Stuff That Should Do Trawl/Pull Effects

[Kaballah]

There's a few powers AOE that should logically do a trawl effect to pull things towards their center, and now that Homecoming has come up with a way to have multiple exclusive powers available at a particular tier, it doesn't even mean the existing powers have to be changed or removed, a new power with different mechanics could be placed alongside the existing ones! Here's a few very obvious ones:

Storm Summoning/Hurricane - should pull things inward

Storm Summing/Tornado - should pull things inward

Psychic Blast/Psionic Tornado - should pull things inward

Water Blast/Whirlpool - should pull things inward

Leviathan Mastery/Water Spout - should pull things inward

 

And here's some moderately appealing ones, where I think you can make a case for it/it would make sense:

Kinetics/Repel and Force Field/Repulsion Field - These powers are very unpopular because they have a huge area and scatter mobs. While some people might like them, I literally never run into anyone using them because they're just really annoying. An alternative version that pulls mobs to its center would be wildly popular. Perhaps make it a targeted toggle that can be placed on an enemy the way Mind Control/Telekinesis works. I think this would be insanely popular even if it had no Hold crowd control effect (perhaps justifying a lower cooldown).

Gravity Control/Gravity Distortion Field - while the current version makes sense (manipulating Earth's gravity to pull things down) it would make just as much sense and be really nice to have an alternative version that pulled things to its center, the way Dark Miasma/Black Hole does

Dark Armor/Dark Regeneration and/or Dark Armor/Obscure Sustenance - Tankers and Brutes would be overjoyed at this, and it would make sense.

Energy Aura/Energy Drain - The whole gimmick of this set is manipulating kinetic energy, again this would make sense, and Tankers/Brutes would be delighted to have it.

 

"Area Denial" powers that make mobs scatter - A lot of players dislike this whole category of power because they make mobs scatter and often annoy other teammates. How about some exclusive choices at their given tier, that creates an area effect like Water Blast/Whirlpool, or a burst of a more powerful effect like Battle Axe/Axe Cyclone, and have them do a pull effect as alternatives?

• Fire Blast/Rain of Fire
• Ice Blast/Ice Storm and/or Ice Blast/Blizzard
• Cold Domination/Snow Storm and/or Storm Summoning/Snow Storm
• Traps/Caltrops and/or Devices/Caltrops 

 

Related:

Gravity Control/Dimension Shift - I have never seen anyone use this power, very unpopular. Similar to how "Area Denial" powers work, this just never developed a popular use case among players and the content. How about an alternative ranged AOE power that "warps space" and pulls mobs in its radius to a specific point.

Edited Tuesday at 02:08 AM by Kaballah

[dukedukes]

Axe Cyclone was a mistake, not sure how the devs feel about it these days but the power breaks AT identity IMO. It's too much utility for a DPS/melee AT. Using it as a precedent for more DPS AT's getting trawl is part of the disease this change created.

 

More support AT sets having trawl/repel effects is cool, though nothing should be more effective than Singularity's trawl, being Grav's t9 power. There's a decent number of these powers now but a few more wouldn't hurt IMO, here's the actual repel/trawl powers for reference:

• Singularity
• Black Hole
• Hurricane
• Repulsion Field
• Telekinesis
• Axe Cyclone (my designer brain had a hard time typing this one)

kins Repel is knockback, i'd put that in a different camp but it comes close-ish to the same purpose. Same for sonics repulsion power. There's some other repel powers but they're goofy and not nearly as useful, though still fun.

 

On 7/7/2025 at 1:53 PM, Kaballah said:

Gravity Control/Gravity Distortion Field

 

Grav does not need more trawl powers, it already has the strongest one.

 

On 7/7/2025 at 1:53 PM, Kaballah said:

Force Field/Repulsion Field - These powers are very unpopular because they have a huge area and scatter mobs

I use Repulsion Field as much as possible on my Grav/FF character, the power becomes god-like if you use it to push mobs together instead of further apart, and is incredibly more effective paired with Singularity. Hard to use but there's huge payoff if used well.
 

On 7/7/2025 at 1:53 PM, Kaballah said:

"Area Denial" powers that make mobs scatter

 

If you use a scatter/fear power you counter the downside with a control/immob power. This creates synergy which is arguably a good thing. Balance wise these scatter powers should be made stronger than other powers due to their downside. If you counter the downside you capitalize on their increased strength.

 

On 7/7/2025 at 1:53 PM, Kaballah said:

Gravity Control/Dimension Shift - I have never seen anyone use this power

 

I'm a grav main and I use dimension shift when I get in over my head to become immune to damage. I wouldn't mind if the power changed, like if it did more than an immobilize, but the phasing it does is unique and should stay IMO.

