green bar should be troubling and when it was just business as usual.

 

That being said, I do have a few bones to pick with the slotting choices on the Invulnerability primary:

 

I feel like the suggested slotting of Invincibility and Tough Hide is inferior to something like:

 

Level 18:              Invincibility        

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

 (*) Shield Wall - Defense: Level 50+5

 (*) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

 (*) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure (Endurance/ ToHit/Defense)

 

Level 22:              Tough Hide        

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

 (*) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

 (*) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

 

Obviously I'm shuffling Scaling Damage Resistance to somewhere else (in place of a LotG), but the Auto boost from Tough Hide is where Kismet should go, and underslotting Invincibility seems like a crime against the AT.  I've copied in my slotting showing that I'm trying for +Regeneration boosts in addition to simply boosting the Defensive attributes. 3-slotting Shield Wall would be a good thing for a Tanker (more HP) , but I decided leaning into each of the Hami-O boosts to be slightly preferable. I often drop the Gaussian's %Build up in Invcibility as well.

 

In the current game, Invuln has much less of a "Psi Hole" than in the distant past, so there may be little need to try to patch it, especially if the ATO +Res is in use. MMV based on content I suppose. It also appears to be lacking a Power Transfer %Heal, which is far more important to an Invuln (or any, because of HP) Tanker IMO than an Impervium Armor Psi Resist piece.

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Can we run with the Build Up proc from Gaussian's in Invinc a bit?

 

Is that chance to proc affected at all by target count in Invince or is it proc'ed based on a chance per time frame? Because if I'm in a wad  o' bad guys and it's triggering BECAUSE of Invinc mob counts (or increases the chances), that's pretty dang sexy.

Biff Pow

Biff Pow

Posted
Posted
  On 3/8/2025 at 9:01 PM, Maltese_Knight said:

Can we run with the Build Up proc from Gaussian's in Invinc a bit?

 

Is that chance to proc affected at all by target count in Invince or is it proc'ed based on a chance per time frame? Because if I'm in a wad  o' bad guys and it's triggering BECAUSE of Invinc mob counts (or increases the chances), that's pretty dang sexy.

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Yes, the chance for build up increases with enemies around you. If you're in a group of 10+ it fires off a lot.

Spaghetti Betty

Spaghetti Betty

Posted
Posted
  On 3/8/2025 at 9:01 PM, Maltese_Knight said:

Can we run with the Build Up proc from Gaussian's in Invinc a bit?

 

Is that chance to proc affected at all by target count in Invince or is it proc'ed based on a chance per time frame? Because if I'm in a wad  o' bad guys and it's triggering BECAUSE of Invinc mob counts (or increases the chances), that's pretty dang sexy.

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  On 3/8/2025 at 9:21 PM, Biff Pow said:

 

Yes, the chance for build up increases with enemies around you. If you're in a group of 10+ it fires off a lot.

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I just want to add to this!

 

I've fiddled with this exact concept on my own quite a bit, and in practice it's not extremely reliable!

 

Keep in mind that Invincibility will only ever affect 10 targets at a time, and toggles will only check procs every 10 seconds. Gaussian 's has pitifully low proc chance as it is, so unless you're constantly around 10 targets every 10 seconds, the proc chance is wildly inconsistent!

 

On the flip side, if you want to run the BU proc passively, you could slot it in Tactics! It'll function much the same, but the firing will be based on how many ally players and NPCs are affected by your Tactics, which has much higher target cap. This includes pretty much any summonable entity that can receive buffs, like Controller or MM pets!

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Mainly on Excelsior. Find me in game @Spaghetti Betty.

AE Arcs:  Big Magic Blowout! 41612 | The Meta-Human Wrestling Association 44683 | MHWA Part 2 48577

Click to look at my pets!

 

tidge

tidge

Posted
Posted
  On 3/8/2025 at 9:21 PM, Biff Pow said:

 

Yes, the chance for build up increases with enemies around you. If you're in a group of 10+ it fires off a lot.

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As noted, the target cap is 10 (enemies). It is typical that my Invuln Tank has more enemies close by than allies. While my Tankers will run Maneuvers, they rarely also have Tactics. It isn't so much that I mind running ally buffs on a Tanker, it is more that the builds get too tight for it.

Maltese_Knight

Maltese_Knight

Posted
Posted

So how's the mechanic work?  How is the proc chance calculated? It sounds like regardless of Invincibility or Tactics, it would run the proc chance per mob, per ten seconds, unless already fired/active. 

 

So if I'm tracking correctly, even at a 10 mob cap, that's still X chances (however many mobs are in the range) per ten seconds. That IS pretty dang sexy, regardless of the power. Looks like I'm slotting up Invincibility!

 

Thanks for the tips, gang.

Maltese_Knight

Maltese_Knight

Posted
Posted
  On 3/9/2025 at 2:22 AM, biostem said:

I still find it a bit cumbersome to figure out, myself, but this has some useful information...

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The left side of my face went numb just looking at the formulas. Hahaha

 

But this does make sense. That link talks about PPM, which got me thinking about cool down. Not seeing anything handy that talks about it, other than the check to see if it's active/fired. Is there a cool down after it fires?

 

On a side note, sorry for the thread hijack.

