Invulnerability

[Lazarus]

CAN we get a new heal/regen power as another exclusive option for Invulnerability.

 

THE new heal for ice armor is great,..energize or something close to that.

[MTeague]

I mean, I wouldn't turn it down.... but Invulnerability has always been an extremely solid armor set as is. 

Personally, I just slot a Panacea proc (health) and a Power Transfer proc (stamina), and that's my maintenance heals. Dull Pain and/or teammates handle the big ones.

[FupDup]

Invuln is a set more about preventing damage than bouncing back from it. Lack of sustain is meant to be its main weakness (unless you're using the Sentinel version that has sustain, in which case your weakness is being a Sentinel). 

 

Maybe the T9 could be remodeled to resemble the new Elec Armor T9 to serve the healing power role, because right now Unstoppable is pretty much a delayed suicide button. 

[Lazarus]

1 hour ago, FupDup said:

Lack of sustain is meant to be its main weakness

I all ways thought it was the lack of END management and PSY protection. 

[FupDup]

2 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

I all ways thought it was the lack of END management and PSY protection. 

I count lack of end management as a part of “sustain” (both regen/heals and recovery). 
 

The psi hole isn’t as big as it used to be, nor is psi a super common damage type. The lack of heal/endurance tools meanwhile applies to all fights.

[tidge]

Is Dull Pain not a thing?

 

EDIT: If this is about wanting a sustain... I don't see the need. In my experience, Invulnerability doesn't need to run all of its (resistance, travel) toggles all the time. and as a practical matter slotting them with Resistance, Resistance/Endurance gets them pretty good values and lower End costs. No matter the AT, there probably should be some Endurance reduction in attacks.

 

For Regeneration: The large Tanker/Brute HP pool already puts them high on the HP-refill side, a single slot of Power Transfer %Heal is shockingly good for those ATs. The contribution to slotting a single Healing/EndMod pieces in Health/Stamina goes far (for all AT), even before considering IO globals.

 

The only hard-to-get bit of 'layering' survivability for Invuln from my PoV is Absorb... if a desired change to Invuln is requested, a choice between a +Absorb and Dull Pain makes more sense to me than to ask for a Sustain.

Edited Tuesday at 12:58 PM by tidge

[baster]

Reading this thread inspired s general idea.

 Add some % HP heal in to health. Keep the slow ticks but add the ability to click the heath skill and heal for say:

30% of your total HP on a 2 minute  cooldown for all ATs when 3 sloted.

 

30% endurance recharge when 3 sloted on a 1 minute cooldown.

 

Remove endurance cost from sprint.

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:21 PM by baster

[El D]

Any alteration to Invulnerability is going to have to account for the fact that the set is incredibly solid as is and overcomes it's minimal weaknesses very easily with IO slotting. Which admittedly is possible for most sets but Invul does it very well. Also like @tidge said, Dull Pain already exists. If used proactively there's no need for in-combat healing beyond procs and innate regeneration - an Invulnerability character should have enough health and blunt enough incoming damage that their HP bar remains green for entire combats against most enemy groups.

 

Not that I'm opposed to additions or modifications, I'm just having trouble seeing where they'd factor in given the current performance of the set. Any alternate to Dull Pain would need to be equivalent to it after all, at which point... just use Dull Pain. Unstoppable is probably the easiest option to modify, given how outdated the original tier 9 design is by this point between IOs and Incarnate powers. Maybe it could be a toggle that adjusts resistance/defense buffs depending on in-coming damage-types (though that feels a bit too Bio Armor-y). A toggle or auto +Absorb mechanic could work too. Armor Tier 9s not being early 2000s god mode powers but just useful extra options would make them... well, useful.

Edited Tuesday at 02:37 PM by El D

[Lazarus]

OK i hear what your saying, which leaves me with 1 question.

 

WHY is sustain ok for other armor sets WITH dullpain ,..ie(ice, stone) but, not invulnerability?

[tidge]

I can't speak for Ice or Stone, as I've never used them as armors... but Invulnerability is nearly perfect, except for its joke of a T9... MHO is that if Unstoppable could be traded for 4 more inspiration slots I think I'd respec immediately to take advantage of it. It can be a mule for an IO without investing any slots, but that is about it for ultimate utility IMO.

 

In my experience with Invulnerability, it doesn't particularly shine at low levels (resistances don't mean much, and toggles drain endurance) without relying on temp powers or global IOs (starting at level 10)... so some ATs may feel 'slower to start' than others... and running all the toggles can make it feel like "where is my sustain?"... but because of the way the resistance are grouped with certain toggles it isn't necessary to keep them all toggled on, or even to take each of them ASAP. For example: I've often delayed Resist Energies until the late 20s because there is some pool power that would be more useful to me below that level.

 

If given the choice between a Dull Pain (+MaxHP, Heal) and an Absorb (with or without a secondary effect)... it would be something of a close call for me. For 99% of the games content I don't even touch Dull Pain.... so a faster recharging Absorb would probably suit me better. It's the last 1% of the content for which I'm comfortable working below full Health but want a heal and +MaxHP before things go truly pear-shaped that would probably get me to stick with Dull Pain... there are just too many extra things I've built into my Invulnerables that kick in once the Green bar starts burning. (Like %+HP, %Absorb, Scaling Damage Resistance). It's possible of course that if I hung sufficiently below top HP and also got Absorb it would go even better... but for some content my Invuln Tanks feel like they can hang longer than my Rad Tanks.

[Captain Citadel]

If you build Invuln Tankers properly, you can run a ton of toggles and barely feel it. Only thing I don't like about it is Unstoppable, and the fact that Sentinels have a better version of Invuln than everybody else., because they combined Resist Elements and Resist Energies into Environmental Resistance and got Durability as a new auto power for that slot, which seems like a really useful ability.

But I just don't take Unstoppable, and design my build around patching up the Psionic damage hole, among other things. Once I'm actually in the thick of combat, my resistance to all forms of damage is 70% or higher with one stack of my ATO set proc. And my defense ratings are fairly high as well. Very few attacks actually hit me, and the few that do are heavily resisted.

I rarely use Dull Pain but you can slot some powerful healing sets in it, I'm pretty sure I 6-slotted mine.

[Psyonico]

3 hours ago, Lazarus said:

WHY is sustain ok for other armor sets WITH dullpain ,..ie(ice, stone) but, not invulnerability?

Ice has bigger holes than invulnerability does.  Inv gets good defense and resistance to all but Psi and Toxic, to which it only gets decent resistance.  Ice doesn’t get good defense to Fire or Cold and doesn’t get good resistance to S/L/E/N/P

 

Stone… technically gets sustain help, but I wouldn’t say it has good sustain.

[Biff Pow]

7 hours ago, Lazarus said:

OK i hear what your saying, which leaves me with 1 question.

 

WHY is sustain ok for other armor sets WITH dullpain ,..ie(ice, stone) but, not invulnerability?

 

Invulnerability has four auto powers and just three toggles (which are pretty light on endurance.) It doesn't really need a recovery boost.