What are the current thoughts on Dark Melee/Super Reflexes?

[SemanticAntics]

I had a DM/SR Scrapper back on live that I remember enjoying, but I don't think I've touched Scrappers in years. Many of the builds and threads I found when searching for this combination are quite old now and I'm not sure how the various changes have affected this pairing. I'm in my mid-20s and looking to start slotting IOs, and I'd appreciate some advice.

 

I plan to build for defense (no sense playing /SR without softcapped defenses, right?) and recharge. Is that enough, or should I have other goals as well? Are there any particular powers or quirks I should be aware of with this combination?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Uncle Shags]

Amazing combo. Giving SR a heal is game breaking. 

[aethereal]

Dark melee does bad damage, SR doesn't need the to-hit debuffs, everyone can get plenty durable.  This is a combo that trades lots of performance ceiling for an easier levelling experience.

[venetiasilver]

A nod to @Werner

The Man the Myth The Legend.

[SomeGuy]

11 hours ago, aethereal said:

Dark melee does bad damage, SR doesn't need the to-hit debuffs, everyone can get plenty durable.  This is a combo that trades lots of performance ceiling for an easier levelling experience.

 

 

This. SR is a good set. Really good set. Dark Melee? In terms of performance? Not so much. Not to say it isn't a lot of fun (easily one of my favs), but if you can't ignore performance, it does not have it.

[Uncle Shags]

If you're just looking for pure damage look elsewhere. But if you want to trade a little damage for a ridiculous amount of survivability, DM/SR is my pick. 

 

[aethereal]

If you want to sacrifice damage for survivability, then DM/Inv sounds better.  Inv wants a heal just as much as SR does, and can better leverage the -to-hit of DM.

[Uncle Shags]

2 hours ago, aethereal said:

If you want to sacrifice damage for survivability, then DM/Inv sounds better.  Inv wants a heal just as much as SR does, and can better leverage the -to-hit of DM

OP isn't asking about Inv.  They're talking about starting up their old toon.

 

And the fact that SR doesn't need the - to-hit is a good thing, not a bad.  It needs a heal. Which DM has. 

 

And I'll just say it: DM/Inv is crap compared to DM/SR for survival. 

 

This is kind of weird. An old player is coming back to relive their glory days. I say to go for it because I know from experience it's a great combo. You immediately try to talk them out of it for niggling reasons. Seems weird... 

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:

OP isn't asking about Inv.  They're talking about starting up their old toon.

 

And the fact that SR doesn't need the - to-hit is a good thing, not a bad.  It needs a heal. Which DM has. 

 

I mean, I assure you that SR doesn't need a heal.  But the fact that it doesn't need the -to-hit is, I mean, it's a strength of SR, but it weakens the synergy between DM and SR.  You're basically "paying" for that -to-hit, and not benefitting from it.

 

2 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:

 

And I'll just say it: DM/Inv is crap compared to DM/SR for survival. 

 

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about, but if you want to explain your thinking here, go for it.

 

2 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:

 

This is kind of weird. An old player is coming back to relive their glory days. I say to go for it because I know from experience it's a great combo. You immediately try to talk them out of it for niggling reasons. Seems weird... 

 

I feel like the OP is probably a big boy who doesn't need people to condescend to him.  He can just hear the basic facts on the ground, which is this:  DM/SR was an old-school combo from back when it was impossible for SR to softcap everything or expensive to the point of being out of reach with most players.  If your defense is high, but not softcapped, then DM adds an enormous amount of survival.  But in an environment where SR can solidly softcap every defense without any real trouble, then the synergy goes away.  You're left with one of the lowest-damage Scrapper sets in the game and an okay-ish heal that you really don't need because SR can be plenty durable without the heal.

 

If you want to find synergy with DM, look to a set that gives you good-but-not-great defenses and plug your holes with the -to-hit and wants the okay-ish heal (like, say, Invul, or maybe Bio).  If you want to make SR more durable, probably look to a set that gives you lots of knockdown.

 

If you want to just play DM/SR because you like the theming or visuals or whatever, then cool, absolutely do that.  You'll have a viable character.  But understand that it's not a particularly good combo.

[Uncle Shags]

29 minutes ago, aethereal said:

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about, but if you want to explain your thinking here, go for it.

You can tell a lot about a person when they make personal attacks like this.

 

Fine, I will educate you.  DDR makes SR superior to Inv.  Def debuffing enemies (which there a lot of) that will melt Inv will do nothing to SR.  Once SR is above the cap it stays there, getting hit 5% of the time, while Inv defense crumbles.

