page 3 [FOCUSED FEEDBACK] Mastermind Archetype Adjustments

[bAss_ackwards]

7 minutes ago, Troo said:

Is there not a better way to go about this?

 

I have no inside information and these are just my thoughts.

 

They've got a set scope and priorities for the release of this update before they take their break/holiday. You're unlikely to see big shakeups or more additions until after they come back, in their next release. Delaying the current MM changes to be more encompassing and complete is also likely not on the table, as it is tied to the difficulty increases. There's more goodies that have been hinted at already. So for now with this current release plan we can enjoy MMs that are a little better while, as they say, the rest cooks in the oven. 👍

[Maelwys]

To add to that: CPH has already stated that there's going to be another patch shortly after Christmas; and that this patch is going to contain a HUGE number of changes.

To clarify: that the devs were concerned that the current MM changes would have been "lost in the crowd" if they'd released everything all at once.
So they pushed them to Open Beta separately to give them a decent chance to get properly tested and refined before the next patch lands and all hell breaks loose.
 

Spoiler

_{((And I'm really not exaggerating... assuming everything proposed goes in as-is it's gonna be utter bedlam... so consider this the calm before the storm!)) 🚒 🚒 👨‍🚒 🔥 🧯}

 

[Runaway]

My 7 cents:

1. Others have suggested the same, but I'm still going to echo it. Don't limit Mastermind ATOs to just pets, but allow them to be slotted into all primary powers that take damage + accuracy IOs. I feel like only allowing masterminds to slot their ATOs into pets, is an artificial limitation that should have never been. The various attack powers in the primary powersets are part of the mastermind toolset and so imo Mastermind ATOs should have been slottable in those from the start (since the modifiers are fully applicable).
2. I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but I would also allow slotting "recharge intensive pets" sets into recharge intensive pets that don't do damage. I'm thinking of Maintenance Drone and Dark Servant, but I'm probably forgetting some. Imo any summon with a long recharge should be able to slot these sets.
3. 50% instead of 40% effectiveness of set bonuses to pets would be a great, if only for the much easier math. 
4. I would let all archetypes enjoy the ..% of set bonuses to pets. Mastermind pets aren't the only pets that have had trouble keeping up with the times.
5. About the various changes to mastermind primaries: I'm not going to post this in every focused feedback thread, so I'm saying it here: Why the slew of changes to Beasts, Demons and Thugs? What problem are those changes trying to solve? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If the desire is to put creative archetype design into this patch, then consider making an entirely new mastermind archetype or focus that creative energy on one of the primaries that everyone thinks is awful.
   1. ps: Beast Mastery has no link to a focused feedback thread.
6. I'm glad that the hp nerfs to the t1 and t2 henchmen are off the table.
7. Personally, rather than doing all these convoluted changes to henchmen levels and stats, I would have considered smoothing out the purple patch nerf table a bit, which would have also helped fresh level 50s when they group with incarnates. The nerfs when going from -4 to -5 (1.6x less effective) and from -5 to -6 (2x less effective) are very harsh and that's the root cause of those changes being needed. But that smoothing out might also break years of content balance since everything has been playtested with the purple patch numbers as they are, so meh, sometimes there's no easy solutions.

[Arbegla]

So with the changes in panel 2 being posted to open beta, how are my fellow MMs feeling about the changes?

[Coyote]

I haven't had a chance to re-plan my builds with the new options to move ATOs to personal attacks, which will free a lot of slots for more damage and damage procs in the pet attacks, but I'm pretty excited to test these out... Bots/EA was able to solo Kronos Titan (hard) and Winter Lord (not very) before these, so increasing the set bonuses from 40% to 50% will help defense a bit, and freeing up enhancement slots will help offense.

No idea about the stealth/defense changes... this will be great for re-summoning midfight and having the henchmen less likely to get clobbered before I get to buff them, but that wasn't really a major issue or else the fight wasn't really winnable in any case. It feels more like a "nice to have". Lowered End costs on MM attacks is nice, though, as they've gotten more reason to see use.
Overall, MMs feel like they will be a lot better in most of the content, especially soloing. Not sure, however, if it will solve some basic problems regarding their utility in high-end content, and I don't know if that's really fixable since they are a pet class and that has some unique challenges in some situations. So... thumbs up overall, but maybe a "meh" for situations where they felt undesirable rather than just subpar.

[Maelwys]

Regarding the new stuff...

+ Beast Summoning powerset buffs? Nice.
+ Endurance Cost Reduction? Yay.
+ Henchmen temporary high +Defence/Stealth buffs after summoning? Excellent.
+ Henchmen teleportation from outside Supremacy range on an instant timer? Fantastic.
+ Set bonus sharing going from 40% to 50%? Yay. Every bit of global +Accuracy benefits the T1s; and it makes henchmen KB protection line up much more nicely (see here). 
+ The bulk of the ATO aura effects being shifted off the ATOs and into Supremacy? Great - now I never need to even consider slotting Command of the Mastermind again!
+ Henchmen having Movement (and Stealth) buffs outside of Supremacy? Yay. Combined with the teleporting it's enabled MM henchmen to "Stealth" through missions.
+ Henchmen having -Perception debuffs outside of Supremacy? Meh, but understandable given the +Stealth buffs. It makes setting up "point defence" spots trickier.
+ Mastermind Personal Attacks taking ATOs? This one's massive. Even freeing up one enhancement slot from my Mercs, Bots and Ninja summons is ridiculously valuable.

There are certainly still issues. T1 henchmen hit rates being the major one for me, personally.
Suffice to say that the devs haven't forgotten about that one though (I can be rather persistent!)

Also... what's on Open Beta right now is a BIIIIIG lump of changes; but most of it wasn't originally aimed at MMs specifically (that was the even-level pet stuff; which was intentionally brought forward so that it could be seen + fully tested by a wider audience without getting "lost" in all the noise). Meaning the above list; whilst nice; is mainly just whatever other MM bits the powers team could implement comparatively quickly and/or squeeze in before Christmas. So expect to see more MM-relevant changes in future patches before they consider the AT "fixed for now".

[gameboy1234]

8 hours ago, Arbegla said:

So with the changes in panel 2 being posted to open beta, how are my fellow MMs feeling about the changes?

 

Making the T1 summon also Teleport is kinda weird, imo.  It feels expedient rather than thought out.  What about making Supremacy into a click power?  Make it do everything now as a passive, and also if you click it it brings your pets to you?  That might be just a bit more "user friendly" to make teleporting your henchmen a separate power and not make the T1 henchmen summon also a teleport.  Could also just add a new power / macro  to do the same thing.

 

Not a priority, just something for future consideration.

 

 

[tidge]

I can't check on beta now,  But it felt like that Group Fly + Fly + Evasive Maneuvers seemed to have its flight speed reduced, unlike currently on live. Specifically.. it felt like toggling on Group Fly slowed down the MM, untoggling it and flight speed was as expected.