[Kaballah]

14 hours ago, dukedukes said:

Axe Cyclone was a mistake, not sure how the devs feel about it these days but the power breaks AT identity IMO. It's too much utility for a DPS/melee AT. Using it as a precedent for more DPS AT's getting trawl is part of the disease this change created.

It's good and everyone likes it, baffling reaction imo

 

14 hours ago, dukedukes said:

 

I use Repulsion Field as much as possible on my Grav/FF character, the power becomes god-like if you use it to push mobs together instead of further apart, and is incredibly more effective paired with Singularity. Hard to use but there's huge payoff if used well.

I have thousands of hours in this game and I have never seen anyone use it in this way (and almost never at all), I don't know what to tell you.

 

14 hours ago, dukedukes said:

 

If you use a scatter/fear power you counter the downside with a control/immob power. This creates synergy which is arguably a good thing.

 

This isn't synergy, it's working around the annoying downside of Fear and is mechanically no different from just Immobilize.

[Rudra]

55 minutes ago, Kaballah said:

15 hours ago, dukedukes said:

 

If you use a scatter/fear power you counter the downside with a control/immob power. This creates synergy which is arguably a good thing.

 

This isn't synergy, it's working around the annoying downside of Fear and is mechanically no different from just Immobilize.

Not really. If you have a feared target immobilized, that target is effectively held until you or someone else attacks it. In which case they get 1 attack and are locked out from further attacks for the next 10 seconds. If you just immobilize the target, the target can keep attacking.

[dukedukes]

5 hours ago, Kaballah said:

It's good and everyone likes it, baffling reaction imo

 

Of course people like it, it's too strong! People like strong things. You should understand my perspective is about balance and maintaining AT integrity, popularity and thematic intuition (axe cyclone is barely thematic but your suggestions are) are low on my values list. Before HC all the repel powers belonged to control/support sets and it should have stayed this way. Single target or a small cone repel wouldn't be a big deal, it's typical for AT's to get weak versions of things from other AT's but Axe Cyclones 15 ft radius and ~7 sec cd (after recharge bonuses) is wayyy beyond this.

 

5 hours ago, Kaballah said:

I have thousands of hours in this game and I have never seen anyone use it in this way (and almost never at all), I don't know what to tell you.

 

I've never seen anyone else do it either, just me, but it's very strong. Hopefully more try it over time, I wrote a guide to help bring attention to it. I can talk all day about how good Repulsion Field is, there's a lot of depth and challenge to using it well.

 

6 hours ago, Kaballah said:

This isn't synergy, it's working around the annoying downside of Fear and is mechanically no different from just Immobilize.

 

If a power makes another power more effective I'll stick to calling it a synergy.

[Kaballah]

8 hours ago, Rudra said:

Not really. If you have a feared target immobilized, that target is effectively held until you or someone else attacks it. In which case they get 1 attack and are locked out from further attacks for the next 10 seconds. If you just immobilize the target, the target can keep attacking.

you are thinking of Terrify, this isn't the same as Fear.

e: the wiki refers to these separate effects as "Afraid" (i.e. running away from things, the annoying and not super-useful effect) and "Fear" (cowering and not attacking). Whatever name you want to apply to these effects, they aren't the same, and rains/snow storm etc. don't inflict the cowering variety.

Edited Thursday at 03:51 PM by Kaballah

[Kaballah]

2 hours ago, dukedukes said:

Of course people like it, it's too strong! People like strong things. You should understand my perspective is about balance and maintaining AT integrity, popularity and thematic intuition (axe cyclone is barely thematic but your suggestions are) are low on my values list. Before HC all the repel powers belonged to control/support sets and it should have stayed this way. Single target or a small cone repel wouldn't be a big deal, it's typical for AT's to get weak versions of things from other AT's but Axe Cyclones 15 ft radius and ~7 sec cd (after recharge bonuses) is wayyy beyond this.

 

crab pot mentality, sorry I don't agree with this at all. the time to have fought against the change to axe cyclone was prior to it being rolled out and welcomed by pretty much everybody.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Kaballah said:

you are thinking of Terrify, this isn't the same as Fear.

e: the wiki refers to these separate effects as "Afraid" (i.e. running away from things, the annoying and not super-useful effect) and "Fear" (cowering and not attacking). Whatever name you want to apply to these effects, they aren't the same, and rains/snow storm etc. don't inflict the cowering variety.

Nope. Pretty sure I am referring to Fear.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Fear

 

If you have a feared target immobilized, it just stands there and cowers. If you attack it while it is feared and immobilized, it will either counter-attack once or try to run away. Except it can't try to run away because it is immobilized. So it will do its one counterattack and resume cowering.

 

Afraid is the status effect that simply causes running.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Afraid

 

Edit: And both of you specifically said "Fear". So that is what I am going with.