 

So what does SR do when those 5% of attacks make it through?  According to you I should be "assured" that's still "plenty durable".  You'd have to hope for team heals, or wait for regen, or pop an insp.  Maybe that's good enough for how you play.  But I can assure you that there are times when it's not enough.  But good news!  DM can heal.  250 hp every 3 seconds is not "okayish" and it plugs SRs only hole.

 

Also, much of DMs damage reputation is based on testing with Soul Drain hitting one target.  When it's saturated and perma it's awesome. 

 

OP, go for it if you want.  The combo is great.

[SemanticAntics]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. Since there seems to be a bit of confusion, I'd like to take a moment to clear something up: I'm looking for advice on how to best make use of a character I already have, not how the combination compares to the current meta. I get that it isn't top-tier DPS and that isn't a problem for me. I'm enjoying it and will continue playing it until I either hit 50 or get bored. 

 

Honestly, the only complaint I have right now is the runners. Maybe it's because I spend most of my time playing Tankers, but I seem to be spending a lot of time chasing down runners. Kill-all missions are the bane of my existence right now. But the combination itself runs well. 

[venetiasilver]

10 minutes ago, SemanticAntics said:

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. Since there seems to be a bit of confusion, I'd like to take a moment to clear something up: I'm looking for advice on how to best make use of a character I already have, not how the combination compares to the current meta. I get that it isn't top-tier DPS and that isn't a problem for me. I'm enjoying it and will continue playing it until I either hit 50 or get bored. 

 

Honestly, the only complaint I have right now is the runners. Maybe it's because I spend most of my time playing Tankers, but I seem to be spending a lot of time chasing down runners. Kill-all missions are the bane of my existence right now. But the combination itself runs well. 

Acquire the Taunt from Presence Tree to call back foes. slot an overwhelming Force knockdown proc into Touch of Fear. 

[SemanticAntics]

Oh, I feel dumb. I play solo virtually all the time, so I've become accustomed to ignoring taunt powers. It never occurred to me. Good tip on the knockdown proc! I'll add that.

Edited Sunday at 06:33 PM by SemanticAntics

[SomeGuy]

There haven't been any significant changes that would not make the synergy of these two sets bad.  

 

Shadow Maul is bad. Real bad. Some people argue that it isn't. They're entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it is. Dark Consumption...skippable but still good. I know any time I have personally taken it I've slotted it for an extra AOE attack. Touch of Fear? It used to be skippable but now it's pretty much mandatory. Proc bomb it out and it's REALLY good for AOE damage. Siphon Life...I've seen it slotted for healing. I personally don't agree with this since the base damage is so high on the attack. Each their own. I normally put the ATO2 here.

 

SR? You want everything except maybe the T9. Elude is good, but not necessary if you are soft capped. It's fun. Bout it once you are capped.

 

The two resistance uniques really are good for SR to have. 

 

@Uncle Shags "Also, much of DMs damage reputation is based on testing with Soul Drain hitting one target.  When it's saturated and perma it's awesome."

 

I've actually tested this. Fully saturated soul drain? No. It does not make the set awesome. Makes it, at best, on par with other mediocre sets in terms of performance. Soul Drain needs a serious look at. 

Edited Sunday at 07:14 PM by SomeGuy

[Nightmarer]

DM/SR has not changed much from back on live. They tried to improve Shadow Maul, then pedalled back. Touch of Fear is now an AoE attack, which is neither here or there. DM is amazing as a swiss knife set, unfortunately, the dmg seems, for what I read here, subpar. I personally love the combo, my 1st char ever was a DM/SR scrapper and I don't care much about dealing less dmg than other sets, at the end of the day, this is not WoW.

[Auroxis]

I'm not a fan of resorting to the presence pool to deal with runners. IMO the best way to deal with not having a taunt aura, CC or slows, is having enough burst AoE before too many mobs scatter, and for that I'd recommend Soul Drain+Spring Attack+Epic pool AoE as an opener. SR provides you with tons of recharge so Spring Attack will be up often (it's on the same timer as Soul Drain), and you can use it as a follow-up to Soul Drain which can hold the gauss proc to give you a big burst of AoE. Spring Attack has a 90% proc rate so make sure to utilize that if you choose to go that route.

[Uncle Shags]

Epic ranged attack/snipe is another option for runners.  You have to wait til 35 though.

 

1 hour ago, SomeGuy said:

Siphon Life...I've seen it slotted for healing. I personally don't agree with this since the base damage is so high on the attack.

 

With fancy slotting you can max the heal and the damage.

 

[Auroxis]

6 minutes ago, Uncle Shags said:

Epic ranged attack/snipe is another option for runners.  You have to wait til 35 though.

