AE farms

[Rage]

Just to toss my two cents into the ring. This is a pointless debate whether you are a farmer AE or otherwise, or if you're on the other side and don't like farming etc... As someone alluded to earlier this is a game and what brings enjoyment to one does not necessarily bring it to another. There are enough people on teaming shouldn't be a problem and if one server is polarizing to a specific way of operating the game is new enough again move to a different server. Bottom line is there are options and if you are focusing on how others play you are obviously not enjoying the game yourself. Someone else farming in AE should not affect your play. Some people like 50's play style. Others like all the content. I myself am a mix between the two. But again you happiness in game should not be fixated on what others that you don't even play with or socialize with are doing I don't see how that ruins anyone's fun nor should it. Join an SG that is running missions, Change servers if you're on the wrong one. Post up the LFG tab etc... Go play, fly defeat baddies. The game is back why on earth do we want to relive the arguments of the games final days.  I for one am having a blast and we don't know for how long this time realistically so my biggest suggestion is soak it all up for as long as we can.

 

Happy Hunting

Rage

Omega Factor

[Crysis]

So remind me....

 

If they are going to nerf AE farms, we still have the portal missions that make decent farms right?  City maps, that cemetery map, etc?

 

It's been a looooong time, but I think I'm not supposed to talk to that contact until I ding 50 right?  Not unless I want to outlevel those maps and use them for farming instead?

[ferzth]

Back in the day, my first Level 50, Superluminal, took about a year of real life.  When I popped 50, it felt like a massive accomplishment, exhausting yet exhilarating.

 

Then I joined an SG that ran mainly TFs and AE.  Most, if not all of my toons after that, were either (mostly) PL-ed or door-sat in AE.  Probably had about fifteen or so level 50s, and only really played about 5 at the end (not enough hours in the day).  AE was fun to get new ATs to 50 for all their new crunchy powers, but as others have said here, I played a mix of styles and ATs and missions and TFs.

 

Everyone (I'll generalize), wanted to take advantage of the clearly broken XP-leveling mechanics of AE, when it first came out.  I know I did, and many members of my SG did.  Why wait weeks or months to fully realize a new AT or feed your alt-itis, when you can have that toon to 50 in hours?  We all took advantage of that.

 

On the new servers, I probably have about 15 toons or so.  None are over 20.  Two have gone through AE (still less than 20).  I have run door missions, countless Sewer runs, contact and radio missions, and will continue to do so.  I make it a point, if they want, to mentor new players.  To run Sewer missions for newbies and those of us trying (retrying) old and new ATs.  I have found that many want to team, at lower levels, but none want the star themselves.  I hope that will change.

 

AE will always have its place in CoX.  Genie is out of the bottle.  The sense of community and excitement in 2019 is intoxicating and I'm sure many of the new players cannot appreciate how giddy us veterans feel about the game being (perhaps temporarily) reborn.

 

Let AE farmers and hangers-on farm.  Stay out of their way.  Play your own style and content.  Solo or team to your heart's content.  There was too much drama back in the day over AE.  The community in 2019 has real concerns about the future of our game (which is currently FREE!).  That should be our focus, not on rehashing tired arguments and complaints.

[Chris943]

I've played COH since launch and there have always been farms.  Always.  Dark/regen scraps, any/regen scraps, have always ran the same mission over and over and over.  I remember people raging when someone white knighted and completed the mission so it couldn't be farmed anymore.  AE just put it forward and made it easier.

 

Live servers went through the same process of nerfing AE exp, or restricting how many mobs could be on the map, etc...  If you love doing nothing but AE, that's great, more power.  Just don't be surprised if it gets nerfed here and there.

[Piledriver]

 

Except we just got an XP reduction on the AE.

 

The nerfherders seem to have a real saying with the homecoming team. This is unsettling.

 

Maybe. Hopefully not.

 

What I do know is that farms can be a big demand on the system because of all the active AI going at once. That may have also been why the aggro cap was reduced. Games have always struggled to fake massive numbers of active enemies by grouping them into instances and/or dividing up processing cycles between smaller groups. I believe City of Heroes just makes them super stupid and brute forces through, but I could be wrong and even with optimization it's just too much when enough instances are packed with wall-to-wall mobs.

 

That said, I'm totally using this definition of nerfherders (gamers who want to dictate how others play) from here on. I like that.