 

Edit again: Now, for Rain of Fire and other powers that cause mobs to scatter? Immobilizing them is still synergistic in that it keeps those immobilized mobs in the damage patch. If you can cause a power to inflict more damage on an enemy with another power? That is pretty synergistic.

 

Edited Thursday at 05:21 PM by Rudra

[Kaballah]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

If you have a feared target immobilized, it just stands there and cowers.

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Afraid is the status effect that simply causes running.

 

this is what I said, yes.

e: and the cowering effect already stops them from moving, immobilize does not affect that (although if the immob does damage, as most of them do, it will allow them to counter attack)

again this isn't synergy, you may like the outcome, but it's directly negating the obvious intended effect of both CC statuses in question (i.e. stopping them from running away, or allowing them to counter attack).

Edited Thursday at 08:59 PM by Kaballah

[Rudra]

37 minutes ago, Kaballah said:

 

 

this is what I said, yes.

e: and the cowering effect already stops them from moving, immobilize does not affect that (although if the immob does damage, as most of them do, it will allow them to counter attack)

again this isn't synergy, you may like the outcome, but it's directly negating the obvious intended effect of both CC statuses in question (i.e. stopping them from running away, or allowing them to counter attack).

Fear

 

 

 

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Overview

Fear is a Status Effect. A mob or player under the affects of a Fear power will cower in terror for the duration of the power. NPC enemies have a chance to run a short distance or stand still and cower. Most importantly, while Fear is in effect, the target cannot attack unless it is attacked first. Then the target can either perform one counter-attack, or run away for 10 seconds, after which it will go back to cowering until the Fear effect wears off. Fear does not detoggle its target. Fear effects of this type are labeled Terrorize in the real numbers display and under the health bar hen affected by it.

 

Edited Thursday at 09:33 PM by Rudra
Edited to add second highlight.

[Seed22]

9 hours ago, dukedukes said:

Of course people like it, it's too strong! People like strong things. You should understand my perspective is about balance and maintaining AT integrity, popularity and thematic intuition (axe cyclone is barely thematic but your suggestions are) are low on my values list. Before HC all the repel powers belonged to control/support sets and it should have stayed this way. Single target or a small cone repel wouldn't be a big deal, it's typical for AT's to get weak versions of things from other AT's but Axe Cyclones 15 ft radius and ~7 sec cd (after recharge bonuses) is wayyy beyond this.

This is such a fascinating take to me, and I understand your trepidations but this kind of has me sad and worried for your camp. Axe Cyclone is not too powerful or remotely busted. It's strong, and noticeable on a tank, but not busted. It's not like it's wormhole grabbing mobs around corners(also not busted for gravity) but on tanks. 

 

My main fear comes from the mindset that CoH players have come to accept and acknowledge a level of painfully mediocre as the "norm" for balance, and look at fun and actually useful for once, as the enemy and unbalanced when it's not. It's actually GOOD. We used to as a community know what this was, then HC for the most part brought the bar significantly down with painfully mediocre release after mediocre release. This is so common place people mistake this drab scenario of forgetful releases as the correct way, which it most assuredly is not.

 

People made the same arguments with Marine being OP. It's not, it's actually the natural evolution of support sets imo and mostly just good and particularly great on MM, which is a fine place to be in the grand scene of sets. 

 

You made a fine, articulated argument and im not trying to put words in your mouth, more just springboarding to voice my thoughts on the camp you're kind of in or adjacent to.

[dukedukes]

11 hours ago, Seed22 said:

This is such a fascinating take to me, and I understand your trepidations but this kind of has me sad and worried for your camp. Axe Cyclone is not too powerful or remotely busted. It's strong, and noticeable on a tank, but not busted. It's not like it's wormhole grabbing mobs around corners(also not busted for gravity) but on tanks. 

 

My main fear comes from the mindset that CoH players have come to accept and acknowledge a level of painfully mediocre as the "norm" for balance, and look at fun and actually useful for once, as the enemy and unbalanced when it's not. It's actually GOOD. We used to as a community know what this was, then HC for the most part brought the bar significantly down with painfully mediocre release after mediocre release. This is so common place people mistake this drab scenario of forgetful releases as the correct way, which it most assuredly is not.

 

People made the same arguments with Marine being OP. It's not, it's actually the natural evolution of support sets imo and mostly just good and particularly great on MM, which is a fine place to be in the grand scene of sets. 

 

You made a fine, articulated argument and im not trying to put words in your mouth, more just springboarding to voice my thoughts on the camp you're kind of in or adjacent to.

 

It's not that powers like Axe Cyclone shouldn't exist, I'm arguing for classifying it as a support power. Using repel or kb powers to group mobs is a synergy for everyone on the team, it seems like a control/support role should be doing this.