 

Mu Mastery lets you have both a snipe and a good AoE. As for theme fitting with DM, you can go with black lightning.

[SomeGuy]

6 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:

Epic ranged attack/snipe is another option for runners.  You have to wait til 35 though.

 

 

With fancy slotting you can max the heal and the damage.

 

 

 

I personally have toyed with this before and completely forgot it's a viable option. I forget why I didn't do it, probably something to do with set bonuses. Either way, I know I am going to look at this again for my DM/SD for sure.

 

*yeah. I'm editing it. Before, I had the full ATO2 set in it. Doing this:

 

I only lose 10% recharge and 4% DMG. 

 

 

Thanks for the idea. 

Edited yesterday at 03:19 AM by SomeGuy

[aethereal]

On 7/27/2025 at 9:32 AM, Uncle Shags said:

You can tell a lot about a person when they make personal attacks like this.

 

Y'know, you came in hot from the start, and I get the feeling that you're kinda threatened.

 

On 7/27/2025 at 9:32 AM, Uncle Shags said:

 

Fine, I will educate you.  DDR makes SR superior to Inv.  Def debuffing enemies (which there a lot of) that will melt Inv will do nothing to SR.  Once SR is above the cap it stays there, getting hit 5% of the time, while Inv defense crumbles.

 

So, some warning signs here:  suggesting that you only get hit 5% of the time...  I mean, softcapped defense doesn't mean that.  You get hit 5% of the time by the least important class of enemies that you need to worry the least about.  I get that sometimes people just use that as a shorthand, but I think also people with a poor grasp of the mechanics think it's literally true.

 

In any case, reading between the lines, it sounds like you're treating Invulnerability like it was SR -- like you want to make it a pure defense set -- and then finding it doesn't perform that well as a pure defense set.

 

You are of course correct that Invul is not as good a pure defense set as SR is, but that's neither here nor there.  With invul, you're looking for a nice thick layer of resistances, then getting solid defenses on top, plus maxing your hit points.  Is the defense layer more vulnerable to debuffing than SR's defense layer?  Of course.  But when your defense is debuffed in Invul, you've still got your resistance layer and your hit points, and those aren't vulnerable to debuffing in the same way.

 

If you get targeted with an attack that you're fully softcapped defense to and have Scrapper maxed resistance to, you take 2.5% the normal damage of that attack (as opposed to 10% the damage of that attack when you have softcapped defense and no resistance).  It's okay if some of that defense layer is ablated away after the alpha.

 

And if you do want more mitigation than invul itself provides, the advantage of DM is that it shores up being shy of softcap in a lot of situations.  The way that defense and to-hit debuffs work is that they aren't very powerful if you start from zero defense, they aren't very powerful if you're already at or over softcap, and they multiply strongly in efficiency if you already have 30+ defense but shy of softcap.

 

On 7/27/2025 at 9:32 AM, Uncle Shags said:

 

So what does SR do when those 5% of attacks make it through?  According to you I should be "assured" that's still "plenty durable".  You'd have to hope for team heals, or wait for regen, or pop an insp.  Maybe that's good enough for how you play.  But I can assure you that there are times when it's not enough.  But good news!  DM can heal.  250 hp every 3 seconds is not "okayish" and it plugs SRs only hole.

 

I don't know what to tell you other than yes, passive healing (regeneration plus things like the power transfer proc and so forth) can handle the healing that you need from SR.

 

On 7/27/2025 at 9:32 AM, Uncle Shags said:

Also, much of DMs damage reputation is based on testing with Soul Drain hitting one target.  When it's saturated and perma it's awesome. 

 

This is simply incorrect and is another sign that you don't know very much about what you're speaking very confidently about.  DM with Soul Drain hitting only one target has garbage-tier basement damage.  DM with Soul Drain hitting max targets has mediocre-to-poor damage.

 

And, like, absolutely, the OP should make the character he wants to make.  People don't need to pursue the power combos.  But when he asks for things like slotting and power choice advice, it's a little hard to say what he's looking for here.  Like, if we say, "Lean as heavily as possible into epics, because DM does bad damage," is that cool?  Or is it also a violation of whatever premises he's holding?  I don't know, and my answer is generally just give him the info he needs and let him choose what the constraints are.  I don't mention the way that this is not a particularly good combo because I'm trying to convince the specific OP that he shouldn't pursue it -- god knows I do not only take the best combos -- I just mention it so he can make informed decisions (and so can anyone else who comes across the thread).

Edited 11 hours ago by aethereal

[Uncle Shags]

35 minutes ago, aethereal said:

a lot