[Blue Jay]

this what happened in the last game i played hackers ruined it for everyone farmin AEs and gettin mobs to heal u and just anything to cheat there no extened maintenance there trying to catch the hacker and we pay for it so unless people don't let GM'S know of wrong doing's in the game it we ruin it and there we not be a COH IT WELL BE GONE TO THE AMERICANS!!!!!!!

 

I don't know what you just said, but it's rubbish

[_NOPE_]

this what happened in the last game i played hackers ruined it for everyone farmin AEs and gettin mobs to heal u and just anything to cheat there no extened maintenance there trying to catch the hacker and we pay for it so unless people don't let GM'S know of wrong doing's in the game it we ruin it and there we not be a COH IT WELL BE GONE TO THE AMERICANS!!!!!!!

 

I don't know what you just said, but it's rubbish

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/UniqueDragon

 

[deathevan]

What do you mean by “fix?” It is working as designed.

 

AE was never designed or meant for farming, or the devs at cryptic wouldn't have hit it several times with a nerf bat. Anyone can do whatever they want with it,  more power to you, but to say this is pure delusion.

[Beeze]

Why does how one person play bother or concern anyone else?  I do not tell you what missions you have to run.  I prefer to farm because it is my style.  I have been through the missions back in the day and l love looking at the ability to buy recipes with tickets or have influence to build up and share because of the AE farming.  The same people complaining about AE farms do not complain about taking influence earned from same farms through costume contests or other things.  Let it be.

[brigg]

In the original game, inf became almost valueless.  Wentworth's broke down at the most expensive items; the PvP defense IO sold for more than the inf cap.

 

I wouldn't say valueless, but you'd have to play the WW game to get those high value IOs. There is a way around that tho. Those running the servers can flood the market with cheaper IOs to keep costs down. Finding a base cost is difficult however.

 

As for wanting to run a TF but can't because everyone is farming? First, I thought I avoided using "everyone", but regardless, there's always people willing to do both. The mass numbers that have populated this project in the last week alone are giving options to team up for all sorts of stuff.

 

Having the option to powerlevel using AE or otherwise gives people the option to play how they want. No need to snub them.

[Blue Jay]

Why does how one person play bother or concern anyone else?  I do not tell you what missions you have to run.  I prefer to farm because it is my style.  I have been through the missions back in the day and l love looking at the ability to buy recipes with tickets or have influence to build up and share because of the AE farming.  The same people complaining about AE farms do not complain about taking influence earned from same farms through costume contests or other things.  Let it be.

 

This. This is my entire point! CoX is meant to be played HOWEVER each plays it. It's not a competition with one another.

[Piledriver]

What do you mean by “fix?” It is working as designed.

 

AE was never designed or meant for farming, or the devs at cryptic wouldn't have hit it several times with a nerf bat. Anyone can do whatever they want with it,  more power to you, but to say this is pure delusion.

 

Yeah, I think the Paragon Studios guys also intentionally created monkey-shaped XP sacks for AE in order to ensure most players had a few well-outfitted 50s on hand when endgame content was in the offing.

 

They did cave to the nerfherders a few times, though. And every single time they wound up breaking something legitimate creative AE users were using (rezzing enemies, for instance, were a great gimmick for vampires and zombies, but nobody would play something if the enemies pop back up worth no XP or anything, storyline or no), if not basic functionality (proximity triggers were altered to all go off across the map, presumably because someone was using them to sequentially trigger ambushes or something related to farms, thus breaking a fundamental storytelling device).

 

So, no, whether they were trying to manipulate player activity or just to appease the complainers, it was a mistake. No nerfing short of completely disabling the entire system will ever prevent farmers from adapting and finding a way; farming only requires the most rudimentary game functionality, after all. AE should have been given attention in the other direction, expanding its storytelling capabilities and giving players more ways of using it, instead of nerf batting it until it could hardly avail much beyond a simple farm.

[Mikazuki]

Just think the best era of farming was when lv50s had their few choice missions that they'd run over and over with friends and sell party slots for inf for whoever wanted to get their lowbie character powerleveled, and they didnt really have an incentive to fill their group otherwise.

 

But on a fresh server with a lot of users just starting out, everyone just wanting to do AE farms and nothing else is just meh.

[barrier]

 

 

I wouldn't say valueless, but you'd have to play the WW game to get those high value IOs. There is a way around that tho. Those running the servers can flood the market with cheaper IOs to keep costs down. Finding a base cost is difficult however.

