Fix tanker cones to have larger range like pbaoes have

[WindDemon21]

Since the gauntlet change, one absolutely terrible, but fix the cones so they have 50% extra radius like pbaoes have. There is zero reason to not have done this after nerfing the arc (which even then the cones should have had a longer radius, not really an arc increase), but now that it was nerfed, they should be fixed to have the extra 50% radius just like the pbaoes have. It makes zero sense to not buff those too!

Edited yesterday at 07:25 PM by WindDemon21

[Psyonico]

They had increased radii at some point on open beta and was specifically changed because people said “this formula nets us less damage per target and doesn’t do a whole lot it increase targets hit” and brought the numbers to prove it.

[Shin Magmus]

   Longer ranged cones indeed don't benefit you 99% of the time.  You're in melee, so you'd have to back up out of melee to be able to actually benefit from the slightly longer cone, especially the increased width at the end of the cone.  Usually the longer cone simply "overshoots" all the enemies near you into dead space where there are no enemies.  This increased area factor does decrease proc rates... significantly, so it was only a hindrance.

 

   I really miss the wider cones: they were immediately both easier to use and just more fun.  It breathed new life into certain powers, and made them the high-point of picking a Tanker, such as Frost being an awesome fan out on so many enemies so easily.  What are these people doing?

[WindDemon21]

No i'm aware of this. Which is specifically why it's not supposed to be balanced for the larger area, which is what the original aoe buff to gauntlet was for. To give more area without lowering damage. Unless i missed it the increase to the radius on the aoes base area this round, only hurts procs, not the damage on the powers themselves right, or did i miss those aoes were nerfed on damage too? At either rate, they could do that for cones too regardless, and should. This just inadvertently hurts sets whose more aoe focus is on cones versus the actual full pbaoe, and it's quite unfair to those sets versus those that are mostly all just pbaoes.

 

 

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, Shin Magmus said:

   Longer ranged cones indeed don't benefit you 99% of the time.  You're in melee, so you'd have to back up out of melee to be able to actually benefit from the slightly longer cone, especially the increased width at the end of the cone.  Usually the longer cone simply "overshoots" all the enemies near you into dead space where there are no enemies.  This increased area factor does decrease proc rates... significantly, so it was only a hindrance.

 

   I really miss the wider cones: they were immediately both easier to use and just more fun.  It breathed new life into certain powers, and made them the high-point of picking a Tanker, such as Frost being an awesome fan out on so many enemies so easily.  What are these people doing?

Exactly, it just feels awful now. To be fair, it's the 90 degree cones that you really notice the boost of the previous wider arc more, so frost, eviscerate, and ripper most especially got hurt super bad by this.

 

But still, it made more sense for them to be 50% longer like pbaoes have, and still does make more sense, especially after taking away the arc increase, because if the cone was already wide enough, like 120 degrees, the larger arc hardly did anything, and one narrow cones, 50 degrees or less, the arc increase was so low that it was also hardly noticeable, however, with a longer radius, you can hit deeper, so it would still help all of the cones out rather equally (but obviously help the wider cones more)

 

For this reason honestly cones should have both an arc and radius increase as part of the tanker bonus. Now the larger target cap however means basically nothing since most cones are already designed to have the target cap be the maximum that it's going to hit anyway. These change are just terribly freaking stupid. (and still as a separate buff so they're not trying to lower the damage due to the larger cone size, again, i'm fairly certain that pbaoes didn't get lowered damage for their wider areas, (base damage, not proc chances which also sucks)

[WindDemon21]

22 hours ago, Psyonico said:

They had increased radii at some point on open beta and was specifically changed because people said “this formula nets us less damage per target and doesn’t do a whole lot it increase targets hit” and brought the numbers to prove it.

Also just if you missed the response Psy, the increased radius specifically shouldn't have to factor into the damage formula. That's why it made more sense for it to be an outside buff that increased the areas the way it was before (like all other inherent abilities). It was only mostly changed recently to be the powers themselves because the devs hate procs and this lowered the proc chances due to the larger area (which is still stupid, but won't fight on that part).

 

Though the base damage of the power, shouldn't be affected by the increased radius. Hence why it's an AT bonus. You wouldn't lower a scrappers base damage just because they have the ability to crit, or a blasters base damage because their inherent stacks up extra damage bonus.

 

The only odd outlier here are brutes which IMO their base damage should be higher but just lower the buff provided by fury which would make a lot more sense, but talking about tankers here, the aoe increase really should be just a bonus of the AT, it doesn't affect the pbaoe base damage due to the larger area, so it shouldn't have to factor into cones with a larger area on tankers either. Unless i missed that they lowered the damage on those pbaoes due to the larger area, but that was not mentioned anywhere i saw, and i didn't screenshot any values prior to page 28 to verify now either (i know the additonal targets damage was lowered, but that was just to make the extra targets not hurt as much, it wasn't changing the base damage on those powers)

[WindDemon21]

23 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

   Longer ranged cones indeed don't benefit you 99% of the time.  You're in melee, so you'd have to back up out of melee to be able to actually benefit from the slightly longer cone, especially the increased width at the end of the cone.  Usually the longer cone simply "overshoots" all the enemies near you into dead space where there are no enemies.  This increased area factor does decrease proc rates... significantly, so it was only a hindrance.

 

   I really miss the wider cones: they were immediately both easier to use and just more fun.  It breathed new life into certain powers, and made them the high-point of picking a Tanker, such as Frost being an awesome fan out on so many enemies so easily.  What are these people doing?

Right, well see response above about the extra area not factoring into the damage formula since it's an AT bonus. But on the cones, the extra radius on the pbaoes are nice, but i honesty enjoy by AT at least, the larger size on the cones because it makes some sets so much more fun especially with the larger target caps. Now without that, it's almost pointless for the cones to hit more targets because most of them won't ever reach any extras except a very select few cones.

 

I honestly wish, across all ATs, that these powers had more of an adaptive damage/end/rech. So if the cone hit only 2 enemies instead of 5, it would do more damage to those two versus the damage done to each 5 enemies. This would honestly be really nice across the board, but especially for melee cones, and also really help some sets out who are low on single target damage. Just imagine if jacob's ladder, or proton sweep, or even psy blade sweep, did high damage when it would hit just a single target. I think the recharge could not have to be adaptive, but the damage/end would per target hit, and it would make those cones so much nicer.

 

Edit: especially Ripper! Could you imagine how much that would help spines out if ripper was doing 1.5x damage or whatever when hitting only one target. Would really help out spine's poor ST damage. But yeah, these base cones without any boost just feel awful now on tankers 😕

Edited 1 hour ago by WindDemon21