Optional feature suggestion: "Non-lethal" Arrests

[biostem]

I don't know how feasible this would be to implement, but I was thinking it'd be really cool if there was an optional setting that would replace the defeat animation for human/living enemies, where they go into some generic "Apprehended" pose, then a "teleported out" animation would play instead of the normal fading away.  Mechanically, nothing would change, so powers that target defeated enemies would work just like they do now; This would be a purely aesthetic change...

[Darkneblade]

Here i go thinking this is where some enemies just magically gets them defeated after certain periods of mezzed status like say 2 min of inactivity/held status. But this is fine too.

[srmalloy]

The rationalization falls down redside and in Cimerora, but the game lore already has you making 'non-lethal' arrests; when a mob is defeated, if you examine them closely, they still have a tiny sliver of health, and the lore explanation is that the police transporters are able to lock onto the mobs once defeated and transport them to holding cells (presumably, with medical attention at the ready); any lethal apprehension is a character-roleplay bit, not what is putatively happening in game.

[Chris24601]

I always RP that my archer’s arrows all have mediporter tracking chips in them.

 

That said I do wish the rag doll physics was turned down a bit overall… some of the ways heads and spines bend and pancake should not be possible in a still living person.

 

 I also would like it if the Arachnos Tarantulas (you know, the ones that are actually power armor with a human grafted inside) didn’t sometimes EXPLODE. I’m sorry, even I can’t RP a human surviving their body literally exploding as “they’re fine. They went to live in the penitentiary upstate… forever.”

 

I’d honestly be quite happy if they went a little backwards on things and just had the human-shaped villains use the player death animations. I’ve been doing a fair bit of Croatoa and the Fir Bolg, Tuatha, Ghosts and Red Caps all use an animated defeat instead of rag dolling and they look absolutely fine… honestly better than most mobs in defeat if you asked me.

Edited March 20 by Chris24601

[TheMoneyMaker]

I always chuckle when I mention killing bad guys and someone on the team corrects me, saying we're arresting them.  No, no, no.....not with my vigilante ass on the team we aren't.

[TheMoneyMaker]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if a nonlethal mode was introduced. If I see whose attacks are triggering the arrest animation I would go out of my way to kill their targets before they finish them off, so even though they didn't deliver the killing blow they still helped.

[Akisan]

32 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

I also would like it if the Arachnos Tarantulas (you know, the ones that are actually power armor with a human grafted inside) didn’t sometimes EXPLODE. I’m sorry, even I can’t RP a human surviving their body literally exploding as “they’re fine. They went to live in the penitentiary upstate… forever.”

 

Now, now - those just explode when the person inside is forcibly teleported away, leaving the (now empty) armor behind.  Whether or not they actually end up in the upstate penitentiary is another story...

 

5 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

I always chuckle when I mention killing bad guys and someone on the team corrects me, saying we're arresting them.  No, no, no.....not with my vigilante ass on the team we aren't.

 

About that... I totally got my hands on some of the mythical "Healing Arrows" that Trick Archers keep claiming they have.  How else do you think my Heroic archer manages to safely "arrest" people? What do you mean, "you don't believe me"?!

[TheMoneyMaker]

And the battle axe guys are just hitting with the flat of their blade. Or is it a nerf axe?

 

Fire blast - Low intensity flames? So a low intensity tier 9 inferno?

 

Beam rifle causes disintegration. Yeah, but just non-lethal disintegration.

 

[TheMoneyMaker]

Safe radiation dose that won't kill but somehow weakens the target.

 

[Chris24601]

5 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Fire blast - Low intensity flames? So a low intensity tier 9 inferno?

 

I’ll have you know I only use MAGIC fire. Your body is fine.

 

Your soul on the other hand… 😈

[TheMoneyMaker]

18 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

I’ll have you know I only use MAGIC fire. Your body is fine.

 

Your soul on the other hand… 😈

Somehow that seems way worse

[Crasical]

There are actually animations for the Freedom Phalanx where they get mediported out (With longbow escort, even!) because you can't canonically kill them.

 

anyway there are a few explicit kills in the game, more as time has gone on, but the generic term 'Defeat' is used for a reason, so that you can decide if you're sending them to the shadow realm or leaving them beaten but alive, or sending them to the zig with teleport magic or what have you.

 

I do want to echo some frustration with Tarantulas/Tarantula mistresses and with Carnies, who sometimes explode or have their souls sucked out when they are taken down. Heroes that refuse to kill are super genre appropriate, so having explicit death animations for those factions is kind of vexing.

