Give knock powers a chance to detoggle debuffs

[Uun]

I came up with this idea while I was running a CoT arc on my brute. Most of the CoT spectres and mages run Chill of the Night, a PBAoE aura with a massive tohit debuff. It's a real pain if you don't have resistance to tohit debuffs, since the debuff stacks from different casters. Obviously it will drop if you mezz the caster, but what if it had a chance to drop if you knocked the caster off their feet? This power is a toggle with a 10s recharge, so this would give you a window before it was turned on again. This would also apply to other toggle debuffs like Radiation Infection, Darkest Night, Snow Storm, etc. Not sure what the right % chance would be, but I'm thinking 50%?

[Rudra]

And then when the mobs de-toggle our debuffs with their KB? Everything we can do, the mobs can do.

 

(Edit: When I'm solo on my MMs or Corruptors and all it takes for my debuffs to get de-toggled is for any of the multiple KB-equipped mobs in the faction to hit me with a KB and now my applied debuffs are gone? And as often as I see KB from groups like the Council? I'll never be able to debuff my way to victory again.)

 

Edited Thursday at 10:48 PM by Rudra

[Psyonico]

15 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And then when the mobs de-toggle our debuffs with their KB? Everything we can do, the mobs can do.

Not to mention it would likely be detoggling anything, not just debuffs.

 

I like the idea in theory, but my first thought was the same as @Rudra

[Uun]

Another seemingly good idea dashed with a cold splash of reality.

[Chance Jackson]

I don't know if I'm a fan of the idea or not but since there are often many enemies & potentially only 1 PC why not give the NPCs a far lower chance to detoggle PCs (if at all possible)

[MTeague]

31 minutes ago, Chance Jackson said:

I don't know if I'm a fan of the idea or not but since there are often many enemies & potentially only 1 PC why not give the NPCs a far lower chance to detoggle PCs (if at all possible)

And are you going to let that chance scale up, if there's an equal number of players to foes?

Or if there's just one elite boss against 2 players, will you allow it to have a much better chance to detoggle than the players?

 

The power should have the same effect. Anything we can do with the power, they should be able to do with the same power. 

Heck, I still want enemy mobs to show up using Incarnate Judgements against US....  

[EDIT:  Kheldian/Quantum style. If you have incarnates slotted, your maps will have at least one foe with incarnates]

Edited Friday at 02:03 AM by MTeague

[Wobegone]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

Another seemingly good idea dashed with a cold splash of reality.

 

I've been playing a lot of Baldur's Gate 3 lately, and Concentration is a neat idea for powers in CoH.   Love the idea of ways to break concentration, but, this would be a monumental change to how powers work.  Yea, I still kinda love it, regardless of difficulty of implementation.

[RadiantPhoenix]

17 hours ago, Uun said:

I came up with this idea while I was running a CoT arc on my brute. Most of the CoT spectres and mages run Chill of the Night, a PBAoE aura with a massive tohit debuff. It's a real pain if you don't have resistance to tohit debuffs, since the debuff stacks from different casters. Obviously it will drop if you mezz the caster, but what if it had a chance to drop if you knocked the caster off their feet? This power is a toggle with a 10s recharge, so this would give you a window before it was turned on again. This would also apply to other toggle debuffs like Radiation Infection, Darkest Night, Snow Storm, etc. Not sure what the right % chance would be, but I'm thinking 50%?

Chill of the Night is the Spectral and Death Mage families of CoT, but not the other kinds of Mages.

Also, doesn't high-magnitude Knock already counter this by knocking the source of the aura far enough away that you are no longer in range?

It's only 10 feet, after all.

[Uun]

7 minutes ago, RadiantPhoenix said:

Also, doesn't high-magnitude Knock already counter this by knocking the source of the aura far enough away that you are no longer in range?

It's only 10 feet, after all.

Knocking them out of range isn't useful on a melee AT.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

Knocking them out of range isn't useful on a melee AT.

 

It is if you want the debuff off of you.

 

Also, with the wide availability of KB/KD/KU, this would be a cheap and cheesy tactic for player-controlled nerfing of things that are supposed to present some minimal degree of challenge.  Debuffing foes are supposed to be a threat, not a reason for every character to take Air Superiority.

[Chance Jackson]

On 8/7/2025 at 10:02 PM, MTeague said:

And are you going to let that chance scale up, if there's an equal number of players to foes?

Or if there's just one elite boss against 2 players, will you allow it to have a much better chance to detoggle than the players?

 

The power should have the same effect. Anything we can do with the power, they should be able to do with the same power. 

Heck, I still want enemy mobs to show up using Incarnate Judgements against US....  

[EDIT:  Kheldian/Quantum style. If you have incarnates slotted, your maps will have at least one foe with incarnates]

All good questions, but i dont have any good answers.

 

 

That said if there was some kind incarnate freelancer what should the reward be for beating them?(AVs give automatic SOs)

[srmalloy]

On 8/7/2025 at 3:43 PM, Rudra said:

And then when the mobs de-toggle our debuffs with their KB? Everything we can do, the mobs can do.

Or, carrying it back to the original way things worked, KB along with mezzes detoggle everything -- not just your enemy-affecting toggles, but your friendly-affecting ones like Tactics and Maneuvers... and all your toggle defenses, too, so you can watch your character get mezzed or knocked back and all their defenses drop. Not that I'm seriously suggesting this; the change that made mezzes no longer automatically drop all your toggles was a big step forward. But if you seriously want to be able to turn off toggles with KB, then not only should you be prepared to have that used against you, but mezzes should drop toggles as well.