 

This won't work unless there are vendors out there anchoring prices. Wentworth's UI is designed by socialist monkeys. The information asymmetries that could have been resolved by good UX coders are the reason market pvp works so well in this game.

[Stray]

At one point I was against power leveling, then I didn't care, and now I participate in it. It's all in the eye of the beholder, so to speak, and people will do what is the most fun for them. No reason to attack people over it. Even when I was against it, I never browbeat any of my friends who did it because that's just dumb. That's like saying that people who like vanilla more than chocolate are heretics.

 

As to your point about finding teams, I haven't had any trouble personally on any server. The problem for a lot of mid-level content right now is that people either aren't to that level yet, or the ones that are just aren't interested. It is a shame as there's some great content, but "fixing" AE won't change that.

 

Before AE, it was Portal Corp demon farms, Freakshow farms, Banished Pantheon farms, wolf farms.  Farming has always been a part of the game.  It's human nature, part of what makes a game a game: the object is to achieve certain goals, so people will find the shortest way to get there. 

 

Family farms too. I think it was the family farm that was removed from the game in an attempt to quell power leveling, but all that succeeded in doing was making money for the people who had it as an active mission since they charged admission to it.

[Piledriver]

So, I've now seen all the crowing going on over at Massively. If that's the perception of the move, either the server ops need to clarify that this really was their intent or absolutely was not.

 

I have no doubt that killing AE XP outright (for nerfherding reasons) will send many players packing for other servers at the first opportunity. While farmers would find or return to other means, the decision would be a sign of authoritarian leanings that will inevitably spread to other aspects of the game.

[Primantis]

Before people grab their torches and pitchforks. I would like to emphasis the last part of the announcement.

 

"...but we need to discourage overuse for the moment."

 

 

So it does sound like stability is the leading concern for this change. Of course people are free to believe what they want.

 

 

 

[tricon]

So, I've now seen all the crowing going on over at Massively. If that's the perception of the move, either the server ops need to clarify that this really was their intent or absolutely was not.

 

I have no doubt that killing AE XP outright (for nerfherding reasons) will send many players packing for other servers at the first opportunity. While farmers would find or return to other means, the decision would be a sign of authoritarian leanings that will inevitably spread to other aspects of the game.

 

From a question on reddit today, not from me :P

Two of the Three Farms...what was Third one?

 

On Peregrine...Battle Maiden thru Maria Jenkins...Demon Farm through Harvey Mayor... what was the third? Or was there even one and I'm going senile?

And she/he got quite a few answers.

 

So I would say farming always find a way back and IMHO it's part of the identity of the game since the beginning. What did

we early on do, from running around in teams in the old hazard zones into dumpster jumping with all the mobs behind us to saving some "special" missions. In the end AE and the new difficulty system just level the playing field or should I say the raised the comfort level for doing so.

 

Coexistence between all the differnt playstyles should not be a problem.

 

[RedwoodElf]

Why does how one person play bother or concern anyone else?  I do not tell you what missions you have to run.  I prefer to farm because it is my style.  I have been through the missions back in the day and l love looking at the ability to buy recipes with tickets or have influence to build up and share because of the AE farming.  The same people complaining about AE farms do not complain about taking influence earned from same farms through costume contests or other things.  Let it be.

 

This. This is my entire point! CoX is meant to be played HOWEVER each plays it. It's not a competition with one another.

 

Unless you want to rule the world!  (Channeling his old Mastermind, Botman): They laughed when I said I would power an army of robots with tapioca pudding, but I'll show them! I'll show them ALL! BWAHAHAHAAAAAA!

[SwitchFade]

Having played CoH from issue 2 to 22, I can honestly say that AE single handedly broke the game for people I watched try the game for the first time, as well as most others. I, as well as many, have a fire/kin farmer, and enjoy it as well, in its place, in zones away from lowbies.

 

I truly feel that farming is a natural part of min/maxing, an integral part of this game and tons of fun. That said, I leveled my farmer, as well as my 30 other alts up to 50 through missions, arcs and what not. I don't mind at all if people get pl'd, but spammed AE missions that are clearly broken taking over every channel is culture breaking for everything.

 

And this is the key, CoH is a CULTURE, it has so much depth and richness, that AE ruins. It has nothing to do with farming, do that in Peregrine, PL your buddies, but keep it zone specific with content from missions, not borked content.