[Rudra]

45 minutes ago, Crasical said:

I do want to echo some frustration with Tarantulas/Tarantula mistresses and with Carnies, who sometimes explode or have their souls sucked out when they are taken down. Heroes that refuse to kill are super genre appropriate, so having explicit death animations for those factions is kind of vexing.

Maybe that's a failing on my part, but I never realized the Carnies were having their souls sucked out when defeated. I knew Vanessa fed on souls, devouring them like nothing and that a lot of Carnies are already bereft of their souls because Vanessa ate it. Especially the Strong Men who are explicitly described as being soulless as part of their transformation into a Strong Man. However, I always viewed the defeat animations of the Carnies of Vanessa withdrawing herself from them, which was painful but made sense since her puppet/follower was no longer of current use.

 

As for the frequency at which the various types of Tarantulas explode? Yeah, that is rather frustrating. Especially since I know they have non-exploding defeat animations. They just don't use those animations very often.

[TheMoneyMaker]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

As for the frequency at which the various types of Tarantulas explode? Yeah, that is rather frustrating. Especially since I know they have non-exploding defeat animations. They just don't use those animations very often.

I'd love to see other NPC groups have exploding defeat options. Exploding clockworks, Nemesis, Council, Longbow... let's let everyone potentially explode.

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Nemesis,

They do. The various types of Jaegars explode. And I'm pretty sure the Warhulks do too.

 

4 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Longbow

I think the Menders can explode just like the Arachnos ACUs and BCUs.

 

Edit: That said? No, I don't want everything exploding. I'm already not a fan of the frequency of Arachnos explosions. And depending on the faction, those explosions are murder on MM pets.

 

Edited March 22 by Rudra

[TheMoneyMaker]

I was thinking squishier explosions

[Akisan]

16 hours ago, Rudra said:

They do. The various types of Jaegars explode. And I'm pretty sure the Warhulks do too.

 

Not only do Warhulks explode, they're piloted. Technically.  Maybe.  I seem to recall a piece of lore somewhere in-game mentioning that Nemesis puts captured enemies in the Warhulks, so they might just be autonomous prison robots that kill the prisoner when defeated. (Because that's not nightmare fuel at all, even if I can totally see Nemesis doing just that.)

 

Oh, and the Carnies are double fun - their ranks aren't just comprised of willing souls.  Between a tip mission in-game where you stop 3 already partially mind-controlled girls from joining, and the comics where Vanessa threatens to turn War Witch into one, it's pretty much a given that a not insignificant number of Carnies are their mind controlled victims.

 

10 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

I was thinking squishier explosions

 

I'm actually kind of happy that this game doesn't have gore, so no thanks.  Especially given how much nightmare fuel is already in the game, if you look for it.

[TheMoneyMaker]

11 minutes ago, Akisan said:

 

I'm actually kind of happy that this game doesn't have gore, so no thanks.  Especially given how much nightmare fuel is already in the game, if you look for it.

I'm kind of unhappy with the lack of it, hence my bringing it up

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, Akisan said:

Not only do Warhulks explode, they're piloted. Technically.  Maybe.  I seem to recall a piece of lore somewhere in-game mentioning that Nemesis puts captured enemies in the Warhulks, so they might just be autonomous prison robots that kill the prisoner when defeated. (Because that's not nightmare fuel at all, even if I can totally see Nemesis doing just that.)

You are correct in that the Warhulks are piloted. However, I haven't come across any references for them being piloted by enemies. There is one Warhulk that has the pilot talk to you, and it was a Nemesis soldier that you the player had defeated multiple times up to that point in the story arc. And the way the pilot talks, it seems the Warhulks are piloted by "dead" (near dead and unable to be sufficiently healed) Nemesis soldiers as a means of continuing to serve Nemesis. (Edit: So more of a combat life support system than a prison, though they can never leave their Warhulk once put in. And who knows how many pilots are volunteers and how many are voluntolds. So in another way, your prison reference is still apt.)

 

15 minutes ago, Akisan said:

Oh, and the Carnies are double fun - their ranks aren't just comprised of willing souls.  Between a tip mission in-game where you stop 3 already partially mind-controlled girls from joining, and the comics where Vanessa threatens to turn War Witch into one, it's pretty much a given that a not insignificant number of Carnies are their mind controlled victims.