The change to Black Hole mimicking Axe Cyclone I thought was a great change and I argued for it to be buffed, I'd like to see more of these powers be created but with the classification I'm arguing for in mind. Melee and other AT's can have repel powers but with reduced effectiveness like the blaster secondary repel powers (arguably a bit better). So, the fun can exist, you just have to play an AT that owns the effect to do so at full strength. It's the same reasoning that will drive you to play any particular AT, tanks for tankiness, blasters for nukes, etc.

[arcane]

12 hours ago, Seed22 said:

This is such a fascinating take to me, and I understand your trepidations but this kind of has me sad and worried for your camp. Axe Cyclone is not too powerful or remotely busted. It's strong, and noticeable on a tank, but not busted. It's not like it's wormhole grabbing mobs around corners(also not busted for gravity) but on tanks. 

 

My main fear comes from the mindset that CoH players have come to accept and acknowledge a level of painfully mediocre as the "norm" for balance, and look at fun and actually useful for once, as the enemy and unbalanced when it's not. It's actually GOOD. We used to as a community know what this was, then HC for the most part brought the bar significantly down with painfully mediocre release after mediocre release. This is so common place people mistake this drab scenario of forgetful releases as the correct way, which it most assuredly is not.

 

People made the same arguments with Marine being OP. It's not, it's actually the natural evolution of support sets imo and mostly just good and particularly great on MM, which is a fine place to be in the grand scene of sets. 

 

You made a fine, articulated argument and im not trying to put words in your mouth, more just springboarding to voice my thoughts on the camp you're kind of in or adjacent to.

I think, by now, pretty much everyone here understands that you would rather drink bleach than play CoH. 

[Shin Magmus]

   Just to clarify since some people are talking in circles and still don't get it.  In-game, some powers are called Fears but the in-game name of the status they inflict is Terrorize.  It has always been Terrorize, although Fear is sometimes used interchangeably which is confusing.  When you inspect the detailed info of a power like Caltrops or Tornado, you will see Fear instead of Terrorize: that Fear is what will be listed as Afraid on City of Data.

 

Terrorize is an actual Mez, that can be enhanced and that directly disrupts the enemy's ability to attack you: Good.

Fear/Afraid is an enemy-only AI effect, that cannot be enhanced and that makes enemies run like cowardly fuckheads: Bad.

[Rudra]

37 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

   Just to clarify since some people are talking in circles and still don't get it.  In-game, some powers are called Fears but the in-game name of the status they inflict is Terrorize.  It has always been Terrorize, although Fear is sometimes used interchangeably which is confusing.  When you inspect the detailed info of a power like Caltrops or Tornado, you will see Fear instead of Terrorize: that Fear is what will be listed as Afraid on City of Data.

 

Terrorize is an actual Mez, that can be enhanced and that directly disrupts the enemy's ability to attack you: Good.

Fear/Afraid is an enemy-only AI effect, that cannot be enhanced and that makes enemies run like cowardly fuckheads: Bad.

Just to be clear:

Fear (Terrorized) causes targets to cower or run away.

Fear (Afraid) causes targets to run away.

 

And yes, Fear (Terrorized) will cause enemies to run away, because Fearsome Stare has caused foes to flee and so has Intimidate. They most often cower in place, but they can (and will) run away as well. (Edit: Upon taking damage is when it usually happens.) (Edit again: They don't have to take damage to run away. Sometimes I hit them with Fearsome Stare and they cower for a moment and then run away. Lacking immobs on my MM, I respec'ed out of Fearsome Stare. Not because Fearsome Stare is a bad power, because it isn't. Simply because I lacked a means of countering the runners.)

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Rudra

[Shin Magmus]

The main set that has Fearsome Stare also has Tar Patch so.... and the second set with Fearsome Stare has an AoE Immob so...

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

The main set that has Fearsome Stare also has Tar Patch so.... and the second set with Fearsome Stare has an AoE Immob so...

The 5th Column and Council wolves just run out of Tar Patch. And they weren't the only ones doing so. I love Tar Patch. I use it a lot on the characters that have it. Didn't help enough with Fearsome Stare.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

The 5th Column and Council wolves just run out of Tar Patch.

The 5th Column and Council wolves are also highly resistant to Slows and Immobilization, which means that you're basically SoL trying to stop them from running when you Fear them.

[kelika2]

On 7/9/2025 at 11:47 AM, dukedukes said:

Axe Cyclone was a mistake, not sure how the devs feel about it these days but the power breaks AT identity IMO. It's too much utility for a DPS/melee AT. Using it as a precedent for more DPS AT's getting trawl is part of the disease this change created.

I think you might be the first person to complain about axe cyclone