 

AE was worse than the GDN, ED, movement suppression, all Regen nerfs, aggro cap and Jack Emmerts attitude.

 

Lock AE behind a level wall, Nerf the exp to 1/10th... Anything to assure that we preserve what made this game great, its culture.

 

Think back before AE, running frostfire, posi, dark Astoria, faultline... Remember all that fun? Don't kill that for newbies. Let's all be new again.

[Beeze]

Having played CoH from issue 2 to 22, I can honestly say that AE single handedly broke the game for people I watched try the game for the first time, as well as most others. I, as well as many, have a fire/kin farmer, and enjoy it as well, in its place, in zones away from lowbies.

 

I truly feel that farming is a natural part of min/maxing, an integral part of this game and tons of fun. That said, I leveled my farmer, as well as my 30 other alts up to 50 through missions, arcs and what not. I don't mind at all if people get pl'd, but spammed AE missions that are clearly broken taking over every channel is culture breaking for everything.

 

And this is the key, CoH is a CULTURE, it has so much depth and richness, that AE ruins. It has nothing to do with farming, do that in Peregrine, PL your buddies, but keep it zone specific with content from missions, not borked content.

 

AE was worse than the GDN, ED, movement suppression, all Regen nerfs, aggro cap and Jack Emmerts attitude.

 

Lock AE behind a level wall, Nerf the exp to 1/10th... Anything to assure that we preserve what made this game great, its culture.

 

Think back before AE, running frostfire, posi, dark Astoria, faultline... Remember all that fun? Don't kill that for newbies. Let's all be new again.

This is a matter of opinion.  To us that chose to use the AE and enjoy it for the farming is the same as those choosing to take a route of missions for the story.  Our play styles may not be the same, but I am not telling you how and what missions to run, so why tell me how to use AE or even not to have it to use?

[Piledriver]

Inside the minds of controlling people

 

This is what it is, basically. It is about different personality types more than an argument we can resolve.

 

 

[Lady Sadako]

AE farms are like the big shiny megamart that opens outside of town, and the regular content is like the little Mom & Pop store in town where they greet you by name and ask after your family.

 

If the megamart opens, people will go there. It's convenient, it has what people need, and if it's soulless, so what? People go there to save money and get the groceries they need, not to have an enriching life experience.

 

Besides, it's their money. They can spend it where they like.

 

But it would be dishonest to say the little Mom & Pop store won't suffer as a result.

 

So what are you going to do? Force the megamart to close, just for the sake of preserving the spirit of the town? Or let it keep running, and watch people beat a path there until some of the newest arrivals don't even know the Mom & Pop store exists?

 

Hope you all have an answer that suits everyone, because I don't.

[CircularMoon]

I dont want to sound dumb here, but what is AE farm? - I see a lot of this in chat spam. but not sure what it means?  :)

 

[Piledriver]

I dont want to sound dumb here, but what is AE farm? - I see a lot of this in chat spam. but not sure what it means?  :)

 

Architect Entertainment was added to the game in Issue 14. Much like the holodeck for Star Trek Online, also created by Cryptic, it is a system for user-created missions. From the very beginning, some people used it to create efficient farms. There are two basic types of farm. The XP farm, which would be a large outdoor or cave map full of spawned groups and patrols that would take thirty minutes to an hour to clear, used for power-leveling. And the Ticket farm, which was usually a small map with a lot of ambush triggers near the entrance, allowing AOE farming builds to bypass the aggro cap for one big burst, capping out the ticket rewards for the map in under five minutes.

 

It has changed since i14, including various content and functionality nerfs that broke some of the storytelling functionality in order to appease complaints about the farms, and changes specific to Issue 25, such as making all AE missions function like previous "Dev Choice" content, optionally paying out normal game rewards instead of tickets.

 

 

*edit*

 

The Ticket farm design is probably the hardest on the server because it bypasses the aggro cap. With those, you've got hundreds of enemies being aggroed at the same time. Probably even more than a team of eight could aggro otherwise, even if there's only one player in the farm. Ironically, the XP nerf "solution" would not much impact the original purpose of that farm design (so go do it for tickets, passive-aggressively! j/k (seriously, don't do that)), but a lot of players never understood that Ticket farms were not intended for power-leveling and are less efficient for XP gains due to the constant starting and stopping, so they ignorantly use them for that anyway.