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biostem

biostem

Posted
Posted
  On 3/9/2025 at 2:41 AM, Maltese_Knight said:

The left side of my face went numb just looking at the formulas. Hahaha

 

But this does make sense. That link talks about PPM, which got me thinking about cool down. Not seeing anything handy that talks about it, other than the check to see if it's active/fired. Is there a cool down after it fires?

 

On a side note, sorry for the thread hijack.

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Haha!  All things being equal, my general rule if a click power has a recharge time equal to or greater than the proc rate, it *should* go off each time you activate said power.  It's not a perfect guideline, but seems reliable enough;  I tend to put the Gaussian's in a build-up/aim power, and it'll go off every time I use said power, (at least in my experience)...

Maltese_Knight

Maltese_Knight

Posted
Posted
  On 3/9/2025 at 2:44 AM, biostem said:

Haha!  All things being equal, my general rule if a click power has a recharge time equal to or greater than the proc rate, it *should* go off each time you activate said power.  It's not a perfect guideline, but seems reliable enough;  I tend to put the Gaussian's in a build-up/aim power, and it'll go off every time I use said power, (at least in my experience)...

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Okay, that's a different angle.

 

But isn't there a check inherent in the proc so that you can't stack the effect? Or is the check so the proc doesn't stack with itself? Meaning, there's a legit chance to fire a double Build Up by slotting the proc in BU?

biostem

biostem

Posted
Posted
  On 3/9/2025 at 2:49 AM, Maltese_Knight said:

But isn't there a check inherent in the proc so that you can't stack the effect? Or is the check so the proc doesn't stack with itself? Meaning, there's a legit chance to fire a double Build Up by slotting the proc in BU?

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The PPM of that Gaussian's is 1PPM, so basically once per minute, (again, very loose math, here).  BU/AI have a base recharge of 90 secs, IIRC.  If you slot it for recharge and have a lot of global +recharge, then yes, it won't trigger every time.  If you only use BU/Aim more casually, as I tend to do, instead of whenever it's available, then that shouldn't be an issue.  Still, yes, your point stands...

Biff Pow

Biff Pow

Posted
Posted
  On 3/9/2025 at 2:49 AM, Maltese_Knight said:

But isn't there a check inherent in the proc so that you can't stack the effect? Or is the check so the proc doesn't stack with itself? Meaning, there's a legit chance to fire a double Build Up by slotting the proc in BU?

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The Gaussians Build-Up used to double up sometimes in Invincibility, but that was changed at some point. I even saw it triple stack a couple times. Even without that, it's still definitely worth slotting.

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Maelwys

Maelwys

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/9/2025 at 2:41 AM, Maltese_Knight said:

The left side of my face went numb just looking at the formulas. 

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You don't need to memorize or even understand the formulas, just use a calculator like this one by MacSkull (make a copy) plus City of Data v2 for the base numbers to plug into it.

 

For Clicks Global Recharge doesn't factor into it, only Base Recharge and slotted recharge enhancement (including from an Alpha slot). Autos and Toggles such as Invincibility don't even care about recharge - the only thing that counts for them is radius.

 

Edited by Maelwys
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tidge

tidge

Posted
Posted
  On 3/9/2025 at 2:16 AM, Maltese_Knight said:

So if I'm tracking correctly, even at a 10 mob cap, that's still X chances (however many mobs are in the range) per ten seconds. That IS pretty dang sexy, regardless of the power. Looks like I'm slotting up Invincibility!

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I know that @Maltese_Knight isn't the OP, but of all the powers in a Tanker's Invulnerability primary... I never would have guessed that Invincibility would be a power that players would choose to take without adding any additional slots.... especially if playing against +4s. The 'singleton' buff may not look that good, when holding the aggro of a large number of enemies in melee range (yay Tanker PBAoEs) the extra slotting pays dividends in my experience.

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Maltese_Knight

Maltese_Knight

Posted
Posted
  On 3/9/2025 at 3:34 PM, tidge said:

 

I know that @Maltese_Knight isn't the OP, but of all the powers in a Tanker's Invulnerability primary... I never would have guessed that Invincibility would be a power that players would choose to take without adding any additional slots.... especially if playing against +4s. The 'singleton' buff may not look that good, when holding the aggro of a large number of enemies in melee range (yay Tanker PBAoEs) the extra slotting pays dividends in my experience.

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I don't get that either. Granted, my perspective is very narrow and ridiculously dated, but a 3 slot DEF buff at a minimum always made sense to me. While the increase itself per mob is small, it's a multiplicative buff plus the bonuses to its natural base, which makes things much better for minimal investment. Seems like a no brainer.

 

I always dismissed the ToHit side of it though and ran 3 slots and called it good. But again, that's from forever ago. Thinking a 4th slot for the Gaussian's proc is the play, but I'd be wide open to hearing thoughts on other set-ups for the power, the true gem in the Invulnerability set.

 

 

  • 3 weeks later
Intermipants

Intermipants

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi all, been offline and just catching up on the replies.  Thanks for the tips on reslotting invincibility. I have to confess the invuln tank was my last one and it was proving to be so tough that I started switching things about to add damage etc. and so it really isn’t min/maxed as much as it could be.  Think I’ll respec it when I get back from vacation with your tips. Thanks again!

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