There is also a story arc or a tip mission where you the player go after a Carnie mask and have it altered to keep Vanessa from taking control of you when you go to put it on. Which also means you don't get access to the powers she imbues her followers/puppets with. So yeah, while the majority seem to be willing recipients, that willingness is not necessarily based upon any awareness/knowledge of how the Carnies operate. In your provided example, those three are being manipulated through talk and party rather than being partially mind controlled. I never saw/read that issue, but it is a given from the in game lore that simply putting a mask on immediately makes you open to Vanessa's control and appetite unless steps are taken to prevent that from happening beforehand.

 

Edited March 22 by Rudra

[TheMoneyMaker]

Half of this game is city of villains, so I just wish things could be a bit villainier from time to time.

 

Technically more than half when you account for the praetorian side of things with neither resistance nor loyalists being especially heroic

[Akisan]

16 minutes ago, Rudra said:

There is one Warhulk that has the pilot talk to you, and it was a Nemesis soldier that you the player had defeated multiple times up to that point in the story arc.

 

Now that you mention it, I do recall that mission.  Haven't played it since Live, so I may have to take a look.  Which arc?

 

As for Nemesis putting enemies in there, I think there's a side mission somewhere that either has you freeing a few captured heroes from inside the Warhulks, or preventing them from being placed in them in the first place.  Again, I think that was a bit I stumbled into on Live, so no idea which arc/contact (or if it's even in-game, and I'm just mis-remembering!)

 

16 minutes ago, Rudra said:

In your provided example, those three are being manipulated through talk and party rather than being partially mind controlled.

 

Sorry, poor phrasing on my part.  The debutants are definitely being manipulated into being Carnies, but I got the impression that there was a subtle psionic effect on them making them more suggestible and less aware, in addition to the more mundane tricks the Carnies are using to manipulate them.

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, Akisan said:

 

Now that you mention it, I do recall that mission.  Haven't played it since Live, so I may have to take a look.  Which arc?

I don't remember which arc specifically, sorry.

[Chris24601]

On 3/22/2025 at 1:57 PM, TheMoneyMaker said:

Half of this game is city of villains, so I just wish things could be a bit villainier from time to time.

 

Technically more than half when you account for the praetorian side of things with neither resistance nor loyalists being especially heroic

“Half the game” but only 10-20% of the players though.

 

I generally only touch the Warden content in Praetoria, so actually pretty heroic in a “Le Resistance” sorta way (they don’t generally try to kill anyone, a lot of stealthable missions, and a lot of rescues).

 

Similarly, Red-side I play Rogues, have a list of “no play” missions/contacts I will not do because I find it too abhorrent, and operate under the “try not to kill anyone because you can only rob a dead man once*” rule.
 

* yes, my rogue goes through the pockets of everyone they defeat before they get mediported out… yes, even the superheroes. A Rogue’s gotta get their infamy somewhere.

[Zombra]

On 3/21/2025 at 12:18 PM, Crasical said:

The generic term 'Defeat' is used for a reason.

 

This is it.  It's a huge deal, very cleverly done to give you a very easy option to headcanon it any way you want.  Yes the ragdolls get out of hand sometimes, but this is just nitpicking.  Honestly (in my head) very few of my characters are mass murderers, even redside.  Remember that even Hellions have super powers.  Just like your own characters, enemies in the game can take a beating and be fine, if you choose to look at it that way.  My unarmored natural martial artist has been shot with enough bullets to supply all the wars of history, not even mentioning getting blown up with rocket launchers, but he's still fine.  If you can roll with that, you can roll with anything.

 

Edited yesterday at 04:39 AM by Zombra

[srmalloy]

On 3/20/2025 at 9:16 AM, Chris24601 said:

That said I do wish the rag doll physics was turned down a bit overall… some of the ways heads and spines bend and pancake should not be possible in a still living person.

I think the ragdoll physics were sort of spatchcocked onto the rest of the combat effects, and no one bothered to go back and look at whether limits needed to be established on the range of motion at the joints. I do agree with you that some of the contortions are excessive, but I don't know how much work would be entailed in setting range limits on the primary joint movements (i.e., forward/back at the knees, same for hips with in/out, like standing with feet spread, waist rotation and flex, the bend of elbows, two axes of rotation at the shoulder, and again for the neck) -- and, more importantly, applying those limits during the ragdoll movement. It may well be that the code for this would have put too much of a load on the computers CoH was originally intended to be able to run on, and then 'working well enough' later on that no one went back